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Colangelo's extension being blocked, referred to as a "product of nepotism"

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  • #16
    Balls of Steel wrote: View Post
    As a teacher, I take exception to your initial thinking. Say you work for a company that wastes your hard earned money (stock options and pension contributions) on financial ventures that fail, would you be happy about it? Yes, the teachers pension fund is exactly that - a fund that is managed and invested in several ventures, in this case, the MLSE. Sports is a business and no business wants to lose money. That said, in order for businesses to not lose money, you have to manage your assets and spend wisely on players that one thinks will be a good fit with the team. As they say, "if you build it, they will come."

    Not renewing BC's contract is not motivated by the bottom line but rather the return on investment (this time his salary), as it is not yielding the appropriate return. You are correct, the teacher's pension fund does not care about the basketball end of things, they don't have to. That's the job of MLSE.

    MLSE profits from basketball operations have actually gone up since Colangelo took over. Based on the teacher's pension funds' penchant for profits, they have all the motivation in the world to retain Mr. Colangelo. However, the reality is that the continued losing and the seemingly bleak competitive landscape (the strength of the Eastern Division) is making its investors think twice about his directions. Money is coming in now but if this continues, financial and sporting losses will pile up. Wouldn't you jump ship too if you knew that you're initial investment is about to hit rock bottom? Wouldn't you sell while you're still up?
    Unfortunately, sport teams are not a business and is a hobby and about winning imo. If the Teachers Pension want a business or an investment with profits - the stock and real estate markets are financially viable options imo.

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    • #17
      albertan_10 wrote: View Post
      What mess? The young group that wants to improve? The players who actually like the city? The players who play with heart? You must be watching something else. Sure the win loss is bad right now but we all saw it coming. BC did absolutely everything he could to try to get Bosh to stay around and lucked out (offer to overpay Trevor ariza that summer, remember that?). Not his fault. Got turkuglu who we loved until he forgot how to play ball. BCs fault? No. He did what made sense and it didn't work out. How about this season? He wasn't setting us up to tank by trying to acquire Chandler, Diaw and Matt Barnes. He anted to be competitive. Things didn't work out and when he saw a team headed towards 25-30 wins he sent off JJ and started the youth movement. It's not a mess. He has actually done a good job when you consider everything that has fallen through. To call it a mess is absurd. The goal now is to win long term and not just next year.
      The mess Raptor4Ever is talking about is no superstar, pieces that don't fit, a soft and an abysmal defensive team - now that is a mess imo!

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      • #18
        smushmush wrote: View Post
        Unfortunately, sport teams are not a business and is a hobby and about winning imo. If the Teachers Pension want a business or an investment with profits - the stock and real estate markets are financially viable options imo.
        The MLSE has been profitable for the fund. I just think that they're getting out while they're ahead. Let's also not rule out the possibility that they're only getting out now since Rogers seems to have the necessary capital needed for the sale of the TPF's share to go through. Without a doubt, if the sale goes through that the fund will move it's investments elsewhere and I wouldn't doubt that it be in stock and real estate markets (which they have anyway - just more of it now).

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        • #19
          smushmush wrote: View Post
          If he makes a bad pick as a resentment of not being re-upped, BC spoils his reputation as a class act to prospective employers if he is fired.
          Yes, no professional who wants to work in the league again would purposely draft some nobody just to spite the team.

          smushmush wrote: View Post
          Imo, BC should make the right pick and be a class act like Kevin Pritchard (notice teams are still interested in Kevin. Why? It is because he left as a class act even after being fired on draft day by making the right pick in the draft).
          Class act like Kevin Pritchard? Seriously? You say he made "the right pick the draft." Says who? You? How are you so certain he made the same pick he would have had he received an extension? Nothing but speculation, and it's funny you're so quick to use the words "class act" after what happened in Portland. Was he a class act when he undermined the Trailblazer's position during Roy's contract talks? Was he a class act when he whined to everyone who would listen about how he should be paid more than Nate McMillan? You suggest, "notice teams are still interested in Kevin [...]", when one could just as easily infer the opposite. Notice how despite his excellent track record as a GM, teams are only "interested" and haven't offered him a job? Lord knows there's a lot of teams that could use a GM of his caliber right now.

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          • #20
            smushmush wrote: View Post
            Why are you surprised about an accountant opposing him even if the team is profitable for now ? Imo, if we are looking at the attendance record which has been abysmal (did BC really think Toronto Raptors fans are like Maple Leafs fans that watch losing and misery? Guess what Toronto Raptors fans are not like that.). The financial vibrancy of a non-lottery team for a long time a la the Clippers especially if the Raptors don't make the playoffs 3 seasons after this one (which is more likely to happen under a BC extension imo) is horrible to think of, could likely lead to losses and that is clearly the job of an accountant which is to decide whether a business a la the Toronto Raptors is financially vibrant or not. Nobody loves a loser and supports a loser, making the playoffs every year (3 teams in each conference are guaranteed the playoffs as contenders and 5 more spots are up for grabs in each conference by 12 teams - that is good odds of making the 5 spots to me imo) should not be hard to do imo. My 2 cents.
            You forget one thing. He's an ACCOUNTANT, not a basketball executive. His expertise is in looking at the dollars and cents, and not in speculating on whether DeRozen, Davis, Johnson, etc. are sufficient as the core of a winning team one day down the road. The only reason why you think he's right is because you're viewing his analysis through your own biased view of the team's prospects, just the same as I think he's wrong in his analysis because I'm not as negative. It's no more ridiculous for him to hold up the decision based on his basketball prowess as it is for him to hold off on letting BC go (if the board was leaning the opposite way) for the same reason. It's no more ridiculous than for one of us, picked at random, to have our opinion be treated as gold. If the organization was run poorly from a financial standpoint, then sure, that's sufficient reason, but there's no evidence of this thus far.

            Moreover, you seem to suggest that Toronto fans would be sufficiently satisfied by a bottom-seeded playoff team. Yes, making one of the 5 remaining spots out of the 12 remaining teams isn't that hard -- heck, why don't we just say that 8/15 aren't exactly long odds. If Silvestri's stance mirrors yours, then even more reason not to respect his "evaluation".

            I'm not going to say the team is better off without Bosh. From a talent and resource standpoint, of course it isn't. Whenever you lose an all-star for essentially nothing, your team is going to take a hit. We certainly aren't even in the best position for a rebuild -- we don't have an obvious franchise player already in the fold -- but we are in a position for a rebuild. Considering how the team had already topped out in 2006-2007, we should welcome this and reject the notion we would rather have continued as a fringe playoff team. Is it hard to be one of the top 8 teams in the conference? No. Is it hard to be one of the top 4 teams in the conference? Yes, and that's where we want to be.

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            • #21
              albertan_10 wrote: View Post
              What mess? The young group that wants to improve? The players who actually like the city? The players who play with heart? You must be watching something else. Sure the win loss is bad right now but we all saw it coming. BC did absolutely everything he could to try to get Bosh to stay around and lucked out (offer to overpay Trevor ariza that summer, remember that?). Not his fault. Got turkuglu who we loved until he forgot how to play ball. BCs fault? No. He did what made sense and it didn't work out. How about this season? He wasn't setting us up to tank by trying to acquire Chandler, Diaw and Matt Barnes. He anted to be competitive. Things didn't work out and when he saw a team headed towards 25-30 wins he sent off JJ and started the youth movement. It's not a mess. He has actually done a good job when you consider everything that has fallen through. To call it a mess is absurd. The goal now is to win long term and not just next year.
              What flavor is your Kool-Aid?

              Comment


              • #22
                How can it be said that Silvestri is talking as an accountant simply because he is one? He could be a fan as well and disagrees with moves or philosophy. A lot of opinions here (including my own).

                Comment


                • #23
                  smushmush wrote: View Post
                  If he makes a bad pick as a resentment of not being re-upped, BC spoils his reputation as a class act to prospective employers if he is fired. Imo, BC should make the right pick and be a class act like Kevin Pritchard (notice teams are still interested in Kevin. Why? It is because he left as a class act even after being fired on draft day by making the right pick in the draft).
                  Guys it doesn't mean he picks a nobody but say doesn't pick Barnes or something and instead picks Josh Selby or even Terrence Jones (who I previously wanted but character and basketball IQ is below that of Barnes) or say Donatas for a Bargs 2.0. There are a handful of lottery picks who would not be a fit for this team but could arguably be a pick made.

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                  • #24
                    Remember that old saying, "Money is the root of all evil." Well, you can see this statement come ture in the way things are run by OTPP. Why would you let a bean counter named Silvestri stand in the way of resigning BC? Yes, he's made errors. But you know what, when you look at all of the moves he has made, on paper they pretty much all made sense. Was it his fault that: Kapono was a bum, Jermaine O'Neal picked when he wanted to play, Turkoglu was a bum, and Bosh wasn't honest with him? That's the fault of the players more than the GM. Since Bosh left and BC has been building the team his way, we are slowly beginning to see the beginning of something good. This summer is so critical to the future of the Raptors. A top 5 pick, cap space, the Bosh trade exemption, and an upcoming hard cap has put this team in a real nice position, thanks to BC. Here's a suggestion. If the majority of people on the site want to see BC continue the rebuild of our beloved Raptors, what would you think of expressing our thoughts to MLSE and perhaps getting a petition going to get BC resigned? Any thoughts?

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                    • #25
                      jd4 wrote: View Post
                      Remember that old saying, "Money is the root of all evil." Well, you can see this statement come ture in the way things are run by OTPP. Why would you let a bean counter named Silvestri stand in the way of resigning BC? Yes, he's made errors. But you know what, when you look at all of the moves he has made, on paper they pretty much all made sense. Was it his fault that: Kapono was a bum, Jermaine O'Neal picked when he wanted to play, Turkoglu was a bum, and Bosh wasn't honest with him? That's the fault of the players more than the GM. Since Bosh left and BC has been building the team his way, we are slowly beginning to see the beginning of something good. This summer is so critical to the future of the Raptors. A top 5 pick, cap space, the Bosh trade exemption, and an upcoming hard cap has put this team in a real nice position, thanks to BC. Here's a suggestion. If the majority of people on the site want to see BC continue the rebuild of our beloved Raptors, what would you think of expressing our thoughts to MLSE and perhaps getting a petition going to get BC resigned? Any thoughts?
                      Except the site is split in wanting Colangelo gone or renewed.

                      ADD: and MLSE won't care what the fans want, just what they will pay for.

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                      • #26
                        Maleko wrote: View Post
                        Except the site is split in wanting Colangelo gone or renewed.

                        ADD: and MLSE won't care what the fans want, just what they will pay for.
                        Split? I think those who want him gone out number those who want him to stay - lol.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          "I’m not saying owner Herb Simon won’t try to re-enlist Bird, though that’s a distinct possibility. Should an offer be extended, however, it definitely won’t be remotely near the $5 million he will have banked for eight straight seasons — more like $1 million, tops, per year for three or four"
                          http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/knick...o6cGcoKHA2dzLO

                          For all the crap BC gets for his salary/contract and results, imagine paying Bird $5M per season for the last 8 years.

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                          • #28
                            What I'm wondering, is how many people just Googled what Nepotism is?

                            Let BC finish this. I think he's on to something.

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                            • #29
                              How can it be said that Silvestri is talking as an accountant simply because he is one? He could be a fan as well and disagrees with moves or philosophy. A lot of opinions here (including my own).
                              Either way (accountant or fan) he has no background with which to make a sports management decision. It's not his area of expertise. It's like someone who's never held a hammer telling a carpenter, "sh*t, man, your handiwork sucks. I can tell this house is going to fall down just by looking at it."

                              I sure as hell don't want a "fan" making any important decisions about the Toronto Raptors.
                              Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

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                              • #30
                                Quixotic wrote: View Post
                                Yes, no professional who wants to work in the league again would purposely draft some nobody just to spite the team.



                                Class act like Kevin Pritchard? Seriously? You say he made "the right pick the draft." Says who? You? How are you so certain he made the same pick he would have had he received an extension? Nothing but speculation, and it's funny you're so quick to use the words "class act" after what happened in Portland. Was he a class act when he undermined the Trailblazer's position during Roy's contract talks? Was he a class act when he whined to everyone who would listen about how he should be paid more than Nate McMillan? You suggest, "notice teams are still interested in Kevin [...]", when one could just as easily infer the opposite. Notice how despite his excellent track record as a GM, teams are only "interested" and haven't offered him a job? Lord knows there's a lot of teams that could use a GM of his caliber right now.
                                Imo, he made the right draft pick in the draft at that number outside the lottery - Luke Babbitt is as tough as nails and has an headstart advantage over other NBA players because of that. All Babbitt needs to do is put the tools together, get in the gym, shoot some midrange shots consistently and learn to rebound with the added weight. Yeah, he is a third string SF on a team built for the playoffs (but who would not be with freakish long arms Nicolas Batum starting and uber-athletic and another tough as nails player in Gerald Wallace) but he will also have another advantage rookies except superstar rookies don't get - play in the playoffs. I think Luke Babbitt, Larry Sanders, Ed Davis and Paul George will be special players out of the last draft as long as they have a desire to improve their game. "Nuff said.

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