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Colangelo's extension being blocked, referred to as a "product of nepotism"

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  • #31
    Quixotic wrote: View Post
    You forget one thing. He's an ACCOUNTANT, not a basketball executive. His expertise is in looking at the dollars and cents, and not in speculating on whether DeRozen, Davis, Johnson, etc. are sufficient as the core of a winning team one day down the road. The only reason why you think he's right is because you're viewing his analysis through your own biased view of the team's prospects, just the same as I think he's wrong in his analysis because I'm not as negative. It's no more ridiculous for him to hold up the decision based on his basketball prowess as it is for him to hold off on letting BC go (if the board was leaning the opposite way) for the same reason. It's no more ridiculous than for one of us, picked at random, to have our opinion be treated as gold. If the organization was run poorly from a financial standpoint, then sure, that's sufficient reason, but there's no evidence of this thus far.

    Moreover, you seem to suggest that Toronto fans would be sufficiently satisfied by a bottom-seeded playoff team. Yes, making one of the 5 remaining spots out of the 12 remaining teams isn't that hard -- heck, why don't we just say that 8/15 aren't exactly long odds. If Silvestri's stance mirrors yours, then even more reason not to respect his "evaluation".

    I'm not going to say the team is better off without Bosh. From a talent and resource standpoint, of course it isn't. Whenever you lose an all-star for essentially nothing, your team is going to take a hit. We certainly aren't even in the best position for a rebuild -- we don't have an obvious franchise player already in the fold -- but we are in a position for a rebuild. Considering how the team had already topped out in 2006-2007, we should welcome this and reject the notion we would rather have continued as a fringe playoff team. Is it hard to be one of the top 8 teams in the conference? No. Is it hard to be one of the top 4 teams in the conference? Yes, and that's where we want to be.
    Hey, baby steps bro , baby steps - all I'm saying is that the Top 3 spots in each conference are for contenders(yeah, it will be cool to get them but that is most likely after we have made the playoffs 2 straight years before we can think of that - stop putting the cart before the horse (see OKC at 8th spot last season and 4th spot this season for evidence)) but I am content with a playoff spot outside the Top 3 even if we go out in the first round again as long as it is in 6 games imo (and I believe other fans in Toronto that has not seen a playoff team in 3 years (but Maple Leafs is in a fight of their lives to bring the needed playoffs to sad Toronto fans) will be okay with making the big dance every year even if it is a relatively short one - just look at the Portland Trailblazers for evidence - never passed the first round but made the playoffs 3 years straight (going 4-5 years?) and they have the rabid and most loudest fans because of it. Nobody wants to support a loser (except only if you are an Arsenal fan , low blow right? just kidding ). My 2 cents.).
    Last edited by smushmush; Sun Mar 13, 2011, 01:30 PM.

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    • #32
      smushmush wrote: View Post
      Hey, baby steps bro , baby steps - all I'm saying is that the Top 3 spots in each conference are for contenders(yeah, it will be cool to get them but that is most likely after we have made the playoffs 2 straight years before we can think of that - stop putting the cart before the horse (see OKC at 8th spot last season and 4th spot this season for evidence)) but I am content with a playoff spot outside the Top 3 even if we go out in the first round again as long as it is in 6 games imo (and I believe other fans in Toronto that has not seen a playoff team in 3 years (but Maple Leafs is in a fight of their lives to bring the needed playoffs to sad Toronto fans) will be okay with making the big dance every year even if it is a relatively short one - just look at the Portland Trailblazers for evidence - never passed the first round but made the playoffs 3 years straight (going 4-5 years?) and they have the rabid and most loudest fans because of it. Nobody wants to support a loser (except only if you are an Arsenal fan , low blow right? just kidding ). My 2 cents.).
      The POR example shows the clear lack of patience and hypocricy Raptors fans currently have. POR did go through a rebuild to get where they are now, they had a horrible team with a horrible reputation (Jail Blazers) before this, and did in fact lose the support of the community for a few seasons (rightfully so with all the on and off court disappointments).

      Here is POR's record over the last number of years:

      2009-10 Portland 50 32 .610 3rd Northwest Division 2 4 .333 Lost West Conf 1st Rd
      2008-09 Portland 54 28 .659 2nd Northwest Division 2 4 .333 Lost West Conf 1st Rd
      2007-08 Portland 41 41 .500 3rd Northwest Division - - - DNQ
      2006-07 Portland 32 50 .390 3rd Northwest Division - - - DNQ
      2005-06 Portland 21 61 .256 5th Northwest Division - - - DNQ
      2004-05 Portland 27 55 .329 4th Northwest Division - - - DNQ
      2003-04 Portland 41 41 .500 3rd Pacific Division - - - DNQ
      2002-03 Portland 50 32 .610 2nd Pacific Division 3 4 .429 Lost West Conf 1st Rd
      2001-02 Portland 49 33 .598 3rd Pacific Division 0 3 .000 Lost West Conf 1st Rd
      Compare POR's recent history with TOR's:

      2009-10 Toronto 40 42 .488 2nd Atlantic Division - - - DNQ
      2008-09 Toronto 33 49 .402 4th Atlantic Division - - - DNQ
      2007-08 Toronto 41 41 .500 2nd Atlantic Division 1 4 .200 Lost East Conf 1st Rd
      2006-07 Toronto 47 35 .573 1st Atlantic Division 2 4 .333 Lost East Conf 1st Rd
      Using this as a template, TOR is in 2006. POR had 2 more lottery seasons before they qualified again in 2009.

      Since OKC and Presti is also another example frequently used, here is their recent history:

      2009-10 OK City 50 32 .610 4th Northwest Division 2 4 .333 Lost West Conf 1st Rd
      2008-09 OK City 23 59 .280 5th Northwest Division - - - DNQ
      2007-08 Seattle 20 62 .244 5th Northwest Division - - - DNQ
      2006-07 Seattle 31 51 .378 5th Northwest Division - - - DNQ
      2005-06 Seattle 35 47 .427 3rd Northwest Division - - - DNQ
      2004-05 Seattle 52 30 .634 1st Northwest Division 6 5 .545 Lost West Conf Semis
      2003-04 Seattle 37 45 .451 4th Pacific Division - - - DNQ
      2002-03 Seattle 40 42 .488 5th Pacific Division - - - DNQ
      2001-02 Seattle 45 37 .549 4th Pacific Division 2 3 .400 Lost West Conf 1st Rd
      2000-01 Seattle 44 38 .537 5th Pacific Division - - - DNQ
      1999-00 Seattle 45 37 .549 4th Pacific Division 2 3 .400 Lost West Conf 1st Rd
      1998-99 * Seattle 25 25 .500 5th Pacific Division - - - DNQ
      To build a competitive team properly, suffering is involved. Raptors fans want a winning franchise but they do not want to go through the steps necessary to get there. Even the most ideal situations that fans/posters claim to desire (OKC and POR) took years to build - expecially a team like OKC.

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      • #33
        This is the dumbest thing I've read in a while. Are you kidding me? Blocked by an accountant? What the hell does this guy know about basketball? How could he think he's qualified to make such a call? What I think personally is that somebody leaked this out of frustration to make this guy look like an moron and put heat on him. Which, based on the facts presented, wasn't difficult to accomplish. This makes the organization look bad. I can't believe this crap...

        Bottom line, the time to axe Colangelo came and went. By the time they'd be ready to make a move now to finalize the hiring of a new GM we would be just weeks away from the draft. Last time that happened the team had just signed Babcock and the guy, not having sufficient time to prep for the draft, ended up taking Hoffa in the lotto and set the team back even further. Babcock takes a lot of heat for that pick and so he should but it was also a product of the board running the business in the same way this is being handled.

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        • #34
          Actually, futher to post #32 above, here is the Raptors longer history going back to Glenn Grunwald days.

          2009-10 Toronto 40 42 .488 2nd Atlantic Division - - - DNQ
          2008-09 Toronto 33 49 .402 4th Atlantic Division - - - DNQ
          2007-08 Toronto 41 41 .500 2nd Atlantic Division 1 4 .200 Lost East Conf 1st Rd
          2006-07 Toronto 47 35 .573 1st Atlantic Division 2 4 .333 Lost East Conf 1st Rd
          2005-06 Toronto 27 55 .329 4th Atlantic Division - - - DNQ
          2004-05 Toronto 33 49 .402 4th Atlantic Division - - - DNQ
          2003-04 Toronto 33 49 .402 6th Central Division - - - DNQ
          2002-03 Toronto 24 58 .293 7th Central Division - - - DNQ
          2001-02 Toronto 42 40 .512 3rd Central Division 2 3 .400 Lost East Conf 1st Rd
          Before BC showed up the Raps had suffered 24, 33, 33, and 27 wins seasons and had not made the playoffs in 4 years. Those four years yielded just one decent decent player: RuPaul. Araujo, Charlie V, and Joey Graham were the other stellar finds (Charlie was slotted in the teens and they already had Bosh).
          Last edited by mcHAPPY; Sun Mar 13, 2011, 03:03 PM.

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          • #35
            Matt52 wrote: View Post
            I'd agree. I would like a shorter deal with less money but, agree or not, many feel he is one of the better in the league.

            I think the swinging for the fences was a result of having a max player under contract and the pressure of having to win at all costs to keep said max player around.

            The rebuild takes away the sense of urgency in having moves/deals pay immediate dividends. Moves can be made looking 1-2 seasons down the road versus now.

            I really like the future of the team right now. Draft day may increase or decrease that optimism as much of it is hinging on that fateful night.
            MY thoughts exactly. BryCo needs a season or two to truly prove he can build a team completely on his own terms, not with gay ass bosh free agency in the back of his mind. My best prediction would be a 3yr deal somewhere in the 10mil range....Hopefully he gets this extension though again he's put the raptors in a good position.

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            • #36
              Apollo wrote: View Post
              This is the dumbest thing I've read in a while. Are you kidding me? Blocked by an accountant? What the hell does this guy know about basketball? How could he think he's qualified to make such a call? What I think personally is that somebody leaked this out of frustration to make this guy look like an moron and put heat on him. Which, based on the facts presented, wasn't difficult to accomplish. This makes the organization look bad. I can't believe this crap...

              Bottom line, the time to axe Colangelo came and went. By the time they'd be ready to make a move now to finalize the hiring of a new GM we would be just weeks away from the draft. Last time that happened the team had just signed Babcock and the guy, not having sufficient time to prep for the draft, ended up taking Hoffa in the lotto and set the team back even further. Babcock takes a lot of heat for that pick and so he should but it was also a product of the board running the business in the same way this is being handled.
              Couldn't they possibly use Embry again for a stop-gap until they find smeone a long term solution?

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              • #37
                Apollo wrote: View Post
                This is the dumbest thing I've read in a while. Are you kidding me? Blocked by an accountant? What the hell does this guy know about basketball? How could he think he's qualified to make such a call? What I think personally is that somebody leaked this out of frustration to make this guy look like an moron and put heat on him. Which, based on the facts presented, wasn't difficult to accomplish. This makes the organization look bad. I can't believe this crap...

                Bottom line, the time to axe Colangelo came and went. By the time they'd be ready to make a move now to finalize the hiring of a new GM we would be just weeks away from the draft. Last time that happened the team had just signed Babcock and the guy, not having sufficient time to prep for the draft, ended up taking Hoffa in the lotto and set the team back even further. Babcock takes a lot of heat for that pick and so he should but it was also a product of the board running the business in the same way this is being handled.
                I believe you have it right Apollo. This nepotism criticism is bushleague (if true). That is making a business/basketball decision a personal one. No room for that in my view.

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                • #38
                  i kind of find it a bit humorous how so many on here are disgusted that an ACCOUNTANT is holding up a basketball-related decision. of course, no one who posts on here is involved in professional basketball in any capacity other than 'fan,' and yet no one here hesitates in the least in letting others know how they think basketball-related decisions should be made. why is it that we think that our own opinions as fans are more important than the opinion of someone who's responsible for managing billion$ in assets, one of which is a pro bball team? before we deride this person as a back-room peon, maybe try to find out the whole story...or wait for it to come out.

                  the way i read it, it's not as though he's 'blocking' the decision to re-up BC, but rather, he's one of the few lap dogs who's not comfortable with falling in line with what the board says re. BC (essentially, that they're infatuated with him).

                  appollo - what do YOU know about basketball? what is it about your personal involvement with the NBA that makes you some kind of authority on someone who - by your tone - you have no knowledge about whatsoever?
                  TRUE LOVE - Sometimes you know it the instant you see it across the bar.

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                  • #39
                    albertan_10 wrote: View Post
                    What mess? The young group that wants to improve? The players who actually like the city? The players who play with heart? You must be watching something else. Sure the win loss is bad right now but we all saw it coming. BC did absolutely everything he could to try to get Bosh to stay around and lucked out (offer to overpay Trevor ariza that summer, remember that?). Not his fault. Got turkuglu who we loved until he forgot how to play ball. BCs fault? No. He did what made sense and it didn't work out. How about this season? He wasn't setting us up to tank by trying to acquire Chandler, Diaw and Matt Barnes. He anted to be competitive. Things didn't work out and when he saw a team headed towards 25-30 wins he sent off JJ and started the youth movement. It's not a mess. He has actually done a good job when you consider everything that has fallen through. To call it a mess is absurd. The goal now is to win long term and not just next year.
                    This..is common sense, right here. I co-sign.
                    The NBA Larry O'Brien Trophy's 'Big Decision': "This is hard..(smiling)...but..I've decided to take my talents to North Texas, to join The Dallas Mavericks.


                    "My Gladiator verses VS. what ya verse says"--Adversaree
                    Check out my song "Beat Fighter 2010" (prod. by Pete Cannon)
                    www.myspace.com/adversareeteamfresh
                    http://www.youtube.com/user/adversaree
                    http://twitter.com/#!/GiftOfSpeech (Twitter)

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                    • #40
                      jd4 wrote: View Post
                      Remember that old saying, "Money is the root of all evil." Well, you can see this statement come ture in the way things are run by OTPP. Why would you let a bean counter named Silvestri stand in the way of resigning BC? Yes, he's made errors. But you know what, when you look at all of the moves he has made, on paper they pretty much all made sense. Was it his fault that: Kapono was a bum, Jermaine O'Neal picked when he wanted to play, Turkoglu was a bum, and Bosh wasn't honest with him? That's the fault of the players more than the GM. Since Bosh left and BC has been building the team his way, we are slowly beginning to see the beginning of something good. This summer is so critical to the future of the Raptors. A top 5 pick, cap space, the Bosh trade exemption, and an upcoming hard cap has put this team in a real nice position, thanks to BC. Here's a suggestion. If the majority of people on the site want to see BC continue the rebuild of our beloved Raptors, what would you think of expressing our thoughts to MLSE and perhaps getting a petition going to get BC resigned? Any thoughts?
                      Dude, just say the word!!!! flyfresh416@gmail.com...Holla!!! Enough is enough. I'm sick of instability and people trying to talk all fancy with stats like you can measure love of the game with stats. FOH. JD4, jus' holla at me, bro and let's get shit poppin', real talk.
                      The NBA Larry O'Brien Trophy's 'Big Decision': "This is hard..(smiling)...but..I've decided to take my talents to North Texas, to join The Dallas Mavericks.


                      "My Gladiator verses VS. what ya verse says"--Adversaree
                      Check out my song "Beat Fighter 2010" (prod. by Pete Cannon)
                      www.myspace.com/adversareeteamfresh
                      http://www.youtube.com/user/adversaree
                      http://twitter.com/#!/GiftOfSpeech (Twitter)

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                      • #41
                        jimmie wrote: View Post
                        Either way (accountant or fan) he has no background with which to make a sports management decision. It's not his area of expertise. It's like someone who's never held a hammer telling a carpenter, "sh*t, man, your handiwork sucks. I can tell this house is going to fall down just by looking at it."

                        I sure as hell don't want a "fan" making any important decisions about the Toronto Raptors.
                        Co-sign.
                        The NBA Larry O'Brien Trophy's 'Big Decision': "This is hard..(smiling)...but..I've decided to take my talents to North Texas, to join The Dallas Mavericks.


                        "My Gladiator verses VS. what ya verse says"--Adversaree
                        Check out my song "Beat Fighter 2010" (prod. by Pete Cannon)
                        www.myspace.com/adversareeteamfresh
                        http://www.youtube.com/user/adversaree
                        http://twitter.com/#!/GiftOfSpeech (Twitter)

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                        • #42
                          joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
                          What I'm wondering, is how many people just Googled what Nepotism is?

                          Let BC finish this. I think he's on to something.
                          Really? Well in Arsenalist's thread on the front page it's 70% - 30% to keep him. With 75 votes in.
                          -Tim W.

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                          • #43
                            bloodyhandedgod wrote: View Post
                            Really? Well in Arsenalist's thread on the front page it's 70% - 30% to keep him. With 75 votes in.
                            I think you meant to quote this...
                            Matt52 wrote:
                            Split? I think those who want him gone out number those who want him to stay - lol.

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                            • #44
                              joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
                              I think you meant to quote this...
                              No, I was surprised at your comment. Thought you were in the camp that he should not be rehired.
                              -Tim W.

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                              • #45
                                Bc is doing the right things at the moment I am happy with him. I can understand questioning bc record as a gm but I don't think he is the problem ATM.

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