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  • True Rebuild or Win Now

    Lately I've been debating the merits of doing a true rebuild vs. trading some of our young talent to make us a good team next year. I was curious what others at the Republic might think so i decided to frame the question this way: If we could take all but one of our young players (DD, Amir, Ed, Bargs, Bayless, etc...) and picks and trade them to bring back two borderline all-star type guys would you do it? Think of a combination like Josh Smith and Monta Ellis or Al Jefferson and Danny granger, guys who are not franchise players but who are still very very good.
    "Victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory however long and hard the road may be; for without victory, there is no survival."

    -Churchill

  • #2
    Why would you want two borderline all-stars when there's gonna be teams with at least 2-3 true all-stars/superstars that won't even win a championship? The only two on our team I truly care to keep are DeMar and Ed. I still say stick with the all-out rebuild if that's the plan right now. The draft pick this year could turn into something special and I'd feel alright going forward with that player along with the two aforementioned.
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    • #3
      True rebuild hands down. We can't even pull off a "win now" anyways, no stars want to come here.

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      • #4
        RaptorsFan4Life wrote: View Post
        True rebuild hands down. We can't even pull off a "win now" anyways, no stars want to come here.
        We would be trading for guys, not signing them so it doesn't matter that no one wants to be here. Not that I believe that that is true anyway.

        Why would you want two borderline all-stars when there's gonna be teams with at least 2-3 true all-stars/superstars that won't even win a championship?
        The argument would be that we have no idea if the guys we have now will lead us to the promised land and that getting some guys that are already good could speed things up and maybe convince a big named free agent to come here. Additionally it would make us start winning, would is always nice.
        I tend to agree that we should stick with a rebuild, but then I think Demar is a future all-star, Ed is going to be KG good, and secretly still hope that Bargs can get his act together.
        "Victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory however long and hard the road may be; for without victory, there is no survival."

        -Churchill

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        • #5
          Unhappy stars won't play to their potential and would complete throw the team chemistry out the window. That would be retarded if we traded for guys who don't want to be here.

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          • #6
            Trading for a borderline All-Star or two would doom the team to mediocrity and depress the crap out of me (okay, I wouldn't actually get depressed, but you get my point).
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            • #7
              Finding the pieces that fit is the major issue here, I mean look at GS they have 2 borderline all stars in Monta and Curry as well as the Clippers in B.Griffin and E Gordon and they have trouble winning.

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              • #8
                If it's win now, we'd just be back to square one with Bosh: Winning 40 games each year, and if we're lucky win a playoff game.

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                • #9
                  I think I'll play some devil's advocate here.

                  RaptorsFan4Life wrote: View Post
                  Unhappy stars won't play to their potential and would complete throw the team chemistry out the window. That would be retarded if we traded for guys who don't want to be here.
                  Just because we may not be the first choice on someone's list of places to play does not mean they would be unhappy to be here. I'm not talking about trading for Alonzo Mourning again where we get a guy who refuses to play for us, I'm talking about trading for guys playing for fringe contenders that would likely welcome the chance to come to a market like Toronto and make a name for them self.

                  Trading for a borderline All-Star or two would doom the team to mediocrity and depress the crap out of me (okay, I wouldn't actually get depressed, but you get my point).
                  Tim W.

                  There is a flaw to this logic. Pau Gasol, Ron Artest, and Lamar Odom are all guys who were borderline all-stars (Pau and Ron had been all stars once each) playing on playoff teams that couldn't win a title. Lakers pick them up and play them with Bryant and they have a dynasty.
                  Picking up two very good players takes us a step closer to a title, all we would need then is the team leader. I think if you could put together a roster consisting of say Josh Smith and Andre Igoudala plus three decent role players like Reggie, Jose, and Dalembert, guys like Chris Paul might be tempted to come play here. It's just an example, but a roster like that would be fairly tough to beat and would have a pretty good shot at a title.
                  "Victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory however long and hard the road may be; for without victory, there is no survival."

                  -Churchill

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                  • #10
                    hateslosing wrote: View Post
                    Lately I've been debating the merits of doing a true rebuild vs. trading some of our young talent to make us a good team next year. I was curious what others at the Republic might think so i decided to frame the question this way: If we could take all but one of our young players (DD, Amir, Ed, Bargs, Bayless, etc...) and picks and trade them to bring back two borderline all-star type guys would you do it? Think of a combination like Josh Smith and Monta Ellis or Al Jefferson and Danny granger, guys who are not franchise players but who are still very very good.
                    I think it comes down to who you move and who you get.

                    Of that list I would have no problems with this team moving Bargnani and Bayless.

                    I'm on the fence about Demar, and I wouldn't want to move Ed or Amir.

                    But I have no interest in this team getting Ellis or Granger. Jefferson would be a nice, and I think Smith is an excellent player.

                    I'm not opposed to the team doing one or the other... as long as the players they get (whether trade, draft, FA) are capable of contributing to a winning team. Efficient, hard working, effective players. No more one dimensional, soft, inefficient players... there have been enough of those going through this team's roster for 7 years

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                    • #11
                      My vote would be to stick with a true rebuilding plan.

                      A rebuilding plan doesn't mean the team has to keep every young player they have though. Of course I would be in favor of making favorable trades, as long as it nets the team good young assets that can be a piece of the puzzle over the next 3-7 years and/or draft picks.

                      For me, the core nucleous of this team right now is Bargnani, DeRozan and Davis. I really like Amir too, but would gladly use depth at PF to make a trade that successfully addressed a weakness at SF, for example. Everybody else is a tradeable asset and I would only ever make a trade that addressed a team need and/or made us a better team, with a 3-7 year window in mind. For those of you that scoff at me including Bargnani as a part of the core nucleous of this team, let me say that I think he is a great player that creates significant mismatches, but I don't consider him to be a "franchise player" or "all star" player, rather he's just a good player that is still relatively young and has more room for improvement (his first 2 seasons were wasted years under Smitch).

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                      • #12
                        trading away our young talent is pretty risky, as you need to orchestrate 2-3 separate trades possibly at different times. If you can only pull off 1 or 2, but can't get the 2-3 you get stuck in that 35-40 win season which some call the "mediocrity treadmill". Yes you can trade some of our pieces to address other holes in the roster, but I think that the direction the raps have decided to take is rebuild and to switch the game plan with quick fixes doesn't make any sense. I don't think coangelo did a bad job making quick fix trades (o'neal, marion, turk) but it certainly didn't get us where we want to be as a franchise. Why go back to the model that didn't produce the results we wanted?
                        "They're going to have to rename the whole conference after us: Toronto Raptors 2014-2015 Northern Conference Champions" ~ ezzbee Dec. 2014

                        "I guess I got a little carried away there" ~ ezzbee Apr. 2015

                        "We only have one rule on this team. What is that rule? E.L.E. That's right's, E.L.E, and what does E.L.E. stand for? EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY. Right there up on the wall, because this isn't just a basketball team, this is a lifestyle. ~ Jackie Moon

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                        • #13
                          I say we trade Bargs to orlando for brandon bass and earl clark
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                          • #14
                            Stick to the rebuild. Need to have a great base that is competing in a couple of rounds of playoffs and then get the last two pieces that get you compete for championships.

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                            • #15
                              bargs needs to go to a team that needs a big and doesn't need a defensive presence but has a defensive minded coach, Orlando is the perfect candidate
                              NBADoppelgangers.tumblr.com

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