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The Present Stench and The Future Hope

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  • #16
    Raptors_ wrote: View Post
    i just want to see this team win a title before i die.
    You sound like a Leafs fan

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    • #17
      Apollo wrote: View Post
      Toronto has a young core because they stunk even with Bosh. They have used two lotto picks in the past few years and signed young guys to build from the ground because Bosh wasn't the kind of player who can carry a team on his own. The Cavs went to the finals not too long ago, they were built around a guy who could carry a team. They brought in lots of vets to try and help James win a title. It's easy to start a rebuild when you already have a bunch of young talent in house. The Cavs had a different starting point. It's not a fair comparison.

      If you want to take your road then we can go down the avenue of "Colangelo should have traded Bosh before the deadline, look at what the Nuggets got for Melo".
      Please. Spend 10 minutes reading some archive posts on a Cavs blog (for example http://www.cavstheblog.com/?p=4027 ), and you'll get a different perspective on Colangelo. The short story is that the Cavs had GM's who couldn't get any better support for LeBron than the likes of Larry Hughes, Mo Williams and Antawn "worst defender in the league" Jamison. Theystruck out repeatedly in the draft and brought in bad free agents. Danny Ferry's useful contribution was to eventually find SOME decent role-players who complemented LeBron. Not enough, and too late. The Cavs were an amazing team because LeBron was the best player in the league.

      Doesn't it tell you something that Raptors cast-offs Anthony Parker, Jamario Moon, and Joey graham were all playing serious minutes in LeBron's last year as a Cavalier?

      Most fans have blinders on. They pay closest attention to what their team does, and as a consequence their opinion of their GM is usually very black or white: he's an idiot because the team sucks, or he's a genius because it's been doing well. But it doesn't take TOO much work to pick out the GM's that have really objectively struck out: Isaiah Thomas is the most obvious recent one (thank god he lost the ownership battle in Toronto, eh?), Kahn is a pretty promising candidate (Johnny Flynn 6th overall!) but Danny Ferry is a pretty safe pick (edit: or else Jim Paxson, his predecessor). If you can't win a championship with 6 years of LeBron James, you probably shouldn't be an NBA GM.

      So anyway, yes, Toronto was helped in its rebuilding project by sucking more and therefore having higher draft picks. But the contracts Colangelo had around Bosh were also better, plus Colangelo is clearly very skilled in unloading contracts he doesn't want anymore. Colangelo as of last summer did not have a lineup full of youth: he has CREATED that, and he was able to because the contracts he already had didn't tie his hands, and because he made deals happen. Take a look at Cleveland's lineup. It ain't pretty, and no, that's NOT just because we were a worse team.
      Last edited by malefax; Sat Apr 2nd, 2011, 01:32 AM.

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      • #18
        We didn't have a healthy Kleiza. Don't forget about him. I'm convinced that he's a lot better than we saw. Think pre-season.
        Joshua Priemski
        NBA blogger
        SB Nation's Rufus on Fire
        www.RufusOnFire.com/
        www.twitter.com/HoopPlusTheHarm/

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        • #19
          malefax wrote: View Post
          Please. Spend 10 minutes reading some archive posts on a Cavs blog (for example http://www.cavstheblog.com/?p=4027 ), and you'll get a different perspective on Colangelo. The short story is that the Cavs had GM's who couldn't get any better support for LeBron than the likes of Larry Hughes, Mo Williams and Antawn "worst defender in the league" Jamison. Theystruck out repeatedly in the draft and brought in bad free agents. Danny Ferry's useful contribution was to eventually find SOME decent role-players who complemented LeBron. Not enough, and too late. The Cavs were an amazing team because LeBron was the best player in the league.

          Doesn't it tell you something that Raptors cast-offs Anthony Parker, Jamario Moon, and Joey graham were all playing serious minutes in LeBron's last year as a Cavalier?

          Most fans have blinders on. They pay closest attention to what their team does, and as a consequence their opinion of their GM is usually very black or white: he's an idiot because the team sucks, or he's a genius because it's been doing well. But it doesn't take TOO much work to pick out the GM's that have really objectively struck out: Isaiah Thomas is the most obvious recent one (thank god he lost the ownership battle in Toronto, eh?), Kahn is a pretty promising candidate (Johnny Flynn 6th overall!) but Danny Ferry is a pretty safe pick (edit: or else Jim Paxson, his predecessor). If you can't win a championship with 6 years of LeBron James, you probably shouldn't be an NBA GM.

          So anyway, yes, Toronto was helped in its rebuilding project by sucking more and therefore having higher draft picks. But the contracts Colangelo had around Bosh were also better, plus Colangelo is clearly very skilled in unloading contracts he doesn't want anymore. Colangelo as of last summer did not have a lineup full of youth: he has CREATED that, and he was able to because the contracts he already had didn't tie his hands, and because he made deals happen. Take a look at Cleveland's lineup. It ain't pretty, and no, that's NOT just because we were a worse team.

          I didn't commend the Cavs on what they did when LeBron was there, I just explained what they did and why they weren't in as good a place to start a rebuild. I don't really care what Cavs fans think about how their team was built, that's not the point of what I was getting at. The Cavs and Raptors had different starting points for their rebuilds and so it's not a fair comparison. The Cavs were at a greater handicap so naturally they'd be behind.

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          • #20
            Just as a further point about GM's: there is a lot of stuff that is just outside their control and makes a big difference to their success. The HUGE elephant in the room here is injuries. A really good example of this is the Houston Rockets. If you look at the moves that Daryl Morey has done, they have all or almost all been really good (in my opinion). I think the guy is really smart, a really good GM. But the Rockets are just fucked. Why? Because when Morey came in, their two cornerstone pieces with huge long contracts were Tracy McGrady and Yao Ming. He had to work with that. He built around them. Of course it was a risk, but building around them was the only real option he had. Both of them fell apart, and two superstars turned into expiring contracts.

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            • #21
              Apollo wrote: View Post
              For those who never heard this rumor before go here:

              Blake Griffin Could Have Been A Raptor?
              If the fans would of chanted Rupaul for Bosh while he was here, BC would of done this trade that could of potentially landed us Griff. But nope, I believe the fans were chanting Bosh for MVP!? Of course BC wasn't going to trade a fan fav, so whenever Raptors fans try to blame BC, look in the mirror.

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              • #22
                At the time when that rumored discussion took place Colangelo would have had no reason to make the deal. He had arguably the best PF in the east, with no hint of him leaving. There was no telling if the 1st overall pick would be better than him. It's serves no point to even go there because there was no chance in hell of it happening at the time no matter who was the GM. It would have made no sense and would have been difficult to see to the fans and media.

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                • #23
                  Apollo wrote: View Post
                  At the time when that rumored discussion took place Colangelo would have had no reason to make the deal. He had arguably the best PF in the east, with no hint of him leaving. There was no telling if the 1st overall pick would be better than him. It's serves no point to even go there because there was no chance in hell of it happening at the time no matter who was the GM. It would have made no sense and would have been difficult to see to the fans and media.
                  IMagine if BC made the trade, Davis did his usual get in shape by February, Griffin had the knee injury and missed all his first year (as he did), and Bosh had his 20plus ppg, 10 plus rebs in LA.... oh yeah, that would have gone over fabulous. Yes the team would be looking better now but the team would have been 13-69 with BC needing around the clock armed-security.
                  Last edited by mcHAPPY; Sat Apr 2nd, 2011, 03:37 PM. Reason: BC had his 20ppg, 10reb? No Bosh did.

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                  • #24
                    tbh I like ed more than I like griffen for building a championship team but I am not the normal person I have a preset image of what types of players I like at each position. billups is my perfect point guard, ray allen is my perfect shooting guard, scottie pippen is my perfect small forward, rasheed wallace is my perfect power forward and patrick ewing is my perfect center.

                    anyways up until this point I am happy with BC I never thought we would ever win with bosh but the majority of fans wanted him so imo his hand was forced.

                    we will see what happens in the draft, there are some guys that can make a impact on this team going foward I want to see who he picks.

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