For Whom the Bell Tolls!

[Raptors_]

I honestly hope you predict 45 or 40 wins at least next year then!

If that happend i'd cry and then buy tickets for the playoffs.

[Employee]

No kidding.

I hated all the "espn doesn't respect TO because they predicted the raptors 2nd last" whining at the beginning of the year.

[Multipaul]

Yeah. I think I was labeled a hater a few times when I tried to be the voice of reason back then... I don't like being right about this one all the same.

Well, if Bargs wasn't injured, we would've one all the games he missed...so....

[Multipaul]

I think you're vastly overrating this roster. I thought the early talk about vying for a playoff spot was a little shocking, quite frankly. I didn't understand at all where it was coming from, even with the East being as bad as it is. If everyone had been healthy, I can't see them winning more than 30 games.

By the way, if the Raptors win one more game this year, my predictions for wins the last two years will have been exactly 5 too many. At least I'm pretty consistent, if not a little optimistic.

I honestly hope you predict 45 or 40 wins at least next year then!

[Apollo]

I think you're vastly overrating this roster. I thought the early talk about vying for a playoff spot was a little shocking, quite frankly. I didn't understand at all where it was coming from, even with the East being as bad as it is. If everyone had been healthy, I can't see them winning more than 30 games.

Yeah. I think I was labeled a hater a few times when I tried to be the voice of reason back then... I don't like being right about this one all the same.

[Tim W.]

I give you alot of credit for the 27 win prediction, I thought we had a chance at 8th seed, and based on the early performance with Reg and Bargs as starting bigs, we couldve done it.

I think you're vastly overrating this roster. I thought the early talk about vying for a playoff spot was a little shocking, quite frankly. I didn't understand at all where it was coming from, even with the East being as bad as it is. If everyone had been healthy, I can't see them winning more than 30 games.

By the way, if the Raptors win one more game this year, my predictions for wins the last two years will have been exactly 5 too many. At least I'm pretty consistent, if not a little optimistic.

[Multipaul]

I think the Raptors performed about to their abilities. I projected 27 wins and I thought that was probably optimistic, but injuries to Kleiza, Evans and Barbosa killed any chance of reaching that goal. With the personnel the Raptors have, I would think 21 wins is pretty much what you'd expect.

As for Collins, I think he did a good job, but he also had far more talent than the Raptors did. They vastly underperformed last season, partly due to injuries, so it's a big jump, but they're two best players are better than anyone on the Raptors. At least right now.

I give you alot of credit for the 27 win prediction, I thought we had a chance at 8th seed, and based on the early performance with Reg and Bargs as starting bigs, we couldve done it.

[Tim W.]

Those are all good points. I think alot of them have survived with bad teams, got fired, then lead other teams to greater success.

So much like Statophile's point, the quality of players matters alot.

I would amend that to say that quality of coaching can enhance the quality of players, especially young players, as they are molding them into the players they are yet to become. Nature+nurture. I personally think the Raptors underperformed this year due to poor x's and o's to a large extent.

Collins did a pretty good job in Philly this year though, no?

I think the Raptors performed about to their abilities. I projected 27 wins and I thought that was probably optimistic, but injuries to Kleiza, Evans and Barbosa killed any chance of reaching that goal. With the personnel the Raptors have, I would think 21 wins is pretty much what you'd expect.

As for Collins, I think he did a good job, but he also had far more talent than the Raptors did. They vastly underperformed last season, partly due to injuries, so it's a big jump, but they're two best players are better than anyone on the Raptors. At least right now.

[Multipaul]

Those coaches you mentioned, for the most part, coached and have coached far more talented teams. Triano has gotten angry on many occasions, but how many times can you do it in a 21 win season before players start tuning you out? That has been the big problem of guys like DOug Collins (in his early years), Mike Fratello and others like them that get in player's faces. After a while, it just doesn't work anymore. When you're got a good team, you can use your outbursts sparingly and they have far more effect.

How many of those coaches coached teams with this little talent, and how many of them lasted very long doing it?

Those are all good points. I think alot of them have survived with bad teams, got fired, then lead other teams to greater success.

So much like Statophile's point, the quality of players matters alot.

I would amend that to say that quality of coaching can enhance the quality of players, especially young players, as they are molding them into the players they are yet to become. Nature+nurture. I personally think the Raptors underperformed this year due to poor x's and o's to a large extent.

Collins did a pretty good job in Philly this year though, no?

[Tim W.]

As a fan, I would like to see my coach get angry if he sees a poor effort. We expect the same from the coaches of every othe MLSE franchise, and if anything , at least they deliver on that. Phil Jackson, Larry Brown, Riley in his day, Skiles, Frank, Rivers, Thibodeau, JVG, SVG, Don Nelson, Jerry Sloan, Avery Johnson, hell Smitch, all of them knew when and how to make a point when they dont like what they see. These coaches have also coached into the playoffs and right to the top. They wouldnt put up with BS on the court even if their players thought they "couldnt get up for the game".

JT does not posess this penchant, either by design or by choice.

BTW, if , as a fan, lets say I buy tickets, $200 for a pair, and show up to watch that! As a dedicated fan, I will be pissed, but I know I will be back. The casual fan? Doubt it.

Those coaches you mentioned, for the most part, coached and have coached far more talented teams. Triano has gotten angry on many occasions, but how many times can you do it in a 21 win season before players start tuning you out? That has been the big problem of guys like DOug Collins (in his early years), Mike Fratello and others like them that get in player's faces. After a while, it just doesn't work anymore. When you're got a good team, you can use your outbursts sparingly and they have far more effect.

How many of those coaches coached teams with this little talent, and how many of them lasted very long doing it?

[MangoKid]

No. I didnt call you out. I said that I watched the game. You went to the baseball game. That is a fact is it not? Why are you getting so defensive? I just said that I liked hoops, and if the other poster didnt like watching "the 78th game between 2 loser teams" then he can as well go see the Jays. Right? I mean, i dont see the point of posting on this thread if one didnt watch the game anyways, that's like writing a Raptors roll call based on what they read in the newspaper the next day.

Come on man. I was born at night, but I wasn't born last night. When you make statements like "I support the team and the franchise. I don't care if you don't , you can go watch baseball with Mango. Sorry, I like basketball". Why even bring up my name? What does me going to a baseball game have anything to do with your point? I'd stop trying to stir the pot if I were you.

[Raptors_]

i think it a generational and diversity thing. Young kids with different global backgrounds might not be as interested in hockey or baseball. Personally i think hoops, soccer, and mma are the way to go! And ps3!

yup

[Multipaul]

It's funny cause i used to think that too. But i was listening to the news in the morning and they said that more people came to the raptors game than the jays game. They said that people in toronto and the GTA prefer hoops more than any other sport. Then the sports guy started insulting the raptors saying we were shooting like drunk sailors or sumthing. I was very suprised to hear this cause i thought people here preferred hockey or baseball more than basketball, guess i was wrong.

I think it a generational and diversity thing. Young kids with different global backgrounds might not be as interested in hockey or baseball. Personally I think hoops, soccer, and MMA are the way to go! And PS3!

[Raptors_]

I am pretty sure casual fans wrote this season off a long time ago. Between the Leafs playoff push and the excitement around the Jays I suspect that Raptors are at best an afterthought in the minds of sports fans in Toronto. Only hardcore fans are paying attention anymore and even we all know these games are meaningless.

Not sure if you're actually worked up about game 78 for a 20-win team playing its 4th game in 5 nights on a back-to-back without a bunch of key players but if your professed outrage is truly legitimate then you really need to stop watching the Raptors and go do some other stuff in your life. If you're just trying to play devil's advocate then that's kinda sad, too.

It's funny cause i used to think that too. But i was listening to the news in the morning and they said that more people came to the raptors game than the jays game. They said that people in toronto and the GTA prefer hoops more than any other sport. Then the sports guy started insulting the raptors saying we were shooting like drunk sailors or sumthing. I was very suprised to hear this cause i thought people here preferred hockey or baseball more than basketball, guess i was wrong.

[Multipaul]

I think its different when you actually go to the game vs. sitting at home and watching on the telly.
I went to the Utah game and eventhough i know they have no chance of making it to the playoffs, it wouldve still felt good to go home knowing your home team won the game. Cant really explain why, i guess maybe its the sense of satisfaction resulting from driving an hr to get to the game, sitting for 3 hours and then looking down at your son after he asked you "did they win??". the fact that you as a fan feel as much a part of this loss, makes it kinda hard. hahaha melodramatic i know but thats how it was for me.

last paragraph: totally where im at right now, hehehe.

I hear ya man. I feel bad for those few thousand souls that went out to suppor their team and were treated to that shellacking. Especially the kids. What do you tell them - "It's ok to make millions and not try hard for your fans since you are already out of the playoffs"