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  • #16
    Bendit wrote: View Post
    There are some f/a possibilities this summer for a centre. I would discount the offensive capabilities of the C and just have passing, making fts and general defense as necessary qualities. The team is very young as is and there shall be other drafts.
    The history of free agent signings at the C spot - minus Shaq to LAL - is littered with regret and sorrow for many GM's and owners. The best way to get a C is to trade for or draft one.

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    • #17
      [QUOTE=minks77;76563]
      People are saying Jonas has a good frame to add muscle here but I don't know.
      Watch the video that pran linked and check his shoulders at the foul line - the kid is broad.

      He looks like a lanky body type to me and adding weight may slow him down and put pressure on his knees.
      So he is screwed if he doesn't add muscle and he is screwed if he does? If he gains 40 pounds of fat, you might have a legitimate case, 20-30 pounds of muscle will make him more explosive.

      Also he has put on almost zero weight nor has his muscle tone improved the past 2 years.
      Again, I'm confused by the post - do you want him to add weight or not? The reason why he has put little weight on (although he has been getting heavier) is because between 16-18 years of age he is still growing up - not out. The guy is 18 and 6'11" and 240 pounds. I'm 6'7"/6'8" and I only managed to start adding serious muscle around 21 and at 18 I weighed 185. Also the kid is playing 15 minutes in the Euroleague against grown men and still getting 5.4 rebounds a game.

      While he's a good finisher with great size and a nasty streak, his half court game, from what little I've seen and the reports I've read, is a serious work in progress.
      Because he is 18 years old. He has solid footwork and fundamentals in the post, shoots 92% from the foul line, has great hands for dump offs, excellent rebounding instincts and timing, plays really good pick and roll defense which is extremely important in the NBA. Many of the skills and intangibles he possesses cannot be taught whereas a refined post game and a face up jumper most certainly can.

      I'd be careful about this guy. He screams Euro in the bad way: Not physical, too light, not enough of a grinder and he's missing some classic Euro "pluses" like a shot. I'm not saying he'd be a bust but he is definitely a project and despite him saying his buyout is "no problem" I doubt that's true.
      You do realize there is nothing in this section that is fact based - it is opinion and some of it is blatantly incorrect.

      Check the C's coming out in the next 2 years, then review the history of free agent C's in the NBA - wings are a dime a dozen, C's not so much.

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      • #18
        Holy shit Matt, you're 6'7"??? Wow, I feel so short right now.

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        • #19
          RaptorsFan4Life wrote: View Post
          Like a said 100x before, no Enes because he's injury prone. I don't really want us taking that risk with a top 5 pick at this stage of the rebuild.
          Here's my thing with taking a big. We don't necessarily need one, the PG is of far greater concern right now. If we're rebuilding and our scouting department has faith in Irving, go for him (might even involve trading up which the Raptors have NEVER done). I'm not sure what Derek Williams "true" position in the NBA will be, but I'm curious what he can bring. Might be wise to select him and capitalize on his inflated tournament value and then deal him.

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          • #20
            RaptorsFan4Life wrote: View Post
            Like a said 100x before, no Enes because he's injury prone. I don't really want us taking that risk with a top 5 pick at this stage of the rebuild.
            This keeps getting repeated, but I've never heard any actual evidence that he is injury prone. I've heard he suffered a knee injury a few years ago, but that doesn't make one injury prone. I think until the medical tests, we really have no idea what the story is with him.
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            • #21
              Arsenalist wrote: View Post
              Here's my thing with taking a big. We don't necessarily need one, the PG is of far greater concern right now. If we're rebuilding and our scouting department has faith in Irving, go for him (might even involve trading up which the Raptors have NEVER done). I'm not sure what Derek Williams "true" position in the NBA will be, but I'm curious what he can bring. Might be wise to select him and capitalize on his inflated tournament value and then deal him.
              The Raptors need talent. Period. If Irving is gone and the next best players are Kanter and/or Jonas then you take one of them. Drafting one of them would allow the Raptors to move Bargnani and not worry about getting a center back.

              I think the PG position is fine for the time being. Calderon isn't the perfect solution, or the long term one, but he has a positive effect on and off the court, and I would rather stick with him than pick a PG higher than he should go.
              Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
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              • #22
                Tim W. wrote: View Post
                The Raptors need talent. Period. If Irving is gone and the next best players are Kanter and/or Jonas then you take one of them. Drafting one of them would allow the Raptors to move Bargnani and not worry about getting a center back.

                I think the PG position is fine for the time being. Calderon isn't the perfect solution, or the long term one, but he has a positive effect on and off the court, and I would rather stick with him than pick a PG higher than he should go.
                agreed, unless we're getting irving (other worldly talent) under no circumstance should we draft another point guard, with next years draft (2012) having so few big men available.

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                • #23
                  [QUOTE=Matt52;76587]
                  minks77 wrote: View Post

                  Watch the video that pran linked and check his shoulders at the foul line - the kid is broad.



                  So he is screwed if he doesn't add muscle and he is screwed if he does? If he gains 40 pounds of fat, you might have a legitimate case, 20-30 pounds of muscle will make him more explosive.



                  Again, I'm confused by the post - do you want him to add weight or not? The reason why he has put little weight on (although he has been getting heavier) is because between 16-18 years of age he is still growing up - not out. The guy is 18 and 6'11" and 240 pounds. I'm 6'7"/6'8" and I only managed to start adding serious muscle around 21 and at 18 I weighed 185. Also the kid is playing 15 minutes in the Euroleague against grown men and still getting 5.4 rebounds a game.



                  Because he is 18 years old. He has solid footwork and fundamentals in the post, shoots 92% from the foul line, has great hands for dump offs, excellent rebounding instincts and timing, plays really good pick and roll defense which is extremely important in the NBA. Many of the skills and intangibles he possesses cannot be taught whereas a refined post game and a face up jumper most certainly can.



                  You do realize there is nothing in this section that is fact based - it is opinion and some of it is blatantly incorrect.

                  Check the C's coming out in the next 2 years, then review the history of free agent C's in the NBA - wings are a dime a dozen, C's not so much.
                  I love the argument that my opinion is incorrect because it differs from your opinion.
                  when I have some more time this afternoon I will cobble together my counterpoints as I'm out the door right now. But some of the isht you guys are saying is flat out YOUR opinion stated as fact. I mean you really watching so much of buddys game that you can say he has excellent footwork? What are you basing your opinion on? A bunch of highlight reels and a stat sheet?

                  Last thing, I never said I wanted the raps to draft a wing. I know my NBA history too. I don't know what the f you're talking about FA Centres and upcoming candidates. As for the idea that wigs are a dime a dozen, well, that's what Rob Babcock thought too and look who he drafted. It's hard to get elite players at any position but Centre has to be the hardest, Enes is a centre and JV isn't. I don't understand your point.
                  LET'S GO RAP-TORS!!!!!

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Tim W. wrote: View Post
                    This keeps getting repeated, but I've never heard any actual evidence that he is injury prone. I've heard he suffered a knee injury a few years ago, but that doesn't make one injury prone. I think until the medical tests, we really have no idea what the story is with him.
                    Actually, according to NBADraft.net he has had some injury problems.

                    Weaknesses: One of the big concerns scouts have with Kanter is his physical health. He has had a history of knee problems and there are concerns about his knees not checking out 100% when he has NBA physicals
                    Link

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                    • #25
                      [QUOTE=minks77;76618]
                      Matt52 wrote: View Post

                      I love the argument that my opinion is incorrect because it differs from your opinion.
                      when I have some more time this afternoon I will cobble together my counterpoints as I'm out the door right now. But some of the isht you guys are saying is flat out YOUR opinion stated as fact. I mean you really watching so much of buddys game that you can say he has excellent footwork? What are you basing your opinion on? A bunch of highlight reels and a stat sheet?

                      Last thing, I never said I wanted the raps to draft a wing. I know my NBA history too. I don't know what the f you're talking about FA Centres and upcoming candidates. As for the idea that wigs are a dime a dozen, well, that's what Rob Babcock thought too and look who he drafted. It's hard to get elite players at any position but Centre has to be the hardest, Enes is a centre and JV isn't. I don't understand your point.
                      This is the original quote, all the bolded are sections that you clearly state are your opinion:

                      People are saying Jonas has a good frame to add muscle here but I don't know. He looks like a lanky body type to me and adding weight may slow him down and put pressure on his knees. Also he has put on almost zero weight nor has his muscle tone improved the past 2 years. While he's a good finisher with great size and a nasty streak, his half court game, from what little I've seen and the reports I've read, is a serious work in progress. I'd be careful about this guy. He screams Euro in the bad way: Not physical, too light, not enough of a grinder and he's missing some classic Euro "pluses" like a shot. I'm not saying he'd be a bust but he is definitely a project and despite him saying his buyout is "no problem" I doubt that's true.
                      Where did I present an argument that your opinion is incorrect because it differs from mine? The only section I called out before now as opinion based was the last section of the first paragraph quoted that is full of Euro stereotypes that have been repeated brought up on this forum and continue to be ignorant of reality. This is a forum where ideas and opinions are shared so opinions are encouraged and welcome. However when the opinions are clearly lacking any meaningful insight or stated as fact despite numerous articles and reports to the contrary, that is when I take issue.

                      As for stating opinion as fact, that might very well be the case. Yes it is based on highlight reels, game footage, draft websites reviews, and statistics. If you go through them all (and trust me I have) you start to get a clear picture of what he abilities and weaknesses are.

                      As for you wanting to draft a wing - where did I say that? I concluded with the statement that if you look at the C's coming out in the next 2 years and review the history of FA signings of C's, there are few C's coming out next year and there are a lot of bad free agent C signings. The best way to get a C is to draft or trade for one. Considering the Raps have very little talent on the roster the only C's they're going to get are the ones from teams looking to get rid of their overpaid free agent signings.

                      You last sentence makes it abundantly clear you wrote your opinions of Valanciunas from ESPN draft section. They are the ONLY site putting him as a PF. If you watch enough of his game footage and read every other write up on him, he is clearly a C.

                      Jonas Valanciunas - Lietuvos Rytas Vilnius (Lithuania)

                      Quick stats: 7.7 points, 5.8 rebounds in 15 minutes in Euroleague, 12.8 points, 8.5 rebounds, 2.2 blocks in 21 minutes in Lithuanian championship.

                      One of the most promising young European talents, Valanciunas already has a significant role in his Euroelague debut season in Lietuvos Rytas. Valanciunas, who will turn 19 on May, has appeared in 14 Euroleague games, eight starts and being at young age, surprisingly proved himself as one of the most productive big men in the league.

                      Numbers speak for them selves: the Lithuanian center averages 7.7 points and 5.8 rebounds in only 15 minutes. That means Valanciunas scores 0.51 points (12th result in the league) and grabs 0.36 rebound (second result) per minute. Despite Valanciunas’ productiveness and consistency, head coach Aleksandr Trifunovic has limited center’s minutes as Valanciunas played 20 minutes or more only twice during this Euroleague season. The main reason of that is Valanciunas still lack of muscles and needs to improve his arsenal of offensive moves.

                      What is more important, Valanciunas shoots an incredible 70 percent from short distance and 92 percent from the free throw line in Euroleague. It seems that Valanciunas has everything what it takes to be a great NBA center - talent, body, experience and relentless work ethic.
                      Source: NBADraft.net

                      Strengths: Long, agile bigman with a lot of promise ... The next big prospect out of Lithuania (after Motiejunas) .. Extremely fluid running the floor for a player his size ... His long wingspan and huge hands make him an imposing force inside ... Has good dexterity to catch the ball and make plays around the basket ... A good athlete who gets off the floor well and attacks the rim ... Born in 1992, considering his age, he appears to be a guy that is not done growing and could top out at well over 7-feet ... Wide shoulders will allow him to put on a good deal of strength and weight without hindering his agility ... Shows a soft touch on his shot with excellent shooting mechanics and overall fundamentals ... Can face the basket and knock down shots out to 12 feet ... Good basketball IQ ... Strong motor. Plays with a strong competitive drive ... Hard working kid who should continue to improve ... Shows solid vision and court sense, getting rid of the ball and finding teammates when doubled ...

                      Weaknesses: His body still needs a lot of strength, although he has plenty of time to fill out and his body appears to be on it's way ... Appears to easily get into foul trouble, so will need to learn to manage his aggressiveness defensively ... He's sure to receive a lot of hype over the next few years, so staying focused and blocking out all the press clippings will be paramount ... Not incredibly explosive. Added strength should allow him to become quicker off his feet ... A little too predictable with his post moves, he nearly always goes left, so adding more diversity to his moves will be important ...
                      Source: NBADraft.net

                      The first time Jonas Valanciunas showed his face on the international level, he was nothing more than skin and bones – a raw, timid 16-year-old star struck by the bright lights of Madison Square Garden at the Jordan Brand Classic international game in April, 2008.

                      That was the first of many epic showdowns Valanciunas would have with Turkish phenom Enes Kanter, and while the future Kentucky student had his way in New York City en route to 22 points, 17 rebounds and a well-deserved MVP award, the Lithuanian did little to hint that he would develop into arguably the most talented prospect in European basketball just a few years later.

                      These were the first baby steps Valanciunas would take on the international level, but the talented youngster would progress quickly. First came the NBA Basketball without Borders camp in Istanbul in June, where Valanciunas began to show real potential. Then the Under-16 European Championships in Italy in July, where he led the tournament in rebounding and blocks, and most importantly, helped his team win the championship.

                      The following May, we were able to see Valanciunas once again, this time in a more natural environment at the Euroleague's Nike International Junior Tournament in Berlin. He had an eye-opening performance under the watchful eye of some key NBA decision makers, helping his team make the finals and making the tournament's all-first team along the way. Valanciunas' body was slowly but surely filling out and he was a much more confident and intense player than he was a year before. His work was starting to pay off.

                      All Valanciunas has done since is continue to improve steadily every time we've seen him. There he was in the U-18 European Championships in Metz in the summer of 2009, going up against arch-rival Enes Kanter in a pair of epic matchups that frequently get mentioned by NBA scouts as pivotal moments in their evaluations. 19.3 points, 10.6 rebounds, 2.6 blocks, on 72% FG and 79% FT were the final tallies in France.

                      And there he was again in the Under-18s the following summer, helping Lithuania win the European Championship and hoisting the tournament MVP trophy after averaging 19.4 points (70% FG, 78% FT), 13.4 rebounds and 2.7 blocks.

                      In between, Valanciunas has continued to progress from year to year on the club level, starting in hometown Utena in the Lithuanian third division, then moving to Perlas Vilnius in the second division and later to Lietuvos Rytas in the first division.

                      This year, he is competing in the highest level of European basketball in the Euroleague as well, and ranks as one of the top players in the competition on a per-40 minute basis in points (21.8), rebounds (13.6), blocks (1.8), field goal percentage (74.4%), free throw percentage (87.5%), and fouls (9.1). That's quite an accomplishment for a skinny 18-year-old.

                      The natural question to ask would be—“Where will it end?” The answer to which seems quite obvious: shaking David Stern's hand at the NBA Draft.

                      How Valanciunas managed to make such large strides over the last two and a half years is a more interesting question to ponder.

                      The answer to that one is a bit more complex, which is why boarded a plane to Lithuania (and Croatia) to watch him play and speak with him face to face.

                      Standing 6-6 ½ when he arrived in Vilnius in February of 2007, Valanciunas has grown at least four inches since (I'm now 210 centimeters [almost 6-11] without shoes,” he informed us) and has slowly grown into his excellent frame. He's retained all of the quickness he had earlier on in his career and still sports a mammoth 7-6 wingspan, (again according to him.)

                      “I have very long arms,” Valanciunas says modestly, with a smile. “It helps a lot.”

                      All the physical tools in the world wouldn't mean anything if he didn't have the will to use them, though. Fortunately for Valanciunas, he's an incredibly intense competitor, a boundlessly energetic player who never stops working for a moment and whose presence is constantly felt on the court.

                      He runs the floor extremely well, is quick off his feet and has no qualms whatsoever about throwing his body around in the paint. Not one to just stand around and wait for opportunities to come to him, Valanciunas wants to be productive all the time, which is a big reason he's been able to earn playing time in such a demanding environment this season, despite his obvious immaturity.

                      “I don't have very good skills right now, many good moves, so I have to fight,” he tells us.

                      Essentially an afterthought in Lietuvos Rytas' offense, Valanciunas satisfies his hunger for touches through his work on the offensive glass. The largest portion of his offense (27%) comes from this area according to Synergy Sports Technology, a testament to his length, quickness, timing, hands, activity level and instincts. He pulls down over five offensive rebounds for every 40 minutes he's on the floor, and watching him play, it's not difficult to tell why.

                      As attractive a skill as his offensive rebounding might be, Valanciunas' most important source of scoring comes from his ability to finish plays created for him by teammates around the basket. He takes special pride in his ability to operate as a pick-and-roll finisher -- “That's my basketball,” he said. This is a skill that should translate to the NBA immediately.

                      Valanciunas does a good job setting screens and then rolling to the basket with pinpoint timing, arms high in the air, vigorously pleading for the ensuing pass. He has extremely soft hands and attacks the rim with real purpose, elevating above the rim and finishing strong, with a dunk if possible – and preferably an emphatic one at that.

                      He realizes he's not going to be able to back his man down at this stage in his development (“My points are not from playing on the low post”, he admits) and thus does his best to put himself in position to receive the ball and convert these plays as effectively as he can.

                      It seems to be working. According to Synergy Sports Technology, Valanciunas has had 52 possessions thus far this season deemed as pick-and-rolls or cuts to the basket, and has scored or drawn a foul on 42 of them. When unable to finish with a dunk, he shows very nice touch around the basket, often using the glass softly.

                      While Valanciunas' length and athleticism clearly play a big role in his success here, it's his toughness and fearlessness that really stand out the most. He's not afraid to challenge opponents, even if that means taking a nasty spill to the floor and tasting the hardwood.

                      Valanciunas also gets some opportunities from time to time in post-up situations, an area that he's not nearly as proficient. He lacks the girth to establish deep position inside the paint at the Euroleague level, even if that doesn't stop him from trying.

                      Against weaker opponents, he can put the ball down once or twice and dig a bit for better position to get his jump hook off (showing nice touch and great extension around the rim), but he doesn't really have the strength to finish through contact against high-level opponents.

                      He needs to work on his left hand and get quicker and more proficient with his foot-work and counter moves, as he doesn't look terribly natural creating his own shot down low.

                      Valanciunas is largely untested on the perimeter at the moment. He's taken one jumper this season—a surprisingly confident looking 3-pointer with the shot clock running out against Zalgiris. It went in.

                      Although we don't have very much data to work with right now (“I don't have opportunities to shoot,” he tells us. “My job to play in the low post,”) it doesn't seem unreasonable to expect that he'll become at least a capable mid-range shooter down the road.

                      The most shocking part of Valanciunas' game, in fact, might be his free throw percentage —he's made 43 of his 50 (86%) free throws this season; something he's done throughout his career.

                      “I spend a lot of time working on this,” Valanciunas explains to us. “After every practice I shoot around 200 free throws.”

                      The rest of Valanciunas' game needs refinement, particularly his ball-handling and passing abilities. He turns the ball over at a pretty high rate and definitely has a ways to go in terms of improving his basketball IQ and overall experience level.

                      The place this seems to show up most is on the defensive end. Valanciunas is a major presence in the paint with his terrific size and length. His mobility helps him out quite a bit as well. He can contest shots around the rim and has good timing for blocking shots, even if he's not what you would call a high-flyer.

                      With that said, he's not the smartest, most reactive player you'll find right now, especially on the perimeter, which can lead to some poor rotations and open shots for opponents.

                      Interestingly enough, even when you see him getting beat at times outside the paint he still has the ability to recover and make a play at the rim, which is a testament to his foot speed and wingspan.

                      Nevertheless, he's still gaining experience and learning the nuances of the game on this end, which is one of the main things holding him back from getting even more playing time for Rytas.

                      Inside the paint, Valanciunas is a frequent target for opposing teams to post up due to his narrow frame and lack of experience, especially in the Euroleague, where almost every team has a bulky old school back-to-the-basket pivot who can simply overpower Valanciunas in one-on-one situations.

                      That's a big reason why Valanciunas has had consistent foul problems over the course of the year -- another reason that his playing time has been limited. In the Euroleague, for example, he commits approximately one foul for every 4 minutes he's on the court.

                      Despite the negatives described here, Valanciunas is undoubtedly an outstanding prospect, especially when we consider that he doesn't turn 19 until May. Players with his combination of size, length, mobility, toughness and budding skills are extremely difficult to come by.

                      The fact that he's producing at the rate he is in the Euroleague, Lithuanian league, and VTB League at his age is an extremely positive sign. Considering the tools he has, it's safe to say that his upside to continue to improve is huge.

                      It's easy to see him developing into an Andris Biedrins-type rebounder/defender/hustler in the NBA, but he likely has more even potential offensively than the Latvian big man due to his superior hands and touch (he probably has more of a nasty streak too).

                      While the impending NBA lockout this summer looks like a major thorn in the side of most college players, for Valanciunas it couldn't be better news. He'll be able to lock himself into a very favorable spot on the NBA rookie scale by being drafted this year but will still have the opportunity to return to Lithuania for another season (if he chooses to) and come to the NBA as a much more ready prospect.

                      Valanciunas has some issues to work out with his buyout from Rytas still, but he unequivocally wants to play in the NBA, telling us that that's his dream in fact.

                      “My biggest point is to go to the NBA, Valanciunas says. “It's my dream. My goal is to improve so I can play in the NBA.”

                      With that said, Valanciunas isn't necessarily willing to leave at all costs. “I want to go to the NBA when I can play,” he told us. “Not to go there and sit on the bench. If I go and sit on the bench that not good for me and it's not good for the club.”

                      Valanciunas' European agent, Sarunas Broga, says that its “too early to say what's going to happen, but the decision about the NBA will ultimately be made by Jonas.”

                      He plans on using the next few months to learn more about his draft stock and the teams that will likely be picking in the lottery—with the help of Valanciunas' new American agents, Leon Rose and Steven Heumann of CAA—and reach an agreement with Lietuvos Rytas about a sliding buyout scale figure to get out of his contract if needed. An invitation to play in the Nike Hoop Summit in Portland in April is also in the works.

                      The Valanciunas camp doesn't seem to be in any rush to commit to anything at this point.

                      “I'm thinking about making good results in basketball, Valanciunas says. “If I make good results, these things will come. When the season ends I will look at everything and me and my agent will think about all. Right now we're only halfway through the season. I still have a lot of work to do. I need to focus on basketball."

                      From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/...#ixzz1J3rI4QNq
                      http://www.draftexpress.com
                      Finally, type his name in YouTube and watch for an hour or two. There are some good game videos like the one pran has already posted.
                      Last edited by mcHAPPY; Sat Apr 9, 2011, 05:02 PM.

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                      • #26
                        Nice discussion thread.

                        Raptors better take 1. Barnes , 2. Irving or 3. Walker.

                        If they pass on any of these three, or Jones for that matter, to grab a Euro I'll quit the team.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Pele wrote: View Post
                          Nice discussion thread.

                          Raptors better take 1. Barnes , 2. Irving or 3. Walker.

                          If they pass on any of these three, or Jones for that matter, to grab a Euro I'll quit the team.
                          If they grab walker regardless of the situation, I won't quit this team, Im in for the long haul, but I'd be verrrry disapointed

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                          • #28
                            [QUOTE=minks77;76618]
                            Matt52 wrote: View Post

                            I love the argument that my opinion is incorrect because it differs from your opinion.
                            when I have some more time this afternoon I will cobble together my counterpoints as I'm out the door right now. But some of the isht you guys are saying is flat out YOUR opinion stated as fact. I mean you really watching so much of buddys game that you can say he has excellent footwork? What are you basing your opinion on? A bunch of highlight reels and a stat sheet?

                            Last thing, I never said I wanted the raps to draft a wing. I know my NBA history too. I don't know what the f you're talking about FA Centres and upcoming candidates. As for the idea that wigs are a dime a dozen, well, that's what Rob Babcock thought too and look who he drafted. It's hard to get elite players at any position but Centre has to be the hardest, Enes is a centre and JV isn't. I don't understand your point.
                            no you have it backwards, don't reply until you watch the youtube footage please

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                            • #29
                              JoePanini wrote: View Post
                              Actually, according to NBADraft.net he has had some injury problems.



                              Link
                              Ya, I've read this, too. But that seems to be the extent of the information about it. I read something, somewhere, that said he had one or two knee injuries, but that was a while ago and hasn't had any trouble since. I'm not saying it's wrong, but most of the times there is concern about a player's physical health, there's a lot more evidence to back up that concern. I just haven't seen any except for a scouting report that seems to be repeated a lot.
                              Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
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                              • #30
                                Pele wrote: View Post
                                Nice discussion thread.

                                Raptors better take 1. Barnes , 2. Irving or 3. Walker.

                                If they pass on any of these three, or Jones for that matter, to grab a Euro I'll quit the team.
                                Why, do you have some sort of ignorant prejudice against European players? If so, perhaps you could quit the team even if the Raptors don't take a Euro.
                                Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
                                Follow me on Twitter.

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