The Lockout & the Raptors: Players approve CBA, Owners too! (1944)

[mcHAPPY]

The two sides will meet again Friday, and there’s a push within the league office and from Players Association executive director Billy Hunter to have Fisher in the room, league sources said. Nevertheless, Fisher hasn’t committed to attending the meeting, perhaps because of legal concerns about how a judge in the federal suit could view his participation. There’s still a sense the owners could be setting up a trap for the Players Association, perhaps leading them on in talks now only to pull the plug and make a case to the judge that Hunter’s and Fisher’s involvement in the meetings shows they’re still acting as a union – and that the disclaimer of interest and subsequent lawsuits were nothing more than negotiating tactics.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_yl..._resume_112311

If Fisher shows up to negotiations, the owners will have a very, very strong case in the antitrust suits. Hopefully they are negotiating to end the lockout versus crush the players.

[mcHAPPY]

NEW YORK — He is a close-talker and a loud-talker whose voice can be the verbal equivalent of fingernails on a chalkboard. David Stern has called his behavior “routinely despicable,” and on more than one occasion he has commandeered the post-meeting news briefings to incessantly spew vitriol at the NBA owners with whom he has been butting heads.

He is Jeffrey Kessler, the lead outside counsel for what used to be known as the National Basketball Players Association, and he is reportedly out of the picture now that talks between the players and owners have resumed with an eye toward reaching a settlement that would allow for the NBA season to begin on Christmas Day, Dec. 25.

http://sheridanhoops.com/2011/11/24/...e-kessler-out/

Several ownership sources were enthusiastic over the removal of polarizing Players Association counsel, Jeffrey Kessler.

As one ownership source said recently, “Remember, the NFL got its deal done when [Kessler] finally was out of the room.”

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_yl..._resume_112311

From all I've read, before this, it seems having Kessler playing a significantly smaller role, if none at all, is in the best interests of everyone involved.

[mcHAPPY]

The biggest issue to resolving the lockout is......

the escrow system?

First it was all BRI.

Then all system.

Now it appears we are back to money and ensuring the players do not get more than 50%.

A source tells SheridanHoops.com that the most significant impediment to a deal remains the owners insistence on an escrow withholding system that would ensure that the revenue split for each season ends up being 50-50. Players have offered to have 10 percent of salaries withheld, but a problem has continually arisen when the sides have discussed what mechanism would make up for the shortfall if the 10 percent withholding did not get the players’ share down to 50 percent. Would the shortfall carry over into the next season? Or would the players have to make up the difference in some other way to balance the books at the end of each season to provide for a fresh start at the onset of the next season?

Of all the system issues that remain in dispute, that is the most contentious one that could loom as a deal-killer.

http://sheridanhoops.com/2011/11/24/...out/#more-2329

[Hugmenot]

Heck in my work place someone has to be available 365 days a year. For such a critical issue, costing billions of dollars, I'm pretty sure the two sides can forgo this one holiday and continue to have discussions and meetings.

Delaying the process by one day has very little financial impact so I fail to see why you call this a critical issue, costing billions of dollars.

[planetmars]

Delaying the process by one day has very little financial impact so I fail to see why you call this a critical issue, costing billions of dollars.

Well if the league needs 30 days to start a season, and Christmas games are supposed to bring in a lot of income, then delaying the process by skipping a barganing session on November 24th is a pretty big deal.

As for the billions of dollars - well the NBA brings in 4+ billion dollars annually. The further they delay in negotiating the better the chance that a season will be missed. My point is that these guys should be talking all the time. They shouldn't be skipping a day because they want to eat turkey and apple pie.

[Bendit]

the escrow system?

First it was all BRI.

Then all system.

Now it appears we are back to money and ensuring the players do not get more than 50%.




http://sheridanhoops.com/2011/11/24/...out/#more-2329

I am probably missing something here but I fail to see where the problem is re a solution to the shortfall issue. If in any given year the players owe an amount exceeding their 50% (including the escrow)...well just take that exceeded amount off the top of the BRI the following year before divvying it up. They could even come up with an interest charge arrangement

[slaw]

If Fisher shows up to negotiations, the owners will have a very, very strong case in the antitrust suits. Hopefully they are negotiating to end the lockout versus crush the players.

If the owners are participating in sham negotiations to lay the groundwork for a legal case then shame on them and their lawyers. Having been a commercial biglaw lawyer in a previous life I never worked with anyone who would endorse or participate in something like that. And I can't imagine these high-profile guys with big reputations on the line would engage in sharp practice like this - it would color every negotiation you ever were involved in again.

As for Kessler being out of the room, you don't need bomb throwers like this guy cause, in the end, they always end up hurting you. They have a role in certain scenarios but not in these type of negotiations. I would much rather have deal-makers than guys who simply raise issues and barriers. Always works out better.

[mcHAPPY]

I am probably missing something here but I fail to see where the problem is re a solution to the shortfall issue. If in any given year the players owe an amount exceeding their 50% (including the escrow)...well just take that exceeded amount off the top of the BRI the following year before divvying it up. They could even come up with an interest charge arrangement

I agree with your solution and it sounds straight forward. Obviously the players do not agree with such an arrangement.

[Apollo]

Well if the league needs 30 days to start a season, and Christmas games are supposed to bring in a lot of income, then delaying the process by skipping a barganing session on November 24th is a pretty big deal.

I don't think you appreciate how big a holiday Thanksgiving is in the States. One day means little in my opinion. They've been killing time for months now. To me it doesn't make much sense to burn meaningless days and then when a major holiday comes up that's important to all their families suddenly they must meet because it's now or never. Today, tomorrow, we know the outcome. Nothing gets accomplished and a truck load of meaningless contradicting rumors gets dumped on the media. We're not at the breaking point yet.

[mcHAPPY]

Consider the source and go find a huge grain of salt...

NBA commissioner David Stern is reportedly preparing a final offer on behalf of the league’s owners that will lead either to the end of the lockout, or to the end of the season.ESPN is reporting that Stern will improve the previous offer made to the players, which was ultimately rejected – a development that kickstarted the dissolving of the players’ union and the filing of a number of lawsuits.The terms of the new offer are expected to come with a take-it-or-leave-it provision – meaning that if the players don’t accept the proposal, Stern will proceed with the cancellation of the entire 2011-12 campaign.The two sides met for two days earlier this week in an attempt to sort out the various legal developments, a necessary component in the resumption of negotiations on a new collective bargaining agreement.The league and union will get together Friday following a one-day Thanksgiving break.Union president Derek Fisher has been excluded from the latest round of negotiations, according to sources. Also, it appears that that the players have replaced lead negotiator Jeffrey Kessler with Jim Quinn, a former chief outside counsel to the union.

Stern and Kessler have an acrimonious relationship while Quinn has worked well with both Stern and Hunter over the years and was credited with helping to settle a lockout in 1998-99. The two sides have been embroiled in a tense relationship as they work to hammer out a new collective bargaining agreement. The standoff has already resulted in the cancellation of the first six weeks of regular-season games.

The NBA has reportedly prepared a 66-game schedule which would begin with games Christmas Day in the event the two sides reach an agreement shortly.

The league and union remain apart on several key issues, including the division of basketball-related income (BRI). The league’s final offer contained a 50-50 split, while the players have said they would only accept such a division if the owners relented on other issues, including the mid-level exception and the luxury tax.

Source: HoopsWorld.com

I cannot find another source for this despite the quote of ESPN.

Another 'final' offer.

Why am I not optimistic?

Given the league has not gone to the 47%/flex cap/rollback offer they said they would, I'm not sure if the players take a take-it-or-leave-it threat seriously.

[planetmars]

I don't think you appreciate how big a holiday Thanksgiving is in the States. One day means little in my opinion. They've been killing time for months now. To me it doesn't make much sense to burn meaningless days and then when a major holiday comes up that's important to all their families suddenly they must meet because it's now or never. Today, tomorrow, we know the outcome. Nothing gets accomplished and a truck load of meaningless contradicting rumors gets dumped on the media. We're not at the breaking point yet.

I do understand how important Thanksgiving is to the US. I have family in the US, and this holiday is a big deal, but I would have considered missing Christmas games the breaking point. Otherwise what are we going to get? Another 50 game season? That was a joke. A lot of people in the league even admitted that they'd rather have a canceled season then a 50 game season.

Christmas is exactly 30 days from now. Since today is a write off, that means Christmas games are canceled - and with that hope of a season.

These guys should be talking all the time, not when its convenient for their families, or else it makes it seem like they honestly don't really care about getting the season up and running again. If the league nor the players really care about the season, then I guess why should I as a fan really care either.. it's just sad really.

[Nilanka]

Given the league has not gone to the 47%/flex cap/rollback offer they said they would, I'm not sure if the players take a take-it-or-leave-it threat seriously

The threat might be perceived as credible simply because of the short time left to start the season by xmas.

[mcHAPPY]

I do understand how important Thanksgiving is to the US. I have family in the US, and this holiday is a big deal, but I would have considered missing Christmas games the breaking point. Otherwise what are we going to get? Another 50 game season? That was a joke. A lot of people in the league even admitted that they'd rather have a canceled season then a 50 game season.

Christmas is exactly 30 days from now. Since today is a write off, that means Christmas games are canceled - and with that hope of a season.

These guys should be talking all the time, not when its convenient for their families, or else it makes it seem like they honestly don't really care about getting the season up and running again. If the league nor the players really care about the season, then I guess why should I as a fan really care either.. it's just sad really.

I read somewhere in the last day that the idea of 30 days to get a season up and running could probably have a few days shaved off.

I tend to read so many articles and tweets in the run of a day you'll have to take my word for it. I have no clue where I came across it today.

[mcHAPPY]

The threat might be perceived as credible simply because of the short time left to start the season by xmas.

I hope it is perceived as credible because I don't think the league does a season with less than 60 games.

[Nilanka]

I read somewhere in the last day that the idea of 30 days to get a season up and running could probably have a few days shaved off.

I was wondering the same. I believe that 30-day estimate includes 2-3 preseason games. I'm wondering if any preseason games are necessary at all. I realize the first 5-10 games could be quite ugly, but hey, desperate times call for desperate measures.