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The Lockout & the Raptors: Players approve CBA, Owners too! (1944)

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  • mcHAPPY
    replied
    JR Smith knee injury in China leaves one asking....

    See video at 0:23 mark in link below.

    The NBA lockout may cost the league an entire season. With nothing happen stateside, some players are heading overseas to get their fix and their money. One of those players is J.R. Smith of the Denver Nuggets. As you see around the 23-second mark of the video above, Smith went down with a serious knee injury in China today. A writer at the game tweeted that Smith couldn’t walk and had to be carried to an ambulance by teammates.

    Is there a chance Smith would have blown out his knee in the Nuggets’ season opener? Of course. But what does this mean for Smith’s future in the NBA? There’s no telling what this trip overseas may have cost Smith.

    http://thebiglead.com/index.php/2011...jury-in-china/
    I hope the knee injury looks much worse than it actually is. Regardless this does certainly add to the losses that the players continue to incur.

    There was a tweet saying he could not walk to the ambulance and teammates carried him.

    Leave a comment:


  • mcHAPPY
    replied
    Open letter from executive director NBA Coaches Association to players and owners

    First of all, I was unaware there was an NBA Coaches Association. With that said, the director speaks many truths.


    NBA coaches can't talk publicly about the lockout or else they run the risk of being fined by commissioner David Stern.

    But the executive director of the NBA Coaches Association can speak freely about the lockout and is urging both sides to "immediately back away from the precipice" and return to the bargaining table to avoid "killing the goose that lays so many golden eggs for so many connected with it."

    "As someone who has seen it all, I urge the principals involved in the current labor dispute to get back to the bargaining table and re-double their efforts to resolve the current conflict and get a deal done without delay," said Michael H. Goldberg, Executive Director NBA Coaches Association since 1978.

    "The upcoming NBA season must be saved," Goldberg said in an open letter addressed to the NBA and the players that was released Sunday. "To do otherwise will cause a self-inflicted economic blow to an enterprise that over the years, through the hard work of players, team owners and the league office, has become a great global brand. But, like every business operating in today's fragile economic landscape, one that is more susceptible to decline and fall. Everyone involved must now think beyond their own interests, check out the daily financial headlines, and work towards a negotiated solution now."

    Coaches have to be getting increasingly nervous about having the entire NBA season go up in smoke. Players filed two anti-trust lawsuits against the league last week in an effort to force the owners to return to the bargaining table. But there are no talks scheduled between the two sides, after negotiations broke off with the players deciding to dissolve their union and go the court route to get a settlement to the 144-day old lockout. Games through Dec. 15 have been canceled so far.

    If a deal is not struck in the next several days, the league might be forced to cancel its traditional Christmas Day games, which includes the Celtics playing the Knicks in the Garden.

    Goldberg said he did not write the letter to represent the views of the 30 head coaches or the numerous assistants coaches, but only himself.

    "We all need to concede that the NBA does not operate in a financial bulletproof bubble," he said. "After months of discussion, it has become apparent that a solution to the current situation means sacrifice and change. There is no time to waste."



    Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/ba...#ixzz1eI6DyYQR

    Leave a comment:


  • mcHAPPY
    replied
    Bendit wrote: View Post
    In the Pierce related posts today there is one significant omission in this statements and questions...the reason why on a matter of such importance (season cancellation and its implications to individual players) there was no secret ballot vote held. Imagine a Demar or even Bosh faced by Pierce replying "No" to his exhortations of decertification/disclaim.

    And who were the interviewers for these pieces?
    The hyperlink is there for the source. One was the Boston Globe and the other was Spears at Yahoo.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bendit
    replied
    This NBA fan is very upset at the lockout

    Leave a comment:


  • Tim W.
    replied
    Pierce is sounding incredibly ignorant, despite him being well versed on the issues of the strike. He's set for life, yet he's asking the rank and file players, who aren't and will be most affected by losing a season, to simply get in line. Losing one or even three seasons won't make a dent in his financial worth. The same is not true for the majority of players, who simply will never make up what they lose if this season is lost. Bill Simmons' article was bang on. Neither side is behaving well, but the players don't gain ANYTHING by dragging the negotiations on.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bendit
    replied
    In the Pierce related posts today there is one significant omission in this statements and questions...the reason why on a matter of such importance (season cancellation and its implications to individual players) there was no secret ballot vote held. Imagine a Demar or even Bosh faced by Pierce replying "No" to his exhortations of decertification/disclaim.

    And who were the interviewers for these pieces?

    Leave a comment:


  • mcHAPPY
    replied
    It is believed, however, that the league has Christmas Day -- traditionally the NBA's national television premiere event -- targeted as a critical date for a regular season. If they can't play by then, there might not be a season. The NBA had a 50-game schedule in 1998-99, but very few owners are believed to have an interest in that this time.

    Commissioner David Stern has said the league can start a regular season 30 days after an agreement on a new CBA. That would suggest that if a deal isn't done by Friday, there might not be a season.

    "Nobody can tell you how long it's going to take,'' David Boies , the leader of the players' legal team, said of antitrust litigation last week.

    "But I think it is in everybody's interests to try to resolve this promptly. The longer it goes on, the greater the damages that the teams will face and the greater the damages that the players will suffer, and perhaps more important, the longer that basketball fans will be deprived of basketball.''

    The best-case scenario, of course, is to have a settlement that leads to a collective-bargaining agreement, which, until last week's stunning explosion, seemed very close to fruition.

    Boies , coincidentally, has experience in this exact process from last spring, when he represented the NFL in the Brady lawsuit. The NFL's legal team also had another superstar lawyer, Paul Clement , who is part of the NBA's team in these proceedings.

    The two have battled in major cases before, but perhaps as recent former teammates in the NFL negotiations, they can work out what Stern and Billy Hunter , executive director of the now-defunct NBPA, couldn't.

    Source

    Leave a comment:


  • mcHAPPY
    replied
    Paul Pierce spreading his infinite wisdom

    While the NBPA did disband this past week, Pierce said he only viewed decertification as an option and denied that he was encouraging fellow players to dissolve the union.

    "I never told nobody to decertify," he said. "That's not something I was (doing). A lot of players around the league have respect for me and they call me in the summer because they know I got an understanding of what's going on with the negotiations and a lot of players asked me about decertification. And all I did was bring the information to them. I didn't push it one way or another."

    Pierce said players began calling him about their options.

    "It was like they wanted to know so we got a conference call with a lot of the guys that was interested in it, talked to a lawyer about the ins and outs about it and that was pretty much it," he said. "At the end of the day, it ain't Paul Pierce saying this is what the guys are going to do. I'm only one vote. It's got to be decided by everybody."

    The first six weeks of the NBA schedule have been wiped out by commissioner David Stern, including the first 20 Celtics games. If the schedule was intact, Boston would host Golden State on Sunday at TD Garden.

    "I'm very disappointed. I should be playing today," Pierce said. "Who's on the schedule? I think there's disappointment on both sides. I was in here in '98, who knows how many records I would have broken if I hadn't gone through two lockouts?"
    Source



    Q: Do the players or owners have to take the next step to renew labor talks?

    Pierce: “I think the owners have to take the step. We have taken a lot of steps. I think we have taken as many steps as we can take, which is why we are at where we are at. We feel like we’ve taken the most steps. That’s why we are going to court now.”
    This is a business negotiation, not a lovers quarrel. Also, considering the players have dismissed their lead negotiators by filing the disclaimer of interest, wouldn't it be on the new negotiators to contact the league?

    Who knows what the commissioner has up his sleeve for his next move. Technically, he is not allowed to call Billy Hunter to ask to resume negotiations, and vice versa, because Hunter and Derek Fisher no longer represent the players. Super lawyer David Boise, who charges $1,225 per hour, is empowered to take that call should Stern choose to make it. “They have my number,” Boise said in a meeting with reporters that I attended last Tuesday.

    http://sheridanhoops.com/2011/11/20/...news-update-2/
    In the end it doesn't matter which side contacts the other.... except for pride and ego of which neither side lacks.


    Q: [Celtics free-agent forward] Glen Davis(notes) has also voiced his displeasure with the union’s stance. He’s tweeted, “Take the 51% man and let’s play.” What do you think about what he has said?

    Pierce: “You got a lot of players that say, ‘Let’s take the deal.’ ‘Let’s take 51.’ ‘Let’s go 50-50.’ A lot of them don’t understand the issues. A lot of them are on the outside looking in. They kind of followed the negotiations on [television]. A lot of players didn’t understand the 50-50. Then you have a lot of players who weren’t in a lot of the meetings. They all flew out to New York, actually saw the deal [last Monday] and couldn’t believe it.

    “I had guys going to the gym, saying, ‘I can’t believe how bad the deal was.’ Once guys went to the meeting and saw what it really was, they kind of backed off of it.”
    A lot of them do understand the issue of not getting paid, not recovering any of the lost money, not having an opportunity to vote on the deal, and quite possibly ending up with a far worse deal than one that would have seen players salaries continue to grow.


    Q: Have you talked to Davis lately?

    Pierce: “Yeah, I talked to Glen like three days ago. What I said to ‘Baby’ was [the basketball-related income split] is not the main issue. How the soft cap is determined is a major issue. A lot of it is system issues. The max number of deals. The midlevel exception. Those are the bigger issues. I know we need to come to a common ground on the 50-50 or whatever the deal is going to be on the [basketball-related income]. The thing that we argue the most over is the system issues. That’s what is holding us back.”
    Sounds like making a mountain out of a mole hill to me - on both sides - since the BRI has been settled.


    Q: After talking to Davis, do you think he has a different view of the lockout now?

    Pierce: “It’s kind of hard for me speak for him because ‘Baby’ falls in the line of guys who are going to be affected in a major way – the free agents, the rookies coming in and players on the rookie scale now. And I can understand his frustration because he is saying, ‘I don’t have anything. I don’t even have a deal right now. Any deal would look good.’ A lot of guys are going to feel like that when they are put into a tight spot. What I want him to understand is it might not be the right deal for you today. So that’s what we are fighting for, the right deal for guys like you.”
    Shouldn't the players have the right to vote on what the right deal for them is? Who is to tell Glen Davis what is 'right' for him?


    Q: In fighting for the best deal, are you comfortable losing the season?

    Pierce: “I’m never comfortable with losing a season. I’m a part of a group that is taking a stand for something. Regardless of about how 400 players feel, at the end of the day we have to go all in or nothing. Regardless of what we do, we have to stick together. There are probably not a lot of players feeling [good about] suing the NBA. But this is what’s going on, this is what has to take place and this is where we are. So the players have to swallow that pill and hope for the best.”
    And what if it fails?

    Paul forgot the end of the 'hope for the best' and that is 'prepare for the worst'. Are the players prepared to lose all this money only to get a worse deal in the end? Actually, any deal will be worse in the end considering the money now lost will not be recouped during the next labour deal.


    Source
    Last edited by mcHAPPY; Sun Nov 20, 2011, 10:42 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • mcHAPPY
    replied
    Q: Do the players or owners have to take the next step to renew labor talks?

    Pierce: “I think the owners have to take the step. We have taken a lot of steps. I think we have taken as many steps as we can take, which is why we are at where we are at. We feel like we’ve taken the most steps. That’s why we are going to court now.”
    This is a business negotiation, not a lovers quarrel.


    Q: [Celtics free-agent forward] Glen Davis(notes) has also voiced his displeasure with the union’s stance. He’s tweeted, “Take the 51% man and let’s play.” What do you think about what he has said?

    Pierce: “You got a lot of players that say, ‘Let’s take the deal.’ ‘Let’s take 51.’ ‘Let’s go 50-50.’ A lot of them don’t understand the issues. A lot of them are on the outside looking in. They kind of followed the negotiations on [television]. A lot of players didn’t understand the 50-50. Then you have a lot of players who weren’t in a lot of the meetings. They all flew out to New York, actually saw the deal [last Monday] and couldn’t believe it.

    “I had guys going to the gym, saying, ‘I can’t believe how bad the deal was.’ Once guys went to the meeting and saw what it really was, they kind of backed off of it.”
    A lot of them do understand the issue of not getting paid, not recovering any of the lost money, not having an opportunity to vote on the deal, and quite possibly ending up with a far worse deal than one that would have seen players salaries continue to grow.


    Q: Have you talked to Davis lately?

    Pierce: “Yeah, I talked to Glen like three days ago. What I said to ‘Baby’ was [the basketball-related income split] is not the main issue. How the soft cap is determined is a major issue. A lot of it is system issues. The max number of deals. The midlevel exception. Those are the bigger issues. I know we need to come to a common ground on the 50-50 or whatever the deal is going to be on the [basketball-related income]. The thing that we argue the most over is the system issues. That’s what is holding us back.”
    Sounds like making a mountain out of a mole hill to me - on both sides - since the BRI has been settled.


    Q: After talking to Davis, do you think he has a different view of the lockout now?

    Pierce: “It’s kind of hard for me speak for him because ‘Baby’ falls in the line of guys who are going to be affected in a major way – the free agents, the rookies coming in and players on the rookie scale now. And I can understand his frustration because he is saying, ‘I don’t have anything. I don’t even have a deal right now. Any deal would look good.’ A lot of guys are going to feel like that when they are put into a tight spot. What I want him to understand is it might not be the right deal for you today. So that’s what we are fighting for, the right deal for guys like you.”
    Shouldn't the players have the right to vote on what the right deal for them is? Who is to tell Glen Davis what is 'right' for him?


    Q: In fighting for the best deal, are you comfortable losing the season?

    Pierce: “I’m never comfortable with losing a season. I’m a part of a group that is taking a stand for something. Regardless of about how 400 players feel, at the end of the day we have to go all in or nothing. Regardless of what we do, we have to stick together. There are probably not a lot of players feeling [good about] suing the NBA. But this is what’s going on, this is what has to take place and this is where we are. So the players have to swallow that pill and hope for the best.”
    And what if it fails?

    Paul forgot the end of the 'hope for the best' and that is 'prepare for the worst'. Are the players prepared to lose all this money only to get a worse deal in the end? Actually, any deal will be worse in the end considering the money now lost will not be recouped during the next labour deal.

    Leave a comment:


  • Apollo
    replied
    The lockout will be settled when (if) full membership gets to vote, or when rank-and-file players feel economic pinch.
    Worried about their future cut, agents have far too much sway in negotiations.
    When players say "we're holding firm for future players," that's actually agents talking about their future cuts.
    It's easy for players with $50-100M banked to take a stand.
    Source: Twitter @Powell2daPeople

    Powell is pretty much saying what I've been saying in here. All the power in the Union is serving their own interests, not those who they represent. This isn't unique to the NBA by any means but it's coming close to the time when somebody is going to need to lead a rally against the stars and agents. They're all leading the way to the average NBA player getting burned badly.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bendit
    replied
    Matt52 wrote: View Post
    My favourite line in this:
    My own view is that Hunter knew at the outset that going the decertification route was a losing proposition (he has a relationship with DeMaurice Smith) and was going for the best deal. Circumstances just overtook him where agents and some hawk players got overly emotional and took over events (it wasnt him or Fisher who sat in on conference calls with litigators getting advice on decertifying). Oh well it doesn't matter now. The crux of the piece as well as the Grantham interview is the same...leverage, emotion, business.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bendit
    replied
    GarbageTime wrote: View Post
    and BC somehow manages to get burned agained.....
    I also noticed he didnt mention either BC or the Raptors! That was an odd hiring.

    Leave a comment:


  • GarbageTime
    replied
    Bendit wrote: View Post
    by Bill Simmons, ....many truisms in my view.


    http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/...ss-vs-personal

    and BC somehow manages to get burned agained.....

    The owners claim they need a better financial model, and yet, they're the ones recycling the same incompetent executives — seriously, someone is hiring Ed Stefanski again????

    Leave a comment:


  • mcHAPPY
    replied
    Bendit wrote: View Post
    by Bill Simmons, ....many truisms in my view.


    http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/...ss-vs-personal

    My favourite line in this:

    I wouldn't let Billy Hunter negotiate an eBay bid for me at this point.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bendit
    replied
    A fairly balanced (and humourously written) view of the blowup

    by Bill Simmons, ....many truisms in my view.


    http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/...ss-vs-personal

    Leave a comment:

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