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The Lockout & the Raptors: Players approve CBA, Owners too! (1944)

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  • Apollo wrote: View Post
    I see you go for one of those other 29 teams without a 2010/2011 Championship.
    Yes. And my team didn't even make the friggin playoffs.

    Back on topic, all current player pics have been taken down on NBA.com. My theory is that it's a legal issue. Anyone hear anything about it?
    It is. I heard a few weeks ago that all NBA sites would have to remove any and all pictures and/or promotions for players in the event of a lockout. I can't find the reference off hand though.

    Comment


    • Chuck says there will be no season

      "It's going to get ugly. I've already been on the record saying I don't think they're going to play at all next season," Hall of Famer and TNT analyst Charles Barkley said yesterday.
      Source: Philly.com

      Comment


      • Player Profit sharing?

        Players want owners to profit share since some the 'have' owners (7 of the 29 who do make money) could make enough to cover the losses of the 22 who (allegedly) don't.

        How would the players respond to profit sharing. ...

        ok boys here is 60 mill go divide it up equally? .... ANARCHY.... why?

        should Bargs make the same as Dirk?.... no
        should Kleiza make the same as Bron...?
        Should Doug Cristie have made the same as Jordan
        How about Oliver Miller and Tim Duncan?

        The obvious answer is no because Tim Duncan watches what he eats and works out religiously and makes far more sacrifices to reward his fans with countless seasons of excellent play.

        Same goes for ownership - Clippers are in the gutter because of crappy ownership who has done the least of all the franchises - Dallas is the opposite. For Mark Cuban to share profits with other owners who don't put in half the blood sweat and tears as he does/did would be criminal.

        I am with the owners on this one. NBA players are the best paid in the world and there are a lot of teams who are loosing money.,,, and no way in he11 would they accept profit sharing.
        "I may be wrong ... but I doubt it"

        Comment


        • The players HAVE been profit sharing for years. Not sure this is really all that controversial.

          And just to add, it's "losing", not "loosing". I normally wouldn't say anything, but I find a lot of people seem to confuse the two. There's no such word as "loosing".
          Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
          Follow me on Twitter.

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          • if i'm a locked out and dissatisfied star

            hey chris paul, dwight howard. if you get locked out it is not a threat but an opportunity... an opportunity to put together on your own a 4-team round-robin and elimination tourney.

            4 elite teams playing in a short series could be very memorable and would remind the nba who holds the power.

            Comment


            • charlz wrote: View Post
              I am with the owners on this one. NBA players are the best paid in the world and there are a lot of teams who are loosing money.,,, and no way in he11 would they accept profit sharing.
              Screw that, the owners are causing this crap and instead of letting the weak ones suffer and learn from their own self inflicted pain, they want the players to make further concessions. It's not healthy for the league to allow inept owners to socialize the league and to balance their books by concessions that have nothing to do with a free market. There is no need for the fan to be given the FINGER, and that is what the owners are doing collectively now. They are using us the fans to stick it to the players. It's evil, and it shows that the only respect they have is for money not the game.

              Creating social programs to help inept owners out of problems of their own making is not going to be healthy for the league nor does it prevent these idiots from getting into financial quicksand in the future. If you could not figure out how to make money in the NBA with the attention that the league was getting, TV contracts and revenue sharing than asking for further communist style assistance is not going to help.

              I don't think its a good idea to get into the habit of subsidizing weakness. Communist ideas in a Capitalistic system that work in the favour of those on top are a riot to me. I am eating my popcorn and being entertained by the brain wash. LOL, "those evil players", I bet you half these guys would have a hard time doing fractions, and you are going to tell me that it is the players that are at fault? All these ivy league law degrees and a brain trust to match, but Carmelo and Derek Fisher are the ones that outwitted the ownership.

              ... I like what is going on because it is clear to see who the EVIL bastards are. The players did not stop the game, the owners did. Due to that I want them to be raped financially, even wish the NBA falls apart and a new basketball league takes its place where the FANS are not USED the way the owners are using US to take a bigger slice out of the pie.

              None of this is about the game or basketball. The owners are not interested in the fans suffering, all they care about is money, even if that means hurting the game itself. Your loyalty means nothing to the owners, in fact they are counting on your loyalty when they take the product away from you. They want you to go after the players! How anyone could be on the side of ownership is beyond me. Owners are the first one to play Russian Roulette wit the gun , the lockout is a perfect example of this carelessness. Yet the whole time, they are the ones with the choice of what they pay out and what they don't.

              So collectively, they can not agree amongst themselves to cut back the purse strings, BUT they don't mind LEGISLATING the players to do so. LOL. If you don't see how much control the owners have and always had, than you just don't get it... for them to act like they are victims is more than funny to me. The players gave them all their concessions last time. It just made the fatter pigs act less and less efficiently instead of prompting them to improve upon how their business's are run.
              Last edited by MyMomLovesMe; Sun Jul 3, 2011, 06:30 AM.

              Comment


              • charlz wrote: View Post
                Players want owners to profit share since some the 'have' owners (7 of the 29 who do make money) could make enough to cover the losses of the 22 who (allegedly) don't.

                How would the players respond to profit sharing. ...

                ok boys here is 60 mill go divide it up equally? .... ANARCHY.... why?

                should Bargs make the same as Dirk?.... no
                should Kleiza make the same as Bron...?
                Should Doug Cristie have made the same as Jordan
                How about Oliver Miller and Tim Duncan?

                The obvious answer is no because Tim Duncan watches what he eats and works out religiously and makes far more sacrifices to reward his fans with countless seasons of excellent play.

                Same goes for ownership - Clippers are in the gutter because of crappy ownership who has done the least of all the franchises - Dallas is the opposite. For Mark Cuban to share profits with other owners who don't put in half the blood sweat and tears as he does/did would be criminal.

                I am with the owners on this one. NBA players are the best paid in the world and there are a lot of teams who are loosing money.,,, and no way in he11 would they accept profit sharing.
                Last time I checked, the lakers are making the second most money in the league, but they spend the most by the largest margin. Jerry Buss can sit back and the lakers would still rake in the money. He would not be able to do it if it was not for teams like the Kings and Bucks.

                Comment


                • Silver lining for Raptors fans

                  *Note this thread will be moved to Lockout and Raptors in a day or two*

                  If the lockout goes on for a long time, there is a very good silver lining for basketball fans and hardcore Raptors fans: US College Basketball. The 2011-12 NCAA season is looking to be one of the most exciting in years. Regardless of how the draft ranking are arranged, the Raptors look to be a lottery team with only a 31 win average over the last 3 seasons.


                  Keeping Hoops Fans Busy

                  I've heard some people say December, others January, and the most pessimistic analysts have thrown out the idea that there might not be any season at all. No matter how you shake it, there's a very strong likelihood that that we're not going to have an appropriate portion of NBA entertainment on our plates this year. That means those of us that are admittedly addicted to basketball are going to have to find other outlets.

                  So what are those outlets, and how do we eek enjoyment out these particular Plan B's? Obviously, college basketball will go on as scheduled, and there are more legitimate NBA prospects in the field this season than there have been in quite a few years. There's also the D-League, which will reportedly go on unimpeded these year, and international hoops, which may include an unprecedented number of NBA players.

                  Why should we care about college, D-League, and foreign ball? For starters, that's where literally every NBA player eventually comes from. Secondly, there actually are some stories worth following in all those leagues.

                  Expect most of the attention head towards college, though, where all sorts of teams hold plenty of interest for those looking to find an escape in the absence of the NBA. Kentucky might be the most exciting to watch, as they've got just a huge smattering of players that could end up in the League someday. Anthony Davis and Terrence Jones are the most notable, but Marquis Teague, Michael Gilchrist, and Doron Lamb could all end up drafted, too. Not that Kentucky doesn't always end up with loads of draftees, but this year's group seems particularly stellar.

                  North CarolinaHarrison Barnes, Tyler Zeller, and John Henson all are returning this year after flirting with the idea of the draft, while new recruits James McAdoo and P.J. Hairston make the team even more ridiculously deep with talent.

                  As for Duke, they may have lost Kyrie Irving, Nolan Smith, and Kyle Singler in the most recent draft, but they usher in plenty of really good new recruits, most notably Austin Rivers and Quinn Cook, both of whom have NBA potential. Plus, with three Plumlees, none of which are multiples, there's a fun dynamic forming there where like 20% of the roster is related to one another.

                  Baylor's got two top-five draft picks for 2012 on the same team in Perry Jones and Quincy Miller, Syracuse will be good with awesomely-named guys like Rakeem Christmas, Scoop Jardine, and Fab Melo leading the charge, and UConn will try to defend their title without Kemba Walker (which I think we all know is pretty unlikely).

                  And these are just the players and teams we know will be good. There are always some surprises, too, which means you've all just been given an introduction to non-NBA basketball for the upcoming several months. We've got to have some sort of basketball to watch, right? Luckily, college hoops should be especially entertaining this year if you can find it in yourself to care about the NCAA. Even those of you that haven't in the past might just have to dig in.

                  As bad as the lockout will be for the NBA, it could potentially be very good for college basketball, and it's good for the rest of us that we've at least got some high-level hoops to enjoy in the meantime.

                  Read more NBA news and insight: http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?...#ixzz1R3LZPAxW
                  It will be interesting to see who becomes the next Derrick Williams as well - i.e. a current college player who becomes a beast this summer.

                  Comment


                  • The players made all the concessions on the last CBA.

                    The owners had rules that favoured them unlike anything they had in the past, during the Jordan days. Making money in this league was like shooting fish in a barrel.


                    So what happened? Well, often what happens is that fat cats get used to subsides and start to take those for granted. In this case owners took advantage of the easy credit banks were pushing on so many. Now they are stuck, and the bankers do not want to make any concessions (they cant lock the bankers out), so its back to putting the heat on the players.


                    Again, the players gave EVERYTHING the owners wanted in the last CBA, and the owners still managed to mess it up. You can't keep subsiding greedy owners, they will keep cutting salaries until there is nothing left to cut.


                    Who is choosing to close the doors on the game? The owners. Players have done EVERY stupid thing they were asked to since the last CBA. The owners did not change to improve their business model one bit, because they did not have to.

                    They will keep being stupid, until its their own money. As long as they can keep eating the players side of the pie when things don't go so well, there is no incentive to change or to deal with the bad apples amongst them.


                    I hope the league loses an entire season. I hope that season ticket holders in other parts of the country learn to spend their money on other more productive things and never come back. I hope Stern is run out of league vicinity with pitch forks by the owners who are leading the mob. I hope the players remain strong and stand up to these corrupt assholes. It will cost them plenty, but its important that this stunt costs OWNERSHIP millions and hopefully billions so that they never pull this EVIL shit again.
                    Last edited by MyMomLovesMe; Sun Jul 3, 2011, 12:54 PM.

                    Comment


                    • NBA Players May Go To Europe During Lockout

                      Larry Coon has written a "lockout FAQ" here. It contains, amongst other things, this passage:
                      Can NBA players play overseas during a lockout?
                      The answer to this one is "It's complicated." Stern said as far as he's concerned, the players can do what they want to do. But keep in mind, he's going to say that regardless -- he doesn't want to appear in any way to be trying to prevent the players from earning a living. Labor laws don't allow an employer to lock out its employees and prevent them from earning a living elsewhere.

                      Ultimately, it doesn't matter what Stern says or does -- the decision isn't up to him.

                      In order to play professionally overseas, FIBA (the organizing body for international basketball) requires a Letter of Clearance from the player's national organizing body. In the case of players from the United States, that's USA Basketball. The Letter of Clearance certifies that the player is free to sign a contract -- i.e., he has no other contractual obligations that would get in the way. An NBA contract is such a contractual obligation. Lockout or not, it's still an existing contract. So on the surface, an NBA player who's under contract would not be allowed to sign in any FIBA league. NBA free agents, on the other hand, can sign wherever they'd like.

                      But here's the rub -- we're getting into uncharted territory. FIBA has never found itself in this position before. FIBA could decide to alter or suspend its rule requiring a Letter of Clearance, or allow contracts to be signed so long as they contain language that says the contract becomes null and void immediately if the NBA lockout ends.

                      More likely, FIBA simply would stick to its existing rule, essentially punting the problem to the national organizing bodies. These bodies (such as USA Basketball) could decide to issue a Letter of Clearance notwithstanding the NBA lockout. Or they could issue a Letter of Clearance with a specific notation about the lockout -- essentially punting the problem right back to FIBA.

                      Finally, the NBA players could take FIBA and/or the national organizing bodies to court. The ability to block players in a lockout has never been tested through litigation, and once they're there, anything can happen.
                      Now, here's where I'm not sure I agree with Coon:

                      If players under contract are cleared to play in Europe, will there be a mass exodus?
                      It's doubtful. For one thing, there simply aren't enough teams with enough open roster spots to accommodate 400-plus NBA players. And the ones who do sign overseas will likely make only a fraction of what they earned in the NBA. The Euroleague and other FIBA leagues simply can't afford to pay NBA players commensurate with the salaries to which they've grown accustomed.

                      So we will probably see a few head overseas, but certainly not a Who's Who of NBA players.
                      1. "400-plus NBA players". It's likely that the best players would be the ones in high demand. That's a few dozen, not 400-plus.

                      2. "Open roster spots" -- I don't know how FIBA roster rules work. He may be correct here, but I'm not sure more than a few spots would be necessary per team. If the roster rules are anything like the NFL or baseball, they can be freed up easily.

                      3. "Salaries would be a fraction of what they got in the NBA" -- Rudy Fernandez has been offered more money than he was getting in the NBA. I don't know if money is what's keeping NBA players out of Europe as much as it is a cultural thing. These guys grow up dreaming about playing in the NBA. They don't necessarily consider another league to be an option. But let's say the superstar players would only get $6 million instead of $16 million. It's still more money than the $0 they're getting during the lockout. There's a lot of money in Europe even during this depression, and I think a few of the owners over there might think their revenues would go through the roof if a superteam of NBA stars like Bosh/Wade/James/Howard et al. was barnstorming across Europe. Who knows, they might also play a more entertaining style of ball than is played in the U.S.

                      Comment


                      • I definitly need to watch more collage ball.
                        Most people say its better then watching the nba anyway, plus i get to watch the rising stars.

                        Now to choose a favourite team...

                        Comment


                        • If Canada had its own Basketball league, this lockout would be the golden moment of opportunity. Imagine all the players that would join the league due to proximity. Imagine the turnout for games in Hamilton or London, Ontario if they had one or two NBA players on their rosters.

                          It's times like these, where 2nd'ary leagues earn their rep. Too bad we got nada, and the players have next to zero options on this continent.

                          Comment


                          • Woah.... I just a thought.....

                            What if all the best players from the Nba went to the euroleague?
                            Then the euroleague started attracting players from other countrys

                            Imagine one international Basketball league!

                            Comment


                            • The euro league has a lot of rules regarding imports. So even if they wanted to fill their rosters with top tier talent, they are limited in how many imports are allowed to be on the floor at any given time.

                              Also most teams have their contracts already signed, a team may have 1 or 2 spots and using those up on players that have no interest in being there long term, or share a commitment to the teams goal, may not be the wisest decision. The players would only go there for money. AI wants to do what AI does... he does not want to be a role player in that league. So even filling that 1 roster spot may change your team in a drastic way that may not be so productive for the unified vision in the long run.

                              So I don't think the eurolegue is a viable option.

                              What the players should do is setup up a some union games like the NHL players did in the past. That should make Stern see a little red. The fans will follow the talent not the NBA logo. They will sell out in a Hamilton, London, ON... Syracuse, Buffalo. Might as well take advantage of the freedom and earn some spending money while playing the game you love.
                              Last edited by MyMomLovesMe; Sun Jul 3, 2011, 11:36 PM.

                              Comment


                              • MyMomLovesMe wrote: View Post
                                If Canada had its own Basketball league, this lockout would be the golden moment of opportunity. Imagine all the players that would join the league due to proximity. Imagine the turnout for games in Hamilton or London, Ontario if they had one or two NBA players on their rosters.

                                It's times like these, where 2nd'ary leagues earn their rep. Too bad we got nada, and the players have next to zero options on this continent.
                                With NBA players turning up their noses at $200K contracts in Europe, I doubt they'd be willing to play in a Canadian league if there was one as money would not be near $200K.

                                Via HoopsHype.com:
                                Adrian Wojnarowski: Agents reaffirming lean Euro market for players. "What NBA guys will take $200K jobs now?" one says. "Most of 500K jobs are already taken."
                                Last edited by mcHAPPY; Mon Jul 4, 2011, 08:16 AM.

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