The Lockout & the Raptors: Players approve CBA, Owners too! (1944)

[GarbageTime]

Create harmony and balance? No. Prevent overspending and level the playing field a little. Definitely. Yes, GMs are going to try and overspend because if they don't try and win they end up being out of a job. And GMs will try and out bid one another for players they like. That's human nature.

Unless you want to make GMs unfireable, then you're going to always have GMs that will gamble and give out bigger contracts than they should to try and win.

On the other hand, you could have a league of L.A. Clippers....

But that won't change. All the same things will happen just within greater limits. Which means less total bad contracts, but each bad contract is exponentially worse.

But you hit the nail on the head as to where the problem is:

GMs are going to try and overspend because if they don't try and win they end up being out of a job. And GMs will try and out bid one another for players they like.

A hard cap will not change that. Watching a team go bankrupt will.

[Joey]

And that's EXACTLY why they need a good CBA in place. It's all well and good to say that the owners and GMs need to control themselves. It's another thing for them to go against their nature and 100,000 years of evolution.

But I've already asked how a good CBA will prevent a signing like that, and no one has been able to answer it.
Matt did say that the 'Stretch Exception' will offer some protection from that, but I'm not sure to what extent that will be effective.
The proposal everyone was pushing for the players to sign would have done nothing else (as far as I could tell) to dissuade a team with space from signing a player to a market ruining contracts. And as soon as it happens, another will get signed. And the market is effed.
A good CBA will limit the amount they can spend on salaries, yes. But everyone thought the old Salary Tax was bullet proof and no one would be willing to do thaat... whoops. They are going to abuse this one, and find the loops holes just they like did the others. They're 'savvy' businessmen, afterall.

[Tim W.]

That's what they said before the last CBA. And the one before. That's what they said when Oscar Robertson challenged the reserve clause in the 1970s - "Something must be done to stop Oscar or the NBA will cease to exist!". Come on, we all know as soon as this is over owners are going to be tripping over themselves to offer Kris Humphries a 5 year deal worth $45mm, along with a laundry list of other horrible contracts. How do we know this? Cause it happens every single time.... Anyone who believes that this time it will be different and this new system will create balance and harmony is either incredibuly naive, completely ignorant of history or both.

Create harmony and balance? No. Prevent overspending and level the playing field a little. Definitely. Yes, GMs are going to try and overspend because if they don't try and win they end up being out of a job. And GMs will try and out bid one another for players they like. That's human nature.

Unless you want to make GMs unfireable, then you're going to always have GMs that will gamble and give out bigger contracts than they should to try and win.

On the other hand, you could have a league of L.A. Clippers....

[mcHAPPY]

NATIONAL BASKETBALL ASSOCIATION v. WILLIAMS [1994]
In the collective bargaining of 1994 the NBPA demanded that the college draft, right of first refusal and salary cap system be abolished, choosing not to negotiate with the NBA until their current collective bargaining agreement expired. The NBA then filed suit in U.S. District Court claiming that the continued operation under the expired collective bargaining agreement would not violate antitrust laws because the continuance was covered by labor law rather than antitrust law and that they were lawful even if antitrust law was applied. The NBPA countered that a cartel such as the NBA member clubs should be barred from using economic coercion in collective bargaining. The court then ruled in July, 1994 that antitrust laws did not prevent employers from acting jointly when bargaining with a common union. On January 24, 1995 the U.S. Court of Appeals partially affirmed the decision of the U.S. District Court, ruling that antitrust laws could not be applied to the collective bargaining negotiations between the NBPA and NBA, and based on that, ruled that it did not need to address the college draft, right of first refusal and salary cap.


EWING v. NATIONAL BASKETBALL ASSOCIATION [1995]
In response to ongoing labor negotiations a group of dissident players (with Patrick Ewing, Michael Jordan, Stacey Augmon, Dale Davis, Alonzo Mourning, Howard Eisley and Stacey King as the plaintiffs and heavily influenced by player agent David Falk) files an antitrust suit in Federal Court on June 28, 1995 in Minneapolis claiming that the NBPA, under the direction of Executive Director Simon Gourdine and President Buck Williams was not keeping them informed on the labor negotiations, with the group also circulating petitions to decertify the union. The plaintiff’s main contentions being that the salary cap and college draft were illegal because the previous collective bargaining agreement had expired. The filing of the suit derailed the agreement between the NBA and NBPA and led to a decertification vote by the NBPA members and a lockout by the NBA on July 1. In September Judge David Doty said he would await the outcome of the player’s decertification movement before deciding to life the NBA lockout. Later in the month the NBA players voted 226-134 against decertification and the new collective bargaining agreement was ratified 25-2 by team representatives the next day.

http://apbrbasketball.blogspot.com/2...1987-1998.html

History of Anti-Trust in the NBA.

[Apollo]

There are many reasons why people make draft choices or signings or trades which turn out to be mistakes. I would guess 99% of the time they're gambling on the future. I'd imagine usually due to the pressure to perform to expectations to keep their job or pressure to keep their star player on board or what have you. Most people take gambles when they feel they need to. I would like to believe most managers in the NBA aren't dare devils and they got to where they are by proving proficiency in their field and being shrewd businessmen. Colangelo is a prime example of a guy working against the clock who seemed to take gambles to keep his star on board. His gamble failed and he lost the hand(even though I feel the deck was stacked against him from the onset).

[Tim W.]

All great points. Love this one the best. Haha

And that's EXACTLY why they need a good CBA in place. It's all well and good to say that the owners and GMs need to control themselves. It's another thing for them to go against their nature and 100,000 years of evolution.

[Apollo]

That's what they said before the last CBA. And the one before. That's what they said when Oscar Robertson challenged the reserve clause in the 1970s - "Something must be done to stop Oscar or the NBA will cease to exist!". Come on, we all know as soon as this is over owners are going to be tripping over themselves to offer Kris Humphries a 5 year deal worth $45mm, along with a laundry list of other horrible contracts. How do we know this? Cause it happens every single time.... Anyone who believes that this time it will be different and this new system will create balance and harmony is either incredibuly naive, completely ignorant of history or both.

Right, so give up and let all hell run loose? Is that fair to anyone outside of those handful of teams at the top? If you want to be successful you do the best with what you have to work with and hope for some good bounces. You learn from your mistakes and take measures to try and prevent them in the future. No doubt some owners will make stupid moves which seemed perfectly reasonable to them in their particular circumstances at the time but that doesn't mean its not worth doing anything to try and prevent it from happening in the future. Tim's analogy is bang on if only somebody would actually do something about the banks. Sometimes you need to set up mechanisms which protect people from themselves and others. It's not perfect but this isn't a perfect world. In my opinion you make the most out of what you have to work with or you're counter productive. Doing nothing to fix a problem because you're cynical doesn't sound like a great plan to me. It sounds like a great way to become stagnant/under productive.

[mcHAPPY]

That bolded statement is laughable....coming from the source.

Boies was perfectly willing to argue the case for the NFL which has a hard cap. How free market is that? Is there any pro sports league which operates in a real free market? Does a draft occur in a free market? Maybe he is working too hard.

That is the thing. How can a professional sports league not have these 'anti-labour' measures in place and be sustainable and successful?

[Joey]

That's what they said before the last CBA. And the one before. That's what they said when Oscar Robertson challenged the reserve clause in the 1970s - "Something must be done to stop Oscar or the NBA will cease to exist!". Come on, we all know as soon as this is over owners are going to be tripping over themselves to offer Kris Humphries a 5 year deal worth $45mm, along with a laundry list of other horrible contracts. How do we know this? Cause it happens every single time.... Anyone who believes that this time it will be different and this new system will create balance and harmony is either incredibuly naive, completely ignorant of history or both.

All great points. Love this one the best. Haha

[slaw]

Either way, something needs to be done. And changing the CBA is the best way to fix it. If it was just one or two teams, then you'd have a point. But this is like the banks in the US. You need to set up rules to prevent something you know will eventually happen.

That's what they said before the last CBA. And the one before. That's what they said when Oscar Robertson challenged the reserve clause in the 1970s - "Something must be done to stop Oscar or the NBA will cease to exist!". Come on, we all know as soon as this is over owners are going to be tripping over themselves to offer Kris Humphries a 5 year deal worth $45mm, along with a laundry list of other horrible contracts. How do we know this? Cause it happens every single time.... Anyone who believes that this time it will be different and this new system will create balance and harmony is either incredibuly naive, completely ignorant of history or both.

[Tim W.]

Read from bottom up, via Twitter.com:




As a fan of the Raptors and NBA, I cannot tell you how much I dislike the bold section.

So if there are going to be free market conditions, does that mean they are going to scrap the veteran minimum? I'm sure teams would be able to get players for less if it was an open market. I wonder how the rank and file players would feel about that?

[Bendit]

That bolded statement is laughable....coming from the source.

Boies was perfectly willing to argue the case for the NFL which has a hard cap. How free market is that? Is there any pro sports league which operates in a real free market? Does a draft occur in a free market? Maybe he is working too hard.

[Tim W.]

But it could also be argued that it wasn't the CBA at all responsible for the losses, but simply the bad decisions made by the Managers and Owners time and time again.

Either way, something needs to be done. And changing the CBA is the best way to fix it. If it was just one or two teams, then you'd have a point. But this is like the banks in the US. You need to set up rules to prevent something you know will eventually happen.

[ezz_bee]

I'm not sure he meant it as is written. I hope not anyway.
The players have never been fighting for a free-market.
Just something closer to, than what the owners are pushing for.

The problem is, imo, there actually are some players (like Wade, Lebron, Garnett, and Pierce) who are looking for complete freedom in the market... I don't believe that the majority want a free market, but I do believe there is a vocal faction of players that would be more than happy to have that free market. Although it may not be the end of the world, I do think that a free market would mean contraction.

[ezz_bee]

As a fan of the Raptors and NBA, I cannot tell you how much I dislike the bold section.

Me too