The Lockout & the Raptors: Players approve CBA, Owners too! (1944)

[heinz57]

They're millionaires because they play a game professionally.

FAIR would be a professional game player not getting paid more than doctors, nurses, firemen, cops...

Hell, I do volunteer work and regularly meet people who have dedicated their lives to philanthropy, but only gross like 25-30k a year, and they're totallycool with that.. FAIR is them making millions on the grounds of being totally awesome human beings..

FAIR is somebody who chooses to PLAY A FUCKING GAME making minimum wage

[Apollo]

Indeed. But I guess thats why I qualified it with "Both sides agree its fair".
Which is obviously fantastical thinking, but regardless. Thats what I want.
I'm of the belief that if your employees feel they are being slighted everyday they go to work, you won't be getting the best product out of them. Whether or not they are justified in feeling slighted, thats a whole other debate.

The Owners seem far more concerned about getting a profitable system for the whole fleet than not hurting feelings. All this will be forgotten about come the next post season.

Also you need to consider the idea that there was a significant group of people who liked the deal. I mean why else would the Union be so fearful of putting the offer to a vote? They're out to protect the interests of the loudest voices. The stars. Piece and Garnett have been posting consistent double doubles for month now. Ten crossed arm poses and ten pouts per meeting.

[mcHAPPY]

Man, was Rodgers supposed to be THIS good?!
Or their defense for that matter!



Indeed. But I guess thats why I qualified it with "Both sides agree its fair".
Which is obviously fantastical thinking, but regardless. Thats what I want.
I'm of the belief that if your employees feel they are being slighted everyday they go to work, you won't be getting the best product out of them. Whether or not they are justified in feeling slighted, thats a whole other debate.

You take away guaranteed contracts and I guarantee you will get the best out of them - and more than what they currently, OVERALL, put in.

OVERALL meaning some players, like Kobe, are self motivated and are already going at max and that statement would not apply to them individually but as a group I feel it does.

[Joey]

I have NFL football and a 9-0 team to cheer for. I'm good. Correction, I'm great. The Packers totally annihilated the Vikings last night.

Man, was Rodgers supposed to be THIS good?!
Or their defense for that matter!

I don't care about "fair". What is "fair" anyway? It's all interpretation. I want a hard cap and I want mechanisms in place to highly limit player movement(ie: franchise tag).

Indeed. But I guess thats why I qualified it with "Both sides agree its fair".
Which is obviously fantastical thinking, but regardless. Thats what I want.
I'm of the belief that if your employees feel they are being slighted everyday they go to work, you won't be getting the best product out of them. Whether or not they are justified in feeling slighted, thats a whole other debate.

[Apollo]

Geez, "Crushing Blow". "Total Domination".

Sounds like 'Mortal Kombat'!

I think, you may find this draining because you guys have emotionally involved yourselfs so heavily in something you actually have no effect over. I would certainly find it draining as well!

I just want something that is fair, and both sides agree it is fair.
I don't want anyone to be 'dominated'.

I'm not literally drained. It's just a saying. I have NFL football and a 9-0 team to cheer for. I'm good. Correction, I'm great. The Packers totally annihilated the Vikings last night.

I don't care about "fair". What is "fair" anyway? It's all interpretation. I want a hard cap and I want mechanisms in place to highly limit player movement(ie: franchise tag).

[Hugmenot]

So the owners are free to negotiate with the players right now?

Could the owners not dissolve the NBA, enter into a new agreement that starts a new league that has a hard cap like other sports leagues have, with the cap set at $30 million per team? Wouldn't that hurt the players? I must admit I am getting confused by the legal shinanigans.

What am I missing?

All commercial contracts between the NBA and other parties would be dissolved, and that's assuming creditors and other entities having commercial contracts with the NBA would let them dissolve without a legal fight.

The NBA is much more than team owners and players; it's a global product whose brand is much more popular, valuable, and lasting than any one single player.

[Joey]

Geez, "Crushing Blow". "Total Domination".

Sounds like 'Mortal Kombat'!

I think, you may find this draining because you guys have emotionally involved yourselfs so heavily in something you actually have no effect over. I would certainly find it draining as well!

I just want something that is fair, and both sides agree it is fair.
I don't want anyone to be 'dominated'.

[Apollo]

I'm with you Matt. This whole thing is draining. I want total domination now. The Owners/Players relationship is pretty much destroyed at this point so a total domination isn't going to do any more damage. I don't give a crap about what the Players feel they deserve because the Players goals are counter to what's best for the overall product.

It's too bad it come down to dividing the fans between sides as well.

We don't need to choose sides. Some people feel compelled to cheer for those who they normally cheer for on the court this time of year. Others feel compelled to support those who are proposing a long list of items that could greatly enhance the experience of fans who aren't lucky enough to have an owner with deep pockets running their favorite team. I think it was destined to be this way.

[Joey]

It's too bad it come down to dividing the fans between sides as well.

[mcHAPPY]

I think the owners could invent their own internal agreement(salary cap, exceptions, etc.) right now and start offering contracts. One catch would be that all 430 players would be free agents.

The players could then file an anti-trust suit based on collusion. There really is no way around this other than to a) come to an agreement of which no one seems to be willing to budge, or b) go through the courts which could take a long time.

How is a professional sports league expected to function in a sustainable manner without practices that are 'unfair' labour practices in any other business? These same 'unfair' labour laws are the same ones that guarantee a guy like Derek Fisher makes millions of dollars per year versus hundreds of thousands.

And this all comes back to curbing ways rich franchises can round out their roster after hoarding and concentrating talent from around the league.

I'm slowly losing interest and look forward to a lost season and hopefully a crushing blow to the players - as a fan that would be in my best interests and since everyone is looking out for themselves.... GO OWNERS!

[Joey]

I think the owners could invent their own internal agreement(salary cap, exceptions, etc.) right now and start offering contracts. One catch would be that all 430 players would be free agents.

Without having a Union to negotiate with, a Salary Cap is actually Illegal under Anti-Trust laws.
So they would first have to identify a new player union before any sort of Agreement could be made. I think.

If they just wanted to sign players to contracts, thats one thing. But it would be a completely open market until a new Union is established, thus allowing the NBA to negotiate under Labor Law, and outside of the Antitrust laws. This is my understanding anyway.

[Apollo]

Agents and players diploying the "close my eyes and swing with blind fury" strategy:

What’s more, the agents are also considering a lawsuit filed on behalf of the league’s rookies, sources said, citing that the rookies are not yet part of the union, and that they’re ready, willing and able to play in the NBA and have been denied the opportunity. The agents are going to keep filing suits to create chaos and uncertainty in the minds of the NBA owners and hope the threat of potential legal damages will coax them back to the bargaining table. And maybe, just maybe, they’ll go to court, get a lucky bounce and decimate the owners with damages.

Source: Yahoo Sports

I just don't buy this working for them. The Owners' probably all have their own legal teams and if they're smart, which they are, they've already walked through this whole scenario. I mean otherwise they probably wouldn't be a stone wall this week.

[Apollo]

I think the owners could invent their own internal agreement(salary cap, exceptions, etc.) right now and start offering contracts. One catch would be that all 430 players would be free agents.

[Puffer]

So the owners are free to negotiate with the players right now?

Could the owners not dissolve the NBA, enter into a new agreement that starts a new league that has a hard cap like other sports leagues have, with the cap set at $30 million per team? Wouldn't that hurt the players? I must admit I am getting confused by the legal shinanigans.

What am I missing?

Puffer

[Apollo]

Boies Interview

From a timing standpoint, how long can this take?

Boies: The owners could decide to open their doors and hire players today. They don't need a union for that. They could go off and hire people the way most businesses hire people. They could identify a person, they negotiate a salary, and there's absolutely no reason that couldn't happen right now.

A free market. Not what the owners are interested in right now even though that's what they have.

Boies: I don't think talks would continue.

If -- and I say if because first of all, we haven't filed a lawsuit -- a lawsuit were filed, but if a lawsuit were filed and if there was an interest in settling that lawsuit, then as Jeffrey says, what would happen is the lawyers for the players would meet the lawyers for the owners and we would try to come up with some kind of settlement.

That settlement would be something that would open up the league to play. But you would not have a collective bargaining solution.

Your first "if" supposes a lawsuit might not be filed?

Boies: I'm just saying, we're going to go back, we're going to assess this. Jeffrey probably has got decades more experience in this than I have. And we're going to go back and we're going to talk about what the right approach is. Maybe it's filing a lawsuit. Maybe it's not filing a lawsuit. We've got to figure out what the lawsuit would say if there is going to be a lawsuit. There's a lot that has to be worked out.

Translation: He doesn't even know if they have a case yet. Click the link for more.

Source: ESPN.com