The Lockout & the Raptors: Players approve CBA, Owners too! (1944)

[mcHAPPY]

Larry Coon providing some clarification on things:

Anthony Sanchez
It’s been said the salary cap for the 2012-2013 will be around $61 million. If that were the case, were would the tax threshold be?

Larry Coon
The best info I have right now is that the cap will be frozen at $58 million and the luxury tax threshold will be frozen at $70 million for two years. After that they will be tied to average team spending levels — the cap about five BRI points below average team salary levels, and the luxury tax about three BRI points above.

Brian
At this point, is all about a power struggle and the players not ‘giving in’ to a 50/50 BRI split? I know its not really a 50/50 revenue split with the exceptions the owners can take off the top, and that the next CBA will start at 50/50 for negotiating purposes but at some pt if the players would take 51, isnt time to take it at 50? Same for the owners, dont they just want to ensure this gets painted as a ’50/50′ split to the casual fan?

Larry Coon
No, it’s not just about a power struggle, or about the sides’ ability to save face. I think the two sides are farther apart than a lot of people would like to believe. The BRI split and the system are intertwined — the higher the split, the more restrictive the system has to be, and vice-versa.

The reason the last negotiating session ended so abruptly is because the sides negotiated on system issues, coming close to an agreement on a system that would allow the players to go to 50% on the split. But then the league said they couldn’t do that system with a 50% split — they backed their offer on the split back down to 47%. This is what David Aldridge said about it on NBA.com:

This is what the union’s executive director Billy Hunter meant Friday afternoon when he said the league “moved” back to 47. Those were the choices the league laid out to the union in Friday’s disheartening session, according to numerous sources. Fifty-fifty with almost nothing for the tax threshold-breakers, or 53-47 for the league with the negotiations the two sides had worked out all week.

In addition, Derek Fisher made comments about not being sure whether the owners were at 50 or 47, and Hunter talked about being “snookered.” It’s also why the sides didn’t finish-off the agreement after supposedly being so close. It’s because they’re not so close after all.

The league is offering 50%, but only when attached to a very restrictive system — a system that is unacceptable to the players.

I think if there really was an offer on the table that provided a 50% split with a system the sides had negotiated — including acceptable compromises on the remaining system issues — the players would take it. It might be work on Hunter’s & Fisher’s part to sell it to some of their hard-line constituents, but I’m betting it would get done.

The problem is, that offer isn’t on the table.

http://www.hoopsworld.com/nba-salary.../#comment-6261

[Tim W.]

If the "previous" salary cap numbers are being used for the next couple of years, then the Raptors will probably be looking at next summer to make a splash, if at all.

[mcHAPPY]

Via ESPN, via HoopsHype.com:

Ric Bucher: I'm hearing that the owners' resolve and they are willing this: to lose the entire season and get the absolute best deal that they can is gaining strenght at this point. ESPN.com


Chris Broussard: I'm hearing a lot of the same things that Ric has heard. At the beginning of the week I was told that if a deal is not done within a week and a half to two weeks, the 50/50 will no longer will be on the table from the owners. They will go now on the 46, 47 percent of BRI. They feel like if they lose this season the money they'll lose they will gain it back in over the next ten years because they will have a very favorable CBA if they not have this season. ESPN.com

I don't think the owners are bluffing, myself.

[MangoKid]

I don't think that they're bluffing either. Once games at the start of the season were lost, the sense of urgency was gone on their part. I have a feeling that this lockout could last a VERY long time. A new system needs to be in place and the owners will fight for it. Question now is: when the players start missing cheques, will they give in to the owner's whims or will they stick to their guns on this 'blood' issue?

[heinz57]

i havent been paying attention... has any player dropped a "how am i supposed to feed my family?" comment yet?

[Employee]

i havent been paying attention... has any player dropped a "how am i supposed to feed my family?" comment yet?

To be fair, it can be expensive to feed 12 kids from 12 different moms.

[Apollo]

I don't think that they're bluffing either. Once games at the start of the season were lost, the sense of urgency was gone on their part. I have a feeling that this lockout could last a VERY long time. A new system needs to be in place and the owners will fight for it. Question now is: when the players start missing cheques, will they give in to the owner's whims or will they stick to their guns on this 'blood' issue?

Their union cheques will run out in a month. Let's see the players' togetherness then.

[heinz57]

To be fair, it can be expensive to feed 12 kids from 12 different moms.

it's not expensive at all to throw a few ritz crackers in their cages a few times a day

i kid.... i would never feed my kids crackers or keep them in a cage..

that would imply acknowledging their existence.

I KID!!! i'd totally acknowledge their existence...

child support court forces you to

[MangoKid]

it's not expensive at all to throw a few ritz crackers in their cages a few times a day

i kid.... i would never feed my kids crackers or keep them in a cage..

that would imply acknowledging their existence.

I KID!!! i'd totally acknowledge their existence...

child support court forces you to

Ritz crackers are too expensive. I'd throw them some No Name brand crackers.

[mcHAPPY]

League, players to resume talks Saturday

After breaking off talks last Friday, the NBA and players’ union are expected to resume face to face negotiations this Saturday in New York, according to involved sources.

We’re still awaiting confirmation from the league office, but sources say the plan is pretty much set.

The sides have been working within their own groups for the most part in these last days, setting their positions and deciding whether they will move from their most recent offers — and, if so, by how much.


http://www.bostonherald.com/blogs/sp...alks-saturday/

Confirmed by Larry Coon via twitter.

[mcHAPPY]

Players pushing nuclear option

Via HoopsHype.com:

Adrian Wojnarowski: As many as 50 NBA players were part of conference call with anti-trust attorney Thursday discussing union decertification, sources tell Y! Twitter

A group of 50 N.B.A. players intend to push for the dissolution of their union if a new round of labor negotiations fails this weekend, or if the talks produce an unpalatable deal, according to a person who has spoken to the players. The movement was said to be entirely player-driven, and borne of a frustration with the pace of talks between the league and union leaders. The players have been locked out since July 1, and a month of games have been canceled. New York Times

Adrian Wojnarowski: There were two conference calls held this week -- Tuesday and Thursday -- without knowledge of NBPA officials, sources tell Y! Twitter

Adrian Wojnarowski: Calls included several All-Stars. One source on calls told Y!: "We're beyond frustrated with concessions that have already been made." Twitter

Two conference calls were held this week between the players and an antitrust lawyer — once on Tuesday and again on Thursday. It is not clear whether union leaders have been directly informed of the effort. “And the players are seriously considering decertification if a deal is not reached where the players’ proposals are in the final elements of the deal,” said the person connected to the players. New York Times

Adrian Wojnarowski: Here was theme: If NBPA drops below 52% on BRI, and/or remaining system issues go league's way, then this will become movement to decertify. Twitter


Howard Beck: Decertification drive would mean it is done w/out union officials' participation or approval essentially dismissing them. Twitter

Howard Beck: Remember, there are two ways to dissolve a union: disclaimer (by union officials) or decertification (initiated by players themselves)... Twitter

Adrian Wojnarowski: To decertify, 30 percent of NBA players need to sign petition to bring it to vote. Then, simple majority of 400-plus needed to dissolve it. Twitter

Zach Lowe: To be clear, I don't know if union is aware, and decert would cost Hunter his job. Just reached union official, who declined comment. Twitter

Brian T. Smith: #NBA has pending case requesting all existing contracts are voided if #TheNBPA decertifies. Twitter

If the players are frustrated with the pace of talks now, go ahead, decertify, spend the next year in court. Dumb asses.


The players are taking a $4B dollar gamble. I hope they are getting good advice. Lawyers will be going crazy over billable hours they can charge and might be a little biased. Personally, I don't know if they have a valid case or not but no one is forcing them to play in the NBA.

*EDIT*

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/...strong-message

Larry Coon does a great job addressing decertification, what it means, the process to it, and possible implications. Worth the click.

[heinz57]

so wait..... if the players decertify, there's no more player union?

so the interests of millionaires wont be protected by anyone... robbing them of an institution created to protect the underpriveleged working class...

seriously... they can go f$%# themselves...

sadly... i kinda dont even want a season anymore.. i just want to see overpriveleged overwealthy imbeciles suffer.

[Hugmenot]

If the players are frustrated with the pace of talks now, go ahead, decertify, spend the next year in court. Dumb asses.

It would be interesting to see how the public and, more importantly, the court react when players argue they needed to take this action to protect their $5 million a year salaries when seeking damages.

Surreal.

Larry Coon does a great job addressing decertification, what it means, the process to it, and possible implications. Worth the click.

Mr. Colon's article fails to mention that it's possible the court will rule in favor of the owners if they petition the court to void all player contract following the union decertification. Yes, the risk to the NBA is huge but I would say the risk to the rank-and-file players is catastrophic; not only most will never recover their loss wages, I am guessing many would be in danger of going bankrupt in a short time horizon.

I believe decertification would serve the superstars in the short term but all bets are off as to what would be the state of the NBA 5 years later.

[mcHAPPY]

It would be interesting to see how the public and, more importantly, the court react when players argue they needed to take this action to protect their $5 million a year salaries when seeking damages.

Surreal.


Mr. Colon's article fails to mention that it's possible the court will rule in favor of the owners if they petition the court to void all player contract following the union decertification. Yes, the risk to the NBA is huge but I would say the risk to the rank-and-file players is catastrophic; not only most will never recover their loss wages, I am guessing many would be in danger of going bankrupt in a short time horizon.

I believe decertification would serve the superstars in the short term but all bets are off as to what would be the state of the NBA 5 years later.

If the courts rule in favour of the owners, I believe you could see a situation where owners cherry pick contracts to void - as there is no CBA protecting players. In essence it would be like any other private job situation.

I think the players are blowing hot air to combat the owners assertion offers will get worse.

If the players decertify and win, they could come out ahead financially in the short term. They could sue for 3x ($6B) the compensation of their current salaries ($2B). In the long term every player who is not a superstar will suffer greatly and the league would probably contract a number of franchises.

[slaw]

Should have been done months ago. If the players get a decertification vote, a deal will be negotiated in weeks if not days. No one wants to risk the uncertainty of litigation. A treble damages award would likely bankrupt some owners and would end the NBA as we know it. No one will risk that.

Best news in months...