The Lockout & the Raptors: Players approve CBA, Owners too! (1944)

[Apollo]

Here we go again

NBPA Executive committee members privately expressing unprecedented optimism that a deal will get done this time. League sources too.

Source: Twitter @sam_amick

Seriously, this time we mean it.

[mcHAPPY]

What owners/players continue to squabble over with season on the line

So here is a look at what is on the players’ wish list. Remember, when the players offered to do a 50-50 split, they did so with the caveat that they’d need five or six key system changes to drop to that number. Thus far, they haven’t gotten enough of those changes.

_ The mid-level exception: The sides have already agreed on the max salary for mid-level free agents — a $5 million starting salary– who sign with teams that are beneath the luxury tax threshold. The owners want teams to be limited to offering a four-year mid-level contract one year, then a three-year mid-level the next, then back to four, then three, etc. In numerals, it is 4-3-4-3-4-3. If the owners go to 4-4-4-4-4-4, one item is off the table.

_ The mini mid-level: This is the exception that would be available to teams above the luxury tax threshold, and the owners have already moved from a max of $5 million spread over two years to allow taxpaying teams to offer three-year deals. The small-market owners are pretty hard-core on this one, because they do not want system in which the highest earning teams (i.e. the Lakers) can compete on a level playing field in the mid-level free agent market. That is also the reason why owners want taxpaying teams to be excluded from executing sign-and-trade deals.

_ The escrow system:I wrote about this yesterday, describing it as the most contentious of the remaining disputed issues. Escrow funds are withheld from players’ paychecks to ensure that total salaries do not exceed a pre-determined percentage. The players are willing to have 10 percent withheld, but there is a question of what will happen if those funds do not reduce the players’ share to 50 percent of BRI. Does the shortage carry over into the next season? Do the players have to dip into a different pool of money (pension benefits, group licensing revenues) to make up the difference? This will be a tough nut to crack.

_ The split: It has become common to say that the sides have agreed to a 50-50 split of basketball related income, but it actually is little more complicated. The owners have proposed a split in which the players would receive between 49 and 51 percent of designated revenues, but the players have complained that the realistic ceiling is 50.2 percent. If they do not get all the system changes they are seeking, they want the rules loosened so that a 51 percent ceiling (or a 50.4 percent or 50.6 percent share) becomes more achievable.

_ The pay-for-performance issue: When Derrick Rose becomes an unrestricted free agent, he will be eligible for a max salary equal to 25 percent of the salary cap. Veterans with 7-9 years of service can get 30 percent, and players with 10 or more years in the league can get 35 percent. The sides have discussed instituting a system under which certain young players would be eligible for a 30 percent max contract if they achieve certain benchmarks while playing under the rookie scale. In Rose’s case, winning the MVP award last season would push him into 30 percent eligibility territory. The question for today is what other types of benchmarks can be set that would put other young players into the 30 percent eligibility category.

_ Restricted free agency: The sides have already agreed that the matching period for teams at risk of losing a restricted free agent will be cut from 7 days to 3. Still unresolved is the size of the qualifying offers that must be made to restricted free agents in order for teams to retain matching rights. The players want big increases in the size of qualifying offers in order to make restricted free agency even less restrictive.

_ The Carmelo Anthony rule: Owners want to prohibit the type of extend-and-trade deal that Anthony wrangled out of the Denver Nuggets last season when he forced his old team to trade him to the New York Knicks. This system issue could have an immediate impact on Dwight Howard and Deron Williams. If the prohibition stays, Williams and Howard are going to lose a lot of leverage if they plan to force their way out of New Jersey/Brooklyn and Orlando, respectively. They could still be traded during the upcoming season, but their new teams would have to re-sign them as unrestricted free agents in the summer of 2012.

Source: SheridanHoops.com

The pay for performance pisses me off. The players want it both ways with reward for over achievement relative to contract and no accountability for lack of performance once the ink dries on the new contract (excluding injuries, of course).

And don't forget the B-list items!

[mcHAPPY]

I found the source here: http://www.nba.com/2011/news/feature...lks/index.html



I'm still ticked off that they didn't talk today though.. one less day to negotiate means a greater chance of missing a season.

Thanks for the find.


Woj with an update surely dropped to him by an agent:

WojYahooNBA As president of NBPA, Fisher and players have to protect selves from league charge that disbanding of union was a "sham" negotiating tactic.

WojYahooNBA Derek Fisher will attend Friday's labor settlement meeting, source tells Y! Given legal complications, it suggests a deal is within reach.

Representatives of the owners and players spoke on Tuesday and Wednesday to discuss the possible settlement of the players’ recent antitrust lawsuits – which would essentially be an agreement on a new collective bargaining agreement. It’s felt Fisher’s appearance is needed to reach agreement on a deal.

Several high-ranking sources – on the league and players sides – believe there’s a do-or-die nature to getting a deal done to start the season on Dec. 25 and preserve a 66-game regular season.

Once again, the Players Association will have familiar negotiating faces in the room with the owners’ representatives: Fisher, executive director Billy Hunter, staff lawyer Ron Klempner and antitrust suit lawyers. Some on the players’ side still fear Stern is setting up the players with these talks and will use the participation of key union figures to show the disbanding of the union wasn’t for the purpose of filing antitrust suit in court, but gaining leverage in negotiations. Fisher understood the consequences, but sources believe there’s so much motivation to reach an agreement to end the lockout he needed to join the negotiating sessions.

“They felt they needed Derek there to continue,” one high-ranking league official told Yahoo! Sports.

The deal still centers on agreeing upon several key issues, including the escrow system and the use of full midlevel exceptions for tax-playing teams. The players are willing to agree to a 50-50 revenue split with the owners, provided some system issues are resolved. The owners appear to have again backed off their threats to return to a “reset” offer of a 53-47 revenue split in the owners’ favor and a hard salary cap.

Source: Yahoo!

[Apollo]

I do understand how important Thanksgiving is to the US. I have family in the US, and this holiday is a big deal, but I would have considered missing Christmas games the breaking point. Otherwise what are we going to get? Another 50 game season? That was a joke. A lot of people in the league even admitted that they'd rather have a canceled season then a 50 game season.

Who are these people? I'm assuming they're not the players who currently are not getting paid or those players who were concerned enough to go play in China, Greece, etc.

Christmas is exactly 30 days from now. Since today is a write off, that means Christmas games are canceled - and with that hope of a season.

If they truly cared about the Christmas games and felt that was the breaking point do you feel it would be wise to blow off negotiations until now? I mean seriously, if they cared they'd have been talking about this before Thanksgiving.

These guys should be talking all the time, not when its convenient for their families, or else it makes it seem like they honestly don't really care about getting the season up and running again. If the league nor the players really care about the season, then I guess why should I as a fan really care either.. it's just sad really.

They should be talking all the time so that they don't need to worry about fans questioning why they're not all meeting in some stuffy conference room while the critical ones are sipping beers, eating turkey, watching football and enjoying their national holiday with their family and friends.

The Owners have placed the onus on the Players to come back. The Players haven't been calling. They need every games more than the Owners.

[mcHAPPY]

It may well be that they are in fact done talking. There is a post above from Matt indicating that Stern is putting together another formal offer with some adjustment favourable to the players. This and Fisher's presence (travel) for the final decision and taking the pulse on both sides probably necessitates the 24 hr. break. Actually doubt if there'll be too much time for sweet potato pie if this scenario has substance.

With the original framework still being used, they really have little to discuss. Talks very well could be over.

I hope this time Stern just says, "Here. This is what we can do. If you don't want to accept it, we'll figure it out in court and likely lose the season." and then leaves it at that - no Twitterview, no ESPN interviews, no confrontations, no anonymous 'sources' from the league.... just reality with no spin or rhetoric.

*EDIT* Actually the B-list items could take some time. I would hope the owners would be very 'giving' on this front since they have basically crushed the players where it matters most and accounted for all their collective financial losses.

[Nilanka]

If Stern really is in the process of preparing another offer, let's hope the players are actually allowed to vote on it. Novel idea, I know....

[Tim W.]

I was wondering the same. I believe that 30-day estimate includes 2-3 preseason games. I'm wondering if any preseason games are necessary at all. I realize the first 5-10 games could be quite ugly, but hey, desperate times call for desperate measures.

I'm guessing they want at least a few preseason games to pare down the rosters, since teams usually have expanded rosters during training camp and the preseason.

[Bendit]

I found the source here: http://www.nba.com/2011/news/feature...lks/index.html



I'm still ticked off that they didn't talk today though.. one less day to negotiate means a greater chance of missing a season.

It may well be that they are in fact done talking. There is a post above from Matt indicating that Stern is putting together another formal offer with some adjustment favourable to the players. This and Fisher's presence (travel) for the final decision and taking the pulse on both sides probably necessitates the 24 hr. break. Actually doubt if there'll be too much time for sweet potato pie if this scenario has substance.

[planetmars]

I was wondering the same. I believe that 30-day estimate includes 2-3 preseason games. I'm wondering if any preseason games are necessary at all. I realize the first 5-10 games could be quite ugly, but hey, desperate times call for desperate measures.

I found the source here: http://www.nba.com/2011/news/feature...lks/index.html

NBA commissioner David Stern has said repeatedly that the league would need 30 days from a handshake deal to tipoff of a regular season, not only to ratify a new collective bargaining agreement but to prepare for the business of basketball (free agency, training camps, a possible "preseason" game or two). That would suggest a deadline of Friday, Nov. 25, for Christmas to remain in play.

But a source close to the settlement talks told NBA.com the turnaround time "theoretically" could be tightened by several days. Technically, the players' antitrust litigation that otherwise is set to begin next month in U.S. District Court in Minneapolis would have to be resolved out of court. An agreement would provide a framework for a new CBA between the owners and a re-formed union.

I'm still ticked off that they didn't talk today though.. one less day to negotiate means a greater chance of missing a season.

[Nilanka]

I read somewhere in the last day that the idea of 30 days to get a season up and running could probably have a few days shaved off.

I was wondering the same. I believe that 30-day estimate includes 2-3 preseason games. I'm wondering if any preseason games are necessary at all. I realize the first 5-10 games could be quite ugly, but hey, desperate times call for desperate measures.

[mcHAPPY]

The threat might be perceived as credible simply because of the short time left to start the season by xmas.

I hope it is perceived as credible because I don't think the league does a season with less than 60 games.

[mcHAPPY]

I do understand how important Thanksgiving is to the US. I have family in the US, and this holiday is a big deal, but I would have considered missing Christmas games the breaking point. Otherwise what are we going to get? Another 50 game season? That was a joke. A lot of people in the league even admitted that they'd rather have a canceled season then a 50 game season.

Christmas is exactly 30 days from now. Since today is a write off, that means Christmas games are canceled - and with that hope of a season.

These guys should be talking all the time, not when its convenient for their families, or else it makes it seem like they honestly don't really care about getting the season up and running again. If the league nor the players really care about the season, then I guess why should I as a fan really care either.. it's just sad really.

I read somewhere in the last day that the idea of 30 days to get a season up and running could probably have a few days shaved off.

I tend to read so many articles and tweets in the run of a day you'll have to take my word for it. I have no clue where I came across it today.

[Nilanka]

Given the league has not gone to the 47%/flex cap/rollback offer they said they would, I'm not sure if the players take a take-it-or-leave-it threat seriously

The threat might be perceived as credible simply because of the short time left to start the season by xmas.

[planetmars]

I don't think you appreciate how big a holiday Thanksgiving is in the States. One day means little in my opinion. They've been killing time for months now. To me it doesn't make much sense to burn meaningless days and then when a major holiday comes up that's important to all their families suddenly they must meet because it's now or never. Today, tomorrow, we know the outcome. Nothing gets accomplished and a truck load of meaningless contradicting rumors gets dumped on the media. We're not at the breaking point yet.

I do understand how important Thanksgiving is to the US. I have family in the US, and this holiday is a big deal, but I would have considered missing Christmas games the breaking point. Otherwise what are we going to get? Another 50 game season? That was a joke. A lot of people in the league even admitted that they'd rather have a canceled season then a 50 game season.

Christmas is exactly 30 days from now. Since today is a write off, that means Christmas games are canceled - and with that hope of a season.

These guys should be talking all the time, not when its convenient for their families, or else it makes it seem like they honestly don't really care about getting the season up and running again. If the league nor the players really care about the season, then I guess why should I as a fan really care either.. it's just sad really.

[mcHAPPY]

Consider the source and go find a huge grain of salt...

NBA commissioner David Stern is reportedly preparing a final offer on behalf of the league’s owners that will lead either to the end of the lockout, or to the end of the season.ESPN is reporting that Stern will improve the previous offer made to the players, which was ultimately rejected – a development that kickstarted the dissolving of the players’ union and the filing of a number of lawsuits.The terms of the new offer are expected to come with a take-it-or-leave-it provision – meaning that if the players don’t accept the proposal, Stern will proceed with the cancellation of the entire 2011-12 campaign.The two sides met for two days earlier this week in an attempt to sort out the various legal developments, a necessary component in the resumption of negotiations on a new collective bargaining agreement.The league and union will get together Friday following a one-day Thanksgiving break.Union president Derek Fisher has been excluded from the latest round of negotiations, according to sources. Also, it appears that that the players have replaced lead negotiator Jeffrey Kessler with Jim Quinn, a former chief outside counsel to the union.

Stern and Kessler have an acrimonious relationship while Quinn has worked well with both Stern and Hunter over the years and was credited with helping to settle a lockout in 1998-99. The two sides have been embroiled in a tense relationship as they work to hammer out a new collective bargaining agreement. The standoff has already resulted in the cancellation of the first six weeks of regular-season games.

The NBA has reportedly prepared a 66-game schedule which would begin with games Christmas Day in the event the two sides reach an agreement shortly.

The league and union remain apart on several key issues, including the division of basketball-related income (BRI). The league’s final offer contained a 50-50 split, while the players have said they would only accept such a division if the owners relented on other issues, including the mid-level exception and the luxury tax.

Source: HoopsWorld.com

I cannot find another source for this despite the quote of ESPN.

Another 'final' offer.

Why am I not optimistic?

Given the league has not gone to the 47%/flex cap/rollback offer they said they would, I'm not sure if the players take a take-it-or-leave-it threat seriously.