The Lockout & the Raptors: Players approve CBA, Owners too! (1944)

[Apollo]

Well if the league needs 30 days to start a season, and Christmas games are supposed to bring in a lot of income, then delaying the process by skipping a barganing session on November 24th is a pretty big deal.

I don't think you appreciate how big a holiday Thanksgiving is in the States. One day means little in my opinion. They've been killing time for months now. To me it doesn't make much sense to burn meaningless days and then when a major holiday comes up that's important to all their families suddenly they must meet because it's now or never. Today, tomorrow, we know the outcome. Nothing gets accomplished and a truck load of meaningless contradicting rumors gets dumped on the media. We're not at the breaking point yet.

[mcHAPPY]

I am probably missing something here but I fail to see where the problem is re a solution to the shortfall issue. If in any given year the players owe an amount exceeding their 50% (including the escrow)...well just take that exceeded amount off the top of the BRI the following year before divvying it up. They could even come up with an interest charge arrangement

I agree with your solution and it sounds straight forward. Obviously the players do not agree with such an arrangement.

[slaw]

If Fisher shows up to negotiations, the owners will have a very, very strong case in the antitrust suits. Hopefully they are negotiating to end the lockout versus crush the players.

If the owners are participating in sham negotiations to lay the groundwork for a legal case then shame on them and their lawyers. Having been a commercial biglaw lawyer in a previous life I never worked with anyone who would endorse or participate in something like that. And I can't imagine these high-profile guys with big reputations on the line would engage in sharp practice like this - it would color every negotiation you ever were involved in again.

As for Kessler being out of the room, you don't need bomb throwers like this guy cause, in the end, they always end up hurting you. They have a role in certain scenarios but not in these type of negotiations. I would much rather have deal-makers than guys who simply raise issues and barriers. Always works out better.

[Bendit]

the escrow system?

First it was all BRI.

Then all system.

Now it appears we are back to money and ensuring the players do not get more than 50%.




http://sheridanhoops.com/2011/11/24/...out/#more-2329

I am probably missing something here but I fail to see where the problem is re a solution to the shortfall issue. If in any given year the players owe an amount exceeding their 50% (including the escrow)...well just take that exceeded amount off the top of the BRI the following year before divvying it up. They could even come up with an interest charge arrangement

[planetmars]

Delaying the process by one day has very little financial impact so I fail to see why you call this a critical issue, costing billions of dollars.

Well if the league needs 30 days to start a season, and Christmas games are supposed to bring in a lot of income, then delaying the process by skipping a barganing session on November 24th is a pretty big deal.

As for the billions of dollars - well the NBA brings in 4+ billion dollars annually. The further they delay in negotiating the better the chance that a season will be missed. My point is that these guys should be talking all the time. They shouldn't be skipping a day because they want to eat turkey and apple pie.

[Hugmenot]

Heck in my work place someone has to be available 365 days a year. For such a critical issue, costing billions of dollars, I'm pretty sure the two sides can forgo this one holiday and continue to have discussions and meetings.

Delaying the process by one day has very little financial impact so I fail to see why you call this a critical issue, costing billions of dollars.

[mcHAPPY]

The biggest issue to resolving the lockout is......

the escrow system?

First it was all BRI.

Then all system.

Now it appears we are back to money and ensuring the players do not get more than 50%.

A source tells SheridanHoops.com that the most significant impediment to a deal remains the owners insistence on an escrow withholding system that would ensure that the revenue split for each season ends up being 50-50. Players have offered to have 10 percent of salaries withheld, but a problem has continually arisen when the sides have discussed what mechanism would make up for the shortfall if the 10 percent withholding did not get the players’ share down to 50 percent. Would the shortfall carry over into the next season? Or would the players have to make up the difference in some other way to balance the books at the end of each season to provide for a fresh start at the onset of the next season?

Of all the system issues that remain in dispute, that is the most contentious one that could loom as a deal-killer.

http://sheridanhoops.com/2011/11/24/...out/#more-2329

[mcHAPPY]

NEW YORK — He is a close-talker and a loud-talker whose voice can be the verbal equivalent of fingernails on a chalkboard. David Stern has called his behavior “routinely despicable,” and on more than one occasion he has commandeered the post-meeting news briefings to incessantly spew vitriol at the NBA owners with whom he has been butting heads.

He is Jeffrey Kessler, the lead outside counsel for what used to be known as the National Basketball Players Association, and he is reportedly out of the picture now that talks between the players and owners have resumed with an eye toward reaching a settlement that would allow for the NBA season to begin on Christmas Day, Dec. 25.

http://sheridanhoops.com/2011/11/24/...e-kessler-out/

Several ownership sources were enthusiastic over the removal of polarizing Players Association counsel, Jeffrey Kessler.

As one ownership source said recently, “Remember, the NFL got its deal done when [Kessler] finally was out of the room.”

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_yl..._resume_112311

From all I've read, before this, it seems having Kessler playing a significantly smaller role, if none at all, is in the best interests of everyone involved.

[mcHAPPY]

The two sides will meet again Friday, and there’s a push within the league office and from Players Association executive director Billy Hunter to have Fisher in the room, league sources said. Nevertheless, Fisher hasn’t committed to attending the meeting, perhaps because of legal concerns about how a judge in the federal suit could view his participation. There’s still a sense the owners could be setting up a trap for the Players Association, perhaps leading them on in talks now only to pull the plug and make a case to the judge that Hunter’s and Fisher’s involvement in the meetings shows they’re still acting as a union – and that the disclaimer of interest and subsequent lawsuits were nothing more than negotiating tactics.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_yl..._resume_112311

If Fisher shows up to negotiations, the owners will have a very, very strong case in the antitrust suits. Hopefully they are negotiating to end the lockout versus crush the players.

[Bendit]

I think he is talking about the system issues. The BRI has been settled. Allowing teams to use full MLE to go in to tax and allowing teams to take on more salary via trades or signing minimum level contracts to go in to the tax. The way the owners proposal was worded it created a short term hard cap of $70.3M during the subsequent season for any team who uses the full MLE. I could be wrong but I believe if the owners removed this it would solve a lot of issues the players have. The mini-MLE, in my opinion, should be kept for teams who are already in the luxury tax.

Definitely keep the mini mle....thats one of the corner stones of the "spread the talent around" need.

[mcHAPPY]

Lol...now tell us what you really think Charles. He obviously got the baseline position from MJ..good buds, golf partners and craps table aficionados. He is all over the place. While he realizes that it is the Miami trio that created the problem (and the owners are trying to rectify that) and says the 50/50 deal is fair yet he believes the owners are asking for too much. Huh? Maybe he has been getting some blowback from players.

I think he is talking about the system issues. The BRI has been settled. Allowing teams to use full MLE to go in to tax and allowing teams to take on more salary via trades or signing minimum level contracts to go in to the tax. The way the owners proposal was worded it created a short term hard cap of $70.3M during the subsequent season for any team who uses the full MLE. I could be wrong but I believe if the owners removed this it would solve a lot of issues the players have. The mini-MLE, in my opinion, should be kept for teams who are already in the luxury tax.

[Bendit]

I actually get a bit ticked off when there are breaks for some kind of holiday event. Heck in my work place someone has to be available 365 days a year. For such a critical issue, costing billions of dollars, I'm pretty sure the two sides can forgo this one holiday and continue to have discussions and meetings.

I understand that we need to celebrate certain holidays and traditions - but ultimately I think for certain specific situations (like the lockout for example), those traditions and holidays should be put on snooze. This is not a time to celebrate if you were working for the NBA.

Weelll, they are Americans! Theyll go to war but fuck if they'll give up their turkey dinner...even on the battlefield...and it'll be catered (no rations now)...with all the trimmings while the Taliban are raining down howitzers. Maybe I exaggerate/generalize some. But I distinctly remember George Bush visiting Iraq one Thanksgiving day and he was carrying this turkey tray in a mess tent with this goofy look on his face. Later I read where the turkey which looked real enough was actually a fake and it was a good one... really bronzed well for the photo op.

Priorities man...priorities. What we peasants need to learn is how to compartmentalize our problems. These boyos clearly are quite comfortable with setting aside armageddon while pouring their gravy.

[Bendit]

Lol...now tell us what you really think Charles. He obviously got the baseline position from MJ..good buds, golf partners and craps table aficionados. He is all over the place. While he realizes that it is the Miami trio that created the problem (and the owners are trying to rectify that) and says the 50/50 deal is fair yet he believes the owners are asking for too much. Huh? Maybe he has been getting some blowback from players.

[Tim W.]

I actually get a bit ticked off when there are breaks for some kind of holiday event. Heck in my work place someone has to be available 365 days a year. For such a critical issue, costing billions of dollars, I'm pretty sure the two sides can forgo this one holiday and continue to have discussions and meetings.

I understand that we need to celebrate certain holidays and traditions - but ultimately I think for certain specific situations (like the lockout for example), those traditions and holidays should be put on snooze. This is not a time to celebrate if you were working for the NBA.

What exactly are they taking a holiday FROM? If the NBA was actually running they wouldn't get one.

[mcHAPPY]

Barkley Mad At NBA Owners

NBA or no NBA, you can always count on Charles Barkley to have an opinion about just about everything. Barkley was on ESPN Chicago recently, and said he is really mad at the NBA owners for their part in the ongoing labor dispute.

“Well, I’m kind of mad at the owners right now, to be honest with you, because I think the owners are just trying to crush the guys. The players have made so many concessions, and it’s like, is that not enough? I try to explain to a normal person, okay, so the players went from 57 [percent] to 50, and that might not sound like a lot to a normal person, but you’ve got to understand — each one of those points is worth $300 million dollars; each one of those points is worth $300 million dollars. So it’s not like the players aren’t trying to make…it’s not like they’re not sacrificing anything….and I think the owners want even more, and I think they’re just trying to beat them to death right now.”

Barkley also cautioned those who would be angry with Michael Jordan, who has gone from the richest player in the NBA to the stingiest owner in the league.

“Well first of all, don’t believe everything you hear. But Michael is an owner now. He can’t sacrifice his franchise. Listen, he’s the reason that all us players are making the money that we are today. But with that being said, he’s an owner now; he’s got to do what’s best for his franchise. I think it’s silly for players to think MJ should sacrifice the whole NBA for the rights of the players. He’s not a player anymore. When he played, he spoke for the players, he made sure every player got paid an enormous amount of money, but right now he’s an owner. That being said, I’ve been very disappointed with some of the owners as far as — look, this is a partnership, and it’s not like a regular business. I don’t think the players should never go lower than 50-50. I think they should take 50-50, but the owners I think want even more. And that’s what disappoints me, because the players are clearly trying to make a deal. But I think the union wants to break the union for good and get a ten-year deal where they make all the profits.”

Admittedly, Barkley was among the first to say that there probably would not be a 2011-12 NBA season, and his original prediction is turning out to be a good one.

“Oh, I was the first one. If you go back and look, I remember I was on a TV show last year when the season was going on; they asked me about next year, and I said ‘dude, I don’t think there’s going to be a season at all next year.’ And everybody looked at me like ‘that dude’s crazy.’ What I always knew was the owners were going to get the deal they wanted or they were not going to play. That’s what I knew more than anything. They were going to get the deal they wanted or they weren’t going to play. First of all, they’ve proven me right. If the players don’t give them everything they want, even if it goes excessive, they’re not going to play because they look at it like this — they will lose less money not playing.”

At the end of the day, the changes the NBA owners are seeking in a new collective bargaining agreement may just be too extreme for them to find common ground with the players. Barkley believes those issues will, indeed, cost us an entire season.

“I don’t think there’s going to be [a season], but that’s just my personal opinion, I don’t have any inside. But I knew it was going to be ugly, I think actually it’s become really personal. I think those owners got so upset at LeBron and Chris Bosh and guys like that that they’d rather burn down the house instead of doing any remodeling. We need great players on small market teams. And they drew a line in the sand and said ‘okay, okay, the inmates are running afoul and we’re going to put and end to this right now.’ That’s what I truly believe. Like I said, even if that means burning down the house, they were going to. It was like ‘okay, I’m sick of these guys.’ And remember, it’s already started for next year with where’s Chris Paul going and where’s Dwight Howard going? So these owners are steaming. Same with Carmelo. So the owners are like ‘these guys all want to play in major markets and screw the small towns, we’re going to put an end to this.’ And this is the point we’re at right now.”

Listen to Charles Barkley on ESPN Chicago by linking here!

There is not much here I disagree with.... and by not much I mean nothing.