The Lockout & the Raptors: Players approve CBA, Owners too! (1944)

[MyMomLovesMe]

Dude,

I wasn't born premature. You will never catch me in an iphone or wii lineup. In fact even hardware costs are like this. If you want to have a CPU that performs 50% better you will have to spend 3-4 times as much. So I never buy the top of the line as it depreciates very quickly. I go for cost effectiveness. Android can be had for cheap and can do just as much.


WRONG. Your currency has devalued. You just don't see it because you do not want to adjust the index. Oil and Gold have stayed relatively the same. It is only because there is not that much trust in the dollar that it takes so many of them to buy those items. This is why there 3rd world is having problems. The dollar is worlds reserve currency, its devaluation means horror for them.

The whole world knows the dollar is devalued, in fact that is what QE does, its just a fancy way of printing more money. Dollars. Hence the more of them in circulation, the smaller a demand and hence the fall of your buying power.




As for cars being bought with loans, irrelevant. They always have been. When a person can afford a Hyundai, they usually get a Honda. When they can afford a Honda, the get a beemer, and so on. (Research Edward Bernays, or watch this documentary)


The buying power of your dollar is not what it used to be. This is because the FED can fuck you by taking down the value of your house and you assets because you gauge your success by that denomination. So in reality, the fed levies a hidden tax, that makes your US/Canadian property now more affordable to Chinese middle class investor. This is why Putin wants to create a reserve currency that can not be manipulated.

S&P500 companies have more cash on the books than ever before - why is that? This is what the mainstream media always proclaims as a reason to own or buy more stocks - what they leave out is they also have the highest debt levels of all time as well. Trouble coming perhaps?

LOL, S&P500 companies have lots of everything on the books, including assets. IBM used its cash position to buy back its own shares. Cash is okay if you are going to do something with it. IT will be ON HAND during booming times like the S&P500 are feeling. Cash on hand also has not been accounted for yet, Don't worry it will be used productively. This is nothing in ordinary considering that Corporations are making off like bandits.

Dude if you are sitting on amounts of $$ for longer than your operational year you are an idiot. Corporation or mod. How can you say that this is a bad time to make capital expenses? Are you crazy Matt52? This is why its hard to argue with you, a cup that is already filled with water does not take on new water.

Why is Warren Buffet investing 7 Billion in capital expense into Berkshire Hathaway? Dude what the hell is wrong with your comprehension, did you not watch the video I posted?


EDIT: Simple reasoning example:

Why is food more expensive? Is it harder to grow corn, and wheat? Or is the dollar worth less? Is production down? Or is there lots of unwanted dollars? (Remember the Dollar is backed by the US tax payer, so the more insurmountable the debt looks, the less it will be in demand. We pin CAD to the US, at least that has been our governments habit, by buying up treasuries whenever it rose against our trading partners. China does this as well, but because we are so small, the US does not really care that we manipulate our currency, but they do care that China manipulates theirs by buying US treasuries. )

[Apollo]

Damn... and I thought I had a negative forecast. :P

The government doesn't control it's only currency and pays a "tax" to private bankers to make more. Then this government is the most bloated corrupt entity that you could ever imagine. They're going to keep printing money until one day it takes a wheel barrel full to buy a loaf of bread. How do I know this? Because the system is broken and corrupt. Because the people in charge don't care about the people. Because the people are so distracted and a lot of them don't know and aren't interested in how it's happening. Those who do care can't find out the facts from the mainstream media. Most importantly, because all that has led to the point of no return. They can't fix it, it's too far gone and the only thing they can do is prolong the inevitable by raising the debt ceiling again and again. That can only go on for so long and then one day, Ukraine '93.

[MyMomLovesMe]

...by the way it is common knowledge that the FED's policy is to devalue the dollar.

You can find economist after economist saying this on you-tube. Holding the dollar does nothing for you, unless you will use it... it is falling. This is a very simple concept. (Hence why gold and silver are enjoying the boom due to uncertainty of a US Dollar that is backed by taxpayer debt. )

[ceez]

Word is the players and owners don't plan to meet til the end of august now? So basically the best case scenario is basketball HOPEFULLY comes back around February. Ugh.

[mcHAPPY]

Dude,

I wasn't born premature. You will never catch me in an iphone or wii lineup. In fact even hardware costs are like this. If you want to have a CPU that performs 50% better you will have to spend 3-4 times as much. So I never buy the top of the line as it depreciates very quickly. I go for cost effectiveness. Android can be had for cheap and can do just as much.


WRONG. Your currency has devalued. You just don't see it because you do not want to adjust the index. Oil and Gold have stayed relatively the same. It is only because there is not that much trust in the dollar that it takes so many of them to buy those items. This is why there 3rd world is having problems. The dollar is worlds reserve currency, its devaluation means horror for them.

The whole world knows the dollar is devalued, in fact that is what QE does, its just a fancy way of printing more money. Dollars. Hence the more of them in circulation, the smaller a demand and hence the fall of your buying power.




As for cars being bought with loans, irrelevant. They always have been. When a person can afford a Hyundai, they usually get a Honda. When they can afford a Honda, the get a beemer, and so on. (Research Edward Bernays, or watch this documentary)


The buying power of your dollar is not what it used to be. This is because the FED can fuck you by taking down the value of your house and you assets because you gauge your success by that denomination. So in reality, the fed levies a hidden tax, that makes your US/Canadian property now more affordable to Chinese middle class investor. This is why Putin wants to create a reserve currency that can not be manipulated.



LOL, S&P500 companies have lots of everything on the books, including assets. IBM used its cash position to buy back its own shares. Cash is okay if you are going to do something with it. IT will be ON HAND during booming times like the S&P500 are feeling. Cash on hand also has not been accounted for yet, Don't worry it will be used productively. This is nothing in ordinary considering that Corporations are making off like bandits.

Dude if you are sitting on amounts of $$ for longer than your operational year you are an idiot. Corporation or mod. How can you say that this is a bad time to make capital expenses? Are you crazy Matt52? This is why its hard to argue with you, a cup that is already filled with water does not take on new water.

Why is Warren Buffet investing 7 Billion in capital expense into Berkshire Hathaway? Dude what the hell is wrong with your comprehension, did you not watch the video I posted?

It seems apparent to me, in other words in my opinion, your understanding of financial matters is based on the last 25-30 years of a western world economy that has been fuelled by debt. There has actually been little real growth in the US in over 20 years. Your ideas are certainly relevant in a time of growth or prosperity. Unfortunately that time is not now.

Asset prices are not increasing, they are decreasing. Margins are collapsing for corporations, not increasing. Without tuition, all forms of consumer credit in the United States would be decreasing something which has never happened before the last couple of years. P/E ratios of many companies scream buy unfortunately that is based on forward earnings, not realized earnings as PE's use to be calculated on (again another change in practice to make things look better than they are).

As Apollo referred to, these owners are well connected. They know what is coming. Times have changed and as usual the average citizen and the workers (like the players) will be the last to know - at which time it will be too late. Revenues in the US might have been at an all-time high last year but that is hardly sustainable given the economic landscape. The SP500 is booming? Yes, in stock price. But the economy and even manipulated statistics are telling another story (China's PMI went under 50 yesterday - that is contraction; the misery index is at a 25 year high at 12 but much below the readings of low 20's in early 80's).

Your own posts referred to the coming hard times yet you still advocate practices that will run or have already run businesses or countries in to the ground. My cup might be full but unfortunately the water you are pouring is polluted and I'm glad to take none on.

[mcHAPPY]

The government doesn't control it's only currency and pays a "tax" to private bankers to make more. Then this government is the most bloated corrupt entity that you could ever imagine. They're going to keep printing money until one day it takes a wheel barrel full to buy a loaf of bread. How do I know this? Because the system is broken and corrupt. Because the people in charge don't care about the people. Because the people are so distracted and a lot of them don't know and aren't interested in how it's happening. Those who do care can't find out the facts from the mainstream media. Most importantly, because all that has led to the point of no return. They can't fix it, it's too far gone and the only thing they can do is prolong the inevitable by raising the debt ceiling again and again. That can only go on for so long and then one day, Ukraine '93.

The other extreme is deflation whereby cash becomes much more valuable and people tend to horde it waiting for lower prices or a better deal. Personally I think we will see deflation first and sometime by 2020 we'll have hyperinflation. We got a taste of deflation from July 2008 in to mid-2009.

Gold being sold out of ATM's and at Harrod's tells me the people are fully behind inflation and when everyone expects one thing you can be certain something else will happen (first tech bubble, then housing bubble, and now we have a commodity bubble).

[MyMomLovesMe]

The other extreme is deflation whereby cash becomes much more valuable and people tend to horde it waiting for lower prices or a better deal. Personally I think we will see deflation first and sometime by 2020 we'll have hyperinflation. We got a taste of deflation from July 2008 in to mid-2009.

Gold being sold out of ATM's and at Harrod's tells me the people are fully behind inflation and when everyone expects one thing you can be certain something else will happen (first tech bubble, then housing bubble, and now we have a commodity bubble).

The reason commodities are booming is because currencies are backed by unsustainable debt burdens. This is true of Europe and this is true of NA. It's not simply because people like shinny things, there are sound mathematics behind how bad most nations debt is. The Greek situation is not imagined. The eurozone is in trouble. Gold will most likely go higher.


You really need to watch this, because it is a FACT in this debate, and you keep stubbornly ignoring it.

[relevant reference for this discussion starts at 2:30]
http://mrctv.org/videos/warren-buffe...e-jet-rhetoric


7 Billion is not chump change.

EDIT: Please don't keep your money in Cash, maybe silver coins or something that can be converted easily, but not dollars. Especially if you have family. It's always good to have gold or silver, because if it goes down it means the rest of your portfolio is killing it, if the rest of your portfolio sucks, than gold and silver is your saviour. So it's always been an insurance type of thing. It's price often expressing the confidence in the economy. China and India are buying it up as well. (steadily... if they buy it to fast they will push the price)

A silver coin, got you the same amount of gas 10 years ago as it does today.

[mcHAPPY]

The reason commodities are booming is because currencies are backed by unsustainable debt burdens. This is true of Europe and this is true of NA. It's not simply because people like shinny things, there are sound mathematics behind how bad most nations debt is. The Greek situation is not imagined. The eurozone is in trouble. Gold will most likely go higher.


You really need to watch this, because it is a FACT in this debate, and you keep stubbornly ignoring it.

[relevant reference for this discussion starts at 2:30]
http://mrctv.org/videos/warren-buffe...e-jet-rhetoric


7 Billion is not chump change.

Yes it will in time. But remember what they said about tech in 1999 and houses in 2006.

Your opinions are easily read in many mainstream media sources such as MarketWatch or Bloomberg. Unfortunately I don't base my opinions on the mainstream

Even Sir Warren himself, since that is the man you seem to admire, has said the time to buy is when there is blood in the streets. This is not the time to buy or invest capital.

Exxon is a model company. They did not let the run up of oil to $150 cloud their judgement nor the subsequent run up over $100. All their planning is done on a $40 dollar barrell of oil and when oil hit $33 in 2009 they made significant investment at that time.

There is nothing stubborn about mathematics. Increasing debt loads in the face of negative cash flow leads to failure at some point - the only question is when.

[MyMomLovesMe]

There is nothing stubborn about mathematics. Increasing debt loads in the face of negative cash flow leads to failure at some point - the only question is when.

Cash flows are not negative, in fact you pointed out the Cash on hand figures yourself.

This is not the time to buy or invest capital.

Did you watch the video? What did the old guy say? How can you be so stubborn, in the face of facts?

(I admire MLK, Tank Man, Scientists, Philosophers and Religious figures - I don't admire people by their monetary wealth.)


EDIT: This is why its frustrating for me, I need to repeat the point to you 3-5 times, and than 2 pages in you forget it anyway. Can I ask you for your level of education, I will give you mine. I just want to know why you think you are such a know it all.

[relevant reference for this discussion starts at 2:30]
http://mrctv.org/videos/warren-buffe...e-jet-rhetoric

[mcHAPPY]

Cash flows are not negative, in fact you pointed out the Cash on hand figures yourself.




Did you watch the video? What did the old guy say? How can you be so stubborn, in the face of facts?

(I admire MLK, Tank Man, Scientists, Philosophers and Religious figures - I don't admire people by their monetary wealth.)

NBA franchises.

[MyMomLovesMe]

NBA franchises.

Really, you think NBA franchises never had any cash on hand? No monies were coming in that they can then use for expenses (of their own making)?

Most season ticket holders for instance need to pay up front.


EDIT: I have shown how one can hide profits with capital expenses. I have even stated reasons why someone would show a loss cyclically and how a smart business can take advantage of it. I don't want to keep repeating myself to someone that does not even read my points.

Unless we see the books, the losses are unsubstantiated. Due to my points above.

[Apollo]

The other extreme is deflation whereby cash becomes much more valuable and people tend to horde it waiting for lower prices or a better deal. Personally I think we will see deflation first and sometime by 2020 we'll have hyperinflation. We got a taste of deflation from July 2008 in to mid-2009.

Gold being sold out of ATM's and at Harrod's tells me the people are fully behind inflation and when everyone expects one thing you can be certain something else will happen (first tech bubble, then housing bubble, and now we have a commodity bubble).

I don't believe there is a commodity bubble right now. The Euro could crash at anytime. The USD could crash soon. People are starting to invest in gold and silver to protect purchasing power. This is not a bubble, it's the beginning of a trend. If the USD and/or Euro crashes then you will see silver, grain, all commodities go through the roof, but especially gold. Here, as prices start to sky rocker, this is where you will find people buying seats on a commodity bubble. Those buying in now are smart. A new currency backed by gold will see a gold price far higher than right now. A dollar backed by gold will probably be the new world reserve currency. This is why so many large countries like Russia and China are buying up all they can. They're hedging. They're betting on the Euro and USD crashes happening.

I don't see deflation happening. Prices of things that matter most are going through the roof. You can pass on a new PC in a depression but you need that milk for your kids. You need the energy to heat your house in the dead of winter. Unemployment only is going to get worse in the U.S., and so there are going to be less people who have any money. Those who don't have money will continue to not have it. Those who do have it won't be able to save it if prices keep going up. Prices will also keep going up because the world is a lot smaller. Scarcity is a real threat now to the U.S. If they don't buy it, somebody else, somewhere else will.

And I haven't even touched on the College scam down there. All those poor kids who were duped by the system to go into debt $200K for a degree that are worthless to them because their leaders have failed them on every level. Horrible.

Debt paid by debt at every level. The days of fiat currencies are coming to an end...For a while. It may take a year or ten years but the current system does not work. Regular people are slowly waking up to that.

[mcHAPPY]

Really, you think NBA franchises never had any cash on hand? No monies were coming in that they can then use for expenses (of their own making)?

Most season ticket holders for instance need to pay up front.


EDIT: I have shown how one can hide profits with capital expenses. I have even stated reasons why someone would show a loss cyclically and how a smart business can take advantage of it. I don't want to keep repeating myself to someone that does not even read my points.

Unless we see the books, the losses are unsubstantiated. Due to my points above.

Cash flow is essential to a businesses survival. Not having cash on hand means debt is needed to cover costs. Debt is a useful tool in expansion. Debt is a dangerous tool in operations.

I've accepted what you've shown - I don't agree with it though in the current economic landscape. In a booming economy with appreciating assets sure the lessons you've provided out of "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" are valid but they are not in a contracting economy. Debt is the problem in the world today - there is too much after a 30 year orgy. Unlike yourself, I'm not forcing you to accept my views rather I'm answering your claims.

The bottom line is this:

You don't believe the owners - fine. I do to a degree. No doubt their expenses outside of player salaries can be cut. However their greatest expense also needs a cut. You don't agree, fine. I do.

All my arguments have been based on the notion teams have more money going out than coming in - i.e. operating expenses greater than revenues, i.e.2. I believe the owners.

The capital expense argument is not viable in the scenario owners have depicted because the majority do not make profit i.e. revenues greater than expenses. You can't hide profits when your operating expenses are larger than your revenues because they are not there. Once again, you don't believe the owners - fine. I do.

You also cannot rely on borrowing against asset appreciation of a franchise to cover operating losses. This is essentially what many home owners did in the US.

Once again, you don't believe the owners. I do.

The original demands of the owners (33% rollback, hard cap $45M) were ridiculous. Their last offer of a $62M flex cap maxing out just under $70M with max contracts of $13-14M was better than anything they eventually settle for - very much like the NHLPA's situation during their lockout.

The majority of franchises are going to make money by not operating - players do not stand a chance.

You agree with the players - fine. I agree with the owners - fine.

What you fail to consider is this:

You said: Unless we see the books, the losses are unsubstantiated. Due to my points above.

I say: Unless we see the books, the profits are unsubstantiated. Due to my points above.

When the owners are willing to shut it all down and the fact players association best argument is the losses aren't as bad as what they are claiming, I'm more inclined to believe more of what the owners are spinning.

When this discussion originally started your argument originally was operating costs do not matter, asset appreciation does. I 100% disagree. Oh well. *shrug*

[mcHAPPY]

I don't believe there is a commodity bubble right now. The Euro could crash at anytime. The USD could crash soon. People are starting to invest in gold and silver to protect purchasing power. This is not a bubble, it's the beginning of a trend. If the USD and/or Euro crashes then you will see silver, grain, all commodities go through the roof, but especially gold. Here, as prices start to sky rocker, this is where you will find people buying seats on a commodity bubble. Those buying in now are smart. A new currency backed by gold will see a gold price far higher than right now. A dollar backed by gold will probably be the new world reserve currency. This is why so many large countries like Russia and China are buying up all they can. They're hedging. They're betting on the Euro and USD crashes happening.

I don't see deflation happening. Prices of things that matter most are going through the roof. You can pass on a new PC in a depression but you need that milk for your kids. You need the energy to heat your house in the dead of winter. Unemployment only is going to get worse in the U.S., and so there are going to be less people who have any money. Those who don't have money will continue to not have it. Those who do have it won't be able to save it if prices keep going up. Prices will also keep going up because the world is a lot smaller. Scarcity is a real threat now to the U.S. If they don't buy it, somebody else, somewhere else will.

And I haven't even touched on the College scam down there. All those poor kids who were duped by the system to go into debt $200K for a degree that are worthless to them because their leaders have failed them on every level. Horrible.

Debt paid by debt at every level. The days of fiat currencies are coming to an end...For a while. It may take a year or ten years but the current system does not work. Regular people are slowly waking up to that.

Gold is up around 550% since 2001 while being able to be purchased in ATM's and in department stores.

I appreciate and respect your views but I disagree in the next 8-10 years. I've read and been a part of many discussions on the matter on many financial blogs and really don't want to get in to it here but I'll very briefly list my reasons below then leave it. FWIW I do agree with the views in time.

The reason is before the dollar blows up all the debt has to be accounted for. There are $2 trillion physical US dollars and over $50 trillion in debt - remember it is the reserve currency and many debts even outside the US are owed in it. Dollars will become valuable as the debt is unwound - think 1930's bank runs in US. We are coming to a point where debt is going to be viewed very negatively - as it has already begun in many places, obviously not Canada... yet.

When the DXY (US dollar index) went from 72 to 89 from July 2008-Winter 2009 oil went from $150 to $33. In the summer of 2008 it was all about the demise of the USD. At some point it will fail, all fiats do. However it is really ironic that the two countries with the most debt by far (Japan and the US) and the most flawed currencies are the two currencies everyone flocks to in times of turmoil.

Deflation has been raging in Japan since the early 1990's. The Nikkei topped at just under 39,000 in December '89. Today it flirts with 10,000. Japan was has continued to throw more and more debt at their issues instead of taking a loss. Sound familiar?

If only we were all Icelandic and had the testicular fortitude to tell the banks to eat their losses.

[ezz_bee]

so um, 'bout that nba lockout eh?