The Lockout & the Raptors: Players approve CBA, Owners too! (1944)

[slaw]

Oh how this is a bad move for the owners. In the end, they're gonna cry poor. If they want to really deter spending, it should start at a 10:1 ratio. Then you'd really think twice before going over the cap. Then again, to the richer teams, it wouldn't phase them at all..and it creates a gap - the richer teams constantly win because they can afford to pay the salaries, much like in Major League Baseball.

Like the Angels, Mets, White Sox, Red Sox, Cubs, Giants, Twins, and Dodgers. I look forward to watching all of them in the playoffs this year. If only teams like the Rays, Brewers and Diamondbacks could make the playoffs once in awhile.

[mcHAPPY]

http://www.hoopsworld.com/nba-pm-is-...tern-bluffing/

“I think you can be drawn a false sense of security that ‘they came before, so they’ll always come.’ But right now, I don’t hear anyone talking about the NBA at all, except for the diehards,” Van Gundy said.

Interest is down.

Look at our own Raptors forum as exhibit A.

Hopefully players AND owners get their sh!t together sooner than later.

[Bendit]

http://www.hoopsworld.com/nba-pm-is-...tern-bluffing/



Interest is down.

Look at our own Raptors forum as exhibit A.

Hopefully players AND owners get their sh!t together sooner than later.

One very large problem is that the NFL is in full swing with a honorable mention that the NHL is about to begin (not that it matters in the US). Unfortunately the moderate to casual viewer has alternatives and are not fussing. This is one of the reasons I believe why there will be minimal push by the owners to settle right now. I think they shall aim to get serious about a Christmas/New Year's start...unless of course the players give in now.

[NoPropsneeded]

Do you think they can get a deal done? Stern said if both sides don't agree by the end of this weekend he'll shut down the entire season... thats pretty harsh

[MangoKid]

Like the Angels, Mets, White Sox, Red Sox, Cubs, Giants, Twins, and Dodgers. I look forward to watching all of them in the playoffs this year. If only teams like the Rays, Brewers and Diamondbacks could make the playoffs once in awhile.

The Rays are a horrible model because they were awful for so long which allowed them to draft near the top of the order pretty much year in and out. If they don't get a new stadium, they'll be on their way out not before long. They can't afford to pay free agents. It's almost as though they're the modern day Montreal Expos - emerging into a feeder team for talent before they leave. It's funny how you also overlooked teams like the Phillies, Tigers, Yankees, Cards and Rangers. All of those teams are upper half of salaries in MLB (top-13, actually - and they all have payrolls of 90 million plus) - 5 of the 8 teams that actually qualified for the playoffs.

[mcHAPPY]

That optimism, sources say, stems from the fact that the construction of a deal made in the next 72 to 96 hours would not include a hard salary cap and would preserve guaranteed contracts for the players, which rank as two of the union's biggest priorities.

Yet sources say the owners, in exchange for those two concessions, continue to make stringent demands in a number of other areas in their quest to dramatically slice the amount of annual revenue earned by players, shorten contract lengths and institute a far more restrictive system to divide revenues.

Over the course of the week, various sources with knowledge of the talks have shared some of the concepts being discussed with ESPN.com. Possibilities presented by the league as alternatives to a hard cap include:

• The institution of a sliding "Supertax" that would charge teams $2 in luxury tax for every dollar over $70 million in payroll, $3 for every dollar over $75 million in payroll and $4 for every dollar for teams with payrolls above $80 million

• A provision to allow each team to release one player via the so-called "amnesty" clause and gain both salary-cap and luxury-tax relief when that player's cap number is removed from the books

• Shortening guaranteed contracts to a maximum of three or four seasons

• Limiting Larry Bird rights -- which enable teams to exceed the salary cap to re-sign their own free agents -- to one player per team per season

• Reducing the annual mid-level exception, which was valued at $5.8 million last season, to roughly $3 million annually and limiting mid-level contracts to a maximum of two or three seasons in length as opposed to the current maximum of five seasons

• A new "Carmelo Rule" that would prevent teams -- as the New York Knicks did in February with Anthony -- from using a Bird exception to sign or extend a player acquired by trade unless they are acquired before July 1 of the final season of the player's contract

• The abolition of sign-and-trades and the bi-annual exception worth $2 million

• Significant reductions in maximum salaries and annual raises and a 5 percent rollbacks on current contracts

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/70...ayers-set-meet

I don't like the "supertax" or reducing max salaries. The max guys earn their money for themselves, the teams, and the owners.

Shortening contracts, limiting Birds Rights, reducing mid-level amount and length, abolition of sign and trades, and the Carmelo Rule all sound great, in my opinion, for the league as a whole.

[slaw]

The Rays are a horrible model because they were awful for so long which allowed them to draft near the top of the order pretty much year in and out. If they don't get a new stadium, they'll be on their way out not before long. They can't afford to pay free agents. It's almost as though they're the modern day Montreal Expos - emerging into a feeder team for talent before they leave. It's funny how you also overlooked teams like the Phillies, Tigers, Yankees, Cards and Rangers. All of those teams are upper half of salaries in MLB (top-13, actually - and they all have payrolls of 90 million plus) - 5 of the 8 teams that actually qualified for the playoffs.

TB (playoffs 3 of 4 years) isn't a horrible model, it is the model. So much so that MLB is likely to restructure the draft and teh FA system in the new CBA to explicity address how well TB has exploited the inefficiencies the FA system. Tell you what, you bet on the Mets for the next 5 years, I'll take the Rays. $10,000 says TB has a better record.

5 of the top 7 salary teams in baseball aren't in the playoffs. What say you? Minny spent a tonne of money this year - no playoffs. According to you, spending money should guarantee success. One repeat champion in 10 years and people still trot out the tired old meme that there is no parity in baseball. Never let facts get in the way of pre-conceived notions...

[mcHAPPY]

NBA owners and players are in New York fighting about money.

And, maybe, one other thing.

More than 90 days into the lockout, and more than a year into talks about the next collective bargaining agreement, the union and the league still can’t agree whether or not they’re fighting over competitive balance.

The league says they want to change how the NBA operates, to give fans in all 30 NBA markets hope at the outset of every season. The league says now is a rare chance to fix a system in which teams are fairly well locked into categories of contenders and non-contenders, and that a team’s payroll tells you a hell of a lot about how well that team’s going to perform. The league’s insistence on a hard cap, or a luxury tax so stiff it might function like one, has been arguably the talks’ biggest sticking point.

The union says the entire effort is sleight of hand. The union says that the league’s talk about competitive balance, and making the game more exciting for fans, is merely an attempt to put a friendly face on the league’s latest scheme to reach into players’ pockets.

http://www.hoopsworld.com/is-competi...ance-an-issue/

I call BULLSH!T.

The issue here is middle of the road players getting paid far beyond their worth. This is a union with the middle of the road guys (read: Derek Fisher and co.) wanting to keep their the extra $3-4M more than they are worth. No personal slight to Derek Fisher - by all accounts he is a great person and, if I were in a position to lose a few million per year, I'd fight too.

With that said, the guys who should really be pissed are the true stars. Not only do owners limit their earnings with max contracts but their own teammates and brothers in the union are reaching in to their pockets while riding on their coattails.

[GarbageTime]

I call BULLSH!T.

The issue here is middle of the road players getting paid far beyond their worth. This is a union with the middle of the road guys (read: Derek Fisher and co.) wanting to keep their the extra $3-4M more than they are worth. No personal slight to Derek Fisher - by all accounts he is a great person and, if I were in a position to lose a few million per year, I'd fight too.

With that said, the guys who should really be pissed are the true stars. Not only do owners limit their earnings with max contracts but their own teammates and brothers in the union are reaching in to their pockets while riding on their coattails.

I don't think the owners care about competitive balance at all... this is the exact same argument union and management has had since the first labour union in existence.... money.

I'm as convinced that owners are making their stance in the name of of competitive balance as the players are standing their ground based on moral and ideological beliefs.

[Joey]

I'm as convinced that owners are making their stance in the name of of competitive balance as the players are standing their ground based on moral and ideological beliefs.

Well said, sir.

You hear it said time and time again. The NBA is a business FIRST and foremost.

Unfortunately it's a business that resides in VERY murky (read: anti-capitalist) waters, and thus there aren't any rules that really say "this is how it needs to be run", like most other business models.

[mcHAPPY]

I don't think the owners care about competitive balance at all... this is the exact same argument union and management has had since the first labour union in existence.... money.

I'm as convinced that owners are making their stance in the name of of competitive balance as the players are standing their ground based on moral and ideological beliefs.

100% agree.

The only difference between owners and players is all the players are making money.

[mcHAPPY]

NEW YORK — NBA owners told nearly two dozen players Friday they plan to quadruple their revenue sharing by Year 4 of a new collective bargaining agreement, and commissioner David Stern went so far as to say that one of the three remaining items of contention has effectively been settled.

“The three big things are the system, the economics, and revenue sharing, and we’ve taken care of one,” Stern said after the sides met for 4 1/2 hours and agreed to sit down again Saturday to resume negotiations.

Stern has said the owners were already sharing $54 million in revenues, and he previously promised to triple it in a new labor deal.

A quadrupling of that number would provide a pool of at least $216 million by the 2014-15 season.

So if Stern is to be taken at his word, the two remaining big issues — finances and the operating system — will be the focus of the chess match over the next several days if the sides are to reach an agreement that will save the scheduled Nov. 1 start of the regular season.

Stern said he did not, and would not, issue a threat to cancel the entire season if an agreement is not reached in this round of discussions.

“It’s as ludicrous today as it was the day Marc Stein wrote it on ESPN.com,” Stern said, taking the unusual step of singling out a reporter for criticism by name and affiliation.

http://sheridanhoops.com/2011/09/30/...venue_sharing/


1 issue down, 2 to go?

It seems there is progress being made - so that is good.

[mcHAPPY]

Players struggling overseas?

One of the predominant storylines of the NBA lockout has been the overseas option for players. Nearly every player has been asked on the record at some point whether or not he’ll consider signing abroad, and 59 current players have already inked a deal with an international team. That number doesn’t include the long list of undrafted free agents and former NBA players that have signed overseas as well.

Throughout the past week, many of these players have made their overseas debuts. While many NBA fans expected their favorite players to go overseas and dominate, that hasn’t been the case thus far. Even the most well-known players such as Deron Williams and Ty Lawson have been underwhelming in their first action since the NBA season. The adjustment to a new country, team and rulebook hasn’t been easy for NBA players, and many have had to take a backseat to their international teammates.

Williams struggled during his debut with the Turkish club Besiktas, finishing with 15 points and 9 assists on 3-15 shooting. He was described as out of shape and hasn’t looked much better in recent games.

Lawson’s debut with the Lithuanian club Zalgiris Kaunas couldn’t have been any worse. He struggled on both ends of the court, finishing with 3 points and 1 assist in 17 minutes of action. He was benched for the second half, and it was clear that he wasn’t on the same page as his teammates.

Many NBA players signed overseas expecting to be the centerpieces of their new teams, but that hasn’t been the case. They’ve been in for a rude awakening early on. Austin Daye and Timofey Mozgov came off of the bench during their debut with the Russian club BC Khimki. Sonny Weems has played out of position at times with Zalgiris Kaunas, logging minutes at power forward for the first time in his career. Chandler Parsons was held scoreless for 36 minutes before he contributed two free throws during his debut with the French club Cholet.

International teams expected NBA players to struggle as they adapted to the change of scenery. In fact, some teams were only pursuing players that had international experience on their résumé because they didn’t want to go through this difficult adjustment period. Throw in the fact that many of the players are out of shape and joined their new teams late because of prior commitments, and it’s easy to see why many have disappointed in their first action since the NBA season ended.

Several players have already decided to leave their overseas teams. Rasual Butler left the Spanish club Gran Canaria after several weeks due to “personal reasons.” Jermaine Taylor decided not to join the Chinese club Liaoning after some issues with his contract were identified after he had signed. Earl Clark returned to the United States last week, leaving the Chinese team Zhejiang Guanghsa because of complications with his girlfriend’s pregnancy.

Things haven’t gone quite as planned for a number of NBA players and their new international teams. Their play may improve as the season continues, but who knows how long the individuals will remain overseas? If the lockout ends before the players are able to become fully acclimated, teams will have wasted their money on expensive rentals that struggled to contribute.

With superstars such as Kobe Bryant and Kevin Durant continuing to weigh overseas offers, the storyline will continue to generate interest from basketball-deprived fans. Whether or not there’s a happy ending to this story remains to be seen.

http://www.hoopsworld.com/nba-saturd...ling-overseas/

Sonny playing PF? tsk tsk tsk

[GarbageTime]

Sonny playing PF? tsk tsk tsk

maybe the Raps have been using him wrong all along..............

[MangoKid]

TB (playoffs 3 of 4 years) isn't a horrible model, it is the model. So much so that MLB is likely to restructure the draft and teh FA system in the new CBA to explicity address how well TB has exploited the inefficiencies the FA system. Tell you what, you bet on the Mets for the next 5 years, I'll take the Rays. $10,000 says TB has a better record.

5 of the top 7 salary teams in baseball aren't in the playoffs. What say you? Minny spent a tonne of money this year - no playoffs. According to you, spending money should guarantee success. One repeat champion in 10 years and people still trot out the tired old meme that there is no parity in baseball. Never let facts get in the way of pre-conceived notions...

To acquire and retain talent costs money. Plain and simple. You don't get guys to commit to your team and be paid in peanuts and cracker jack. Teams that are big spenders like Boston, Anaheim and Los Angeles normally do make the playoffs (if they don't, they narrowly miss it) - in the cases of Boston and Anaheim, they narrowly missed the post-season but were very competitve. Minnesota's issue is that their top 2 players, Morneau and Mauer missed a significant part of the season. If they hadn't, they would have been a contender for the American League Central crown. In the MLB model, spending to acquire talent puts you in a better position to achieve success. I'll take you up on your bet in regards to the Mets and Rays. Talk to me in 5 years when the Rays can't afford to keep their talent. If they did, Crawford, Garza, Soriano and Pena would still be Rays. You can control guys for a certain period of time before they achieve FA status and want big money. Look at the mid 90's Cleveland Indians. They had all the talent in the world, but not even money to retain guys like Thome, Ramirez, and Albert Belle.