The Lockout & the Raptors: Players approve CBA, Owners too! (1944)

[Apollo]

The NBA is the factory that produces the product.

Flip side of the coin which is more likely at any job or in any industry or profession:

How about the players just accept the deal or try to get as good a contract elsewhere if they don't like it.


Why don't they? Because at the end of the day they are workers who will never have it as good elsewhere.

Exactly. They are who they are because the owners gave them the stage to play on. Without the owners the players would be doing regular jobs like us or they would be making a fraction of what they were making and without the perks, benefits and fat endorsement deals. For the owners to come to the table and offer up a fair 50/50 split and for the players to shoot it down is ridiculous. Two weeks of the season are cancelled now and I'm thinking soon it's safeties off and the players are going to wish they took this offer. The NHLPA burned it's players by playing chicken and now I'm hoping the same happens here. I would love to see the hard cap implemented and now suddenly it's not a dead concept. Sure, if the players come to their senses right now it's not in play but if they prolong this lockout and eat up all their resources suddenly its back in play. At that point their cut of the revenues probably drops well below 50% as well...

[Papa Burgundy]

Not to be a downer, but all the talk about fans "doing something", is kind of for nothing.

If you're a die-hard fan like many of us are, you will happily welcome back the NBA whenever possible ... we're not going to boycott, we care about the sport an reaally, REALLY want to watch our team ASAP.

Sadly, money gets in the way of many decision makers - and we will be punished; which is bizarre, since the league could never function without fan's hard earned money ... but we get shafted - and I don't see any way that is going to change.

[mcHAPPY]

I am pretty disgusted with both sides. Much like I think they should do a 50/50 split of BRI, they each shoulder a 50/50 share of the blame as to where we are now.

The NBA waited too long to seriously negotiate. The 50/50 offer Stern made last Tuesday at the last minute was way too late - even if that offer had been made earlier in the day. It appears over the course of last night, the offers started to get worse. Clearly they have forgotten what happened after MLB strike - it took a steroid binge to bring excitement and many fans back to the game 6 years later.

The players think too highly of their value, in my opinion, and have now dug their heels in at the very moment the owners are willing to truly negotiate. The benefits and perks of playing in the NBA (travel, food, trainers, facilities, etc.) is something no other basketball league in the world can compare to. For all the players talking about playing elsewhere now, ask Deron Williams how the basketball side of thing are working out.

Again, both sides are pathetic at this point and the only people truly suffering are the 1000's of people associated with the league who make their living through economic spin off.

Hardcore fans, like myself, are 'suffering' but I've got college basketball in a couple of weeks and I can always keep tabs on JV.

[mcHAPPY]

Exactly. They are who they are because the owners gave them the stage to play on. Without the owners the players would be doing regular jobs like us or they would be making a fraction of what they were making and without the perks, benefits and fat endorsement deals. For the owners to come to the table and offer up a fair 50/50 split and for the players to shoot it down is ridiculous. Two weeks of the season are cancelled now and I'm thinking soon it's safeties off and the players are going to wish they took this offer. The NHLPA burned it's players by playing chicken and now I'm hoping the same happens here. I would love to see the hard cap implemented and now suddenly it's not a dead concept. Sure, if the players come to their senses right now it's not in play but if they prolong this lockout and eat up all their resources suddenly its back in play. At that point their cut of the revenues probably drops well below 50% as well...

I am pretty disgusted in both sides now.

With that said, the players have really messed up. What they are fighting for this year will be lost in the next 2 weeks and what they are fighting for over 6 years will be lost by December 16.

Unfortunately for everyone, I expect both sides to dig their heels in further and maybe even take a step or two back on any progress.

[Joey]

If you're a die-hard fan like many of us are, you will happily welcome back the NBA whenever possible ... we're not going to boycott, we care about the sport an reaally, REALLY want to watch our team ASAP.

Well said Mr. Burgundy. Well said. Stay classy.

[heinz57]

rich people arguing about how much richer one group is going to make the other. i hope those uneducated overprivileged asstards all go down in an antoine walker financial ball of flame. on the bright side, i'm sure lebron has learned a couple new double syllable words because of this whole process.

such BOLLOCKS.

the labor unions of days past that actually fought for the rights of working class people are shedding a tear.

[heinz57]

Without the owners the players would be doing regular jobs like us

let's be honest. NO THEY WOULDN'T

assuming the majority of us are somewhat educated and have pretty stable jobs that allow us to play on the internet for portions of the day.... maybe 5-10% of them would.

the majority of them would be flipping burgers, salting fries, hand bombing ocean containers in warehouses, washing dishes, standing around in the washrooms of strip clubs wearing bowties hoping to get a buck for giving me a paper towel, running up to cars on highway offramps with a bucket and a squeegee, carrying my luggage down from my hotel room, asking you if you want your fries super sized, pimping dumpster quality hookers out of their beat up 70s caddies, holding up a "need money for weed" on a street corner, selling their rap albums out of their backpack on the street for $2 each, mopping the splooge off the floor of the champagne room... the list goes on..

but doing a job of MY caliber.... which is pretty damn low caliber... is HIGHLY unlikely

without basketball, the majority of them would be absolute failures as human beings.

[Ajar]

What I'm wondering is the implications this has for the next CBA. I haven't been able to find historical BRI splits from past CBAs. If the players accept 50-50, will the owners start at 70-30 in 6 years when it's time to do all of this again? Will we all be talking about how unreasonable the players are being for not accepting a 60-40 split, since the owners had to come up 10% from their initial offer and the players had to come down 10% from what they were getting?

[Apollo]

let's be honest. NO THEY WOULDN'T

assuming the majority of us are somewhat educated and have pretty stable jobs that allow us to play on the internet for portions of the day.... maybe 5-10% of them would.

the majority of them would be flipping burgers, salting fries, hand bombing ocean containers in warehouses, washing dishes, standing around in the washrooms of strip clubs wearing bowties hoping to get a buck for giving me a paper towel, running up to cars on highway offramps with a bucket and a squeegee, carrying my luggage down from my hotel room, asking you if you want your fries super sized, pimping dumpster quality hookers out of their beat up 70s caddies, holding up a "need money for weed" on a street corner, selling their rap albums out of their backpack on the street for $2 each, mopping the splooge off the floor of the champagne room... the list goes on..

but doing a job of MY caliber.... which is pretty damn low caliber... is HIGHLY unlikely

without basketball, the majority of them would be absolute failures as human beings.

I was assuming that they still went to college on full scholarship and actually finished their degrees because the NBA wasn't there. Based on what's happening in the U.S. most of graduating classes don't get jobs right now in their field but that's beside the point I guess...

I do agree that Wade would not be in a position to hostilely shout down anyone in a place of authority over him were he in any other field and still have a job in a month.

[heinz57]

I was assuming that they still went to college on full scholarship and actually finished their degrees because the NBA wasn't there.

i assume without the big money of the NBA on the horizon, the free-rides would be less aplenty.. forcing them to actually have to do school work.. leading to the majority of them dropping out

im pretty sure (but too lazy to look it up) the dropout rate in the states is something ridiculous like 60%... and thats mostly people who go to college to get educated.. i'd have to assume people who don't have brains and are there to play a sport, without the pot of gold on the other side of the rainbow would drop out at a higher rate

and yes, im aware im drinking the haterade... by the keg.

[Apollo]

I'm not a hater but I do hope the players now get burned after turning down a fair offer which led to games getting cancelled.

[NoPropsneeded]

im sure 2 four year olds can solve an argument faster than these Tards.

[NoPropsneeded]

stupid players... i'm pissed off. I swear if they dont get a deal done by next week im going to go insane.

[mcHAPPY]

What I'm wondering is the implications this has for the next CBA. I haven't been able to find historical BRI splits from past CBAs. If the players accept 50-50, will the owners start at 70-30 in 6 years when it's time to do all of this again? Will we all be talking about how unreasonable the players are being for not accepting a 60-40 split, since the owners had to come up 10% from their initial offer and the players had to come down 10% from what they were getting?

The BRI came in to effect in the 1998-99 lockout. It has been at 57% ever since.

The players initially wanted to stay the same - 57%.

The owners initially wanted to move to 40%.

I don't mean to split hairs but by this the players have moved 4% and the owners 10%.

As to the owners coming back in the future, I think they are on a slippery slope when it comes to this. At this point in time, even the players do not disagree they are losing money. The other issue is competitive balance of teams being able to spend, spend, spend while others teams cannot (the LAL/DAL versus IND/MIL debate).


50/50 does seem more than fair to me.

[mcHAPPY]

SheridanHoops.com has some good articles at the top of the list right now that points the finger of blame equally at owners and players alike, some bits:

As the percentages each side said were required for a deal got closer and closer, writers covering negotiations have been more and more dumbfounded that a middle point could not be found. By not playing basketball games in the preseason and now cancelling the first two weeks of the regular season, each side has sacrificed more than it would lose with the other side’s deal. So why not compromise?

And therein lies the problem – the assumption that logic applies; the belief that it is common sense to believe both sides will exercise common sense.

That has been incorrect, which leads to an obvious conclusion. This financial contest is not about dividing revenues fairly.

It’s about winning.

Consider the “concessions” made so far by David Stern and the owners. Originally, they wanted a hard cap (which they knew they could not get) and a rollback in salaries (which they knew would not happen).

So, magnanimously, Stern agreed to drop both. What a great negotiating tactic – drop something you never had and had no chance of getting. And then portray yourself as flexible and dealing in good faith.

It is wonderful to believe that a middle ground exists, but it’s kind of like sharing a dessert with an older brother, who says he has an inalienable right to “the bigger half.”

The owners aren’t the only dubious performers in this dispute. The players have developed an acute sense of entitlement, and while there is no doubt they have contributed greatly to the popularity of the NBA, the league has also provided them with the best playing and traveling conditions in the world. Players also benefit from a tremendous publicity machine and ultra-aggressive marketing. And that’s expensive.

So when we hear the concessions the players have already made amount to more than a billion dollars in “givebacks,” the reaction is laughter. By definition, you can’t give back something you don’t have, and the players do not have a contract.

But all of that is not to say that either side is worth supporting. The players, however, should be aware of this: NHL commissioner Gary Bettman played an integral role in league financial matters during a 12-year career at the NBA. And he shut down his league for a year in 2004-05.

You can be sure that Stern, Bettman’s old boss, knows all the background information on that NHL work stoppage, and it is a certainty that Stern and Bettman have conversed at length.

Since losing a season because of the labor dispute, the NHL has steadily grown. In 2005-06, it had a $39.4 million salary cap per team. This season, the cap is $64.3 million.

Hockey’s revenues pale to the NBA’s, but the point is that league has been healthier since it was shut down. The NHL contended that some teams lost less money by not playing than playing. And the owners of the big market teams likely had other businesses that made significant revenues.

Put it this way: Anyone on the Forbes list of wealthiest people in the world did not lose a place on that list because of one season of missed hockey. And the same will be true in basketball.

The players, on the other hand, lost a year of salary and ended up with the same system they would have had without missing a year.

From talking to people after the talks ended Monday night, the players felt the owners were piling on with their demands for system changes, trying to run up the score in a negotiation that clearly, from the get-go, was a case study in what is known as concessionary bargaining – a union trying to hang us onto as much as it could from the old labor deal. (When all of us are old and gray, the only unions that will have survived will represent sanitation workers. If you’ve ever endured a garbage-collection strike, you understand.)

The NBA’s owners have clearly already won this battle, and a 51-49 neighborhood deal was there to be made over the past two days of talks.

But those talks never proceeded to the closure stage. In the 11th hours, Sunday and Monday, the principle players ended up being lawyers instead of humans. They wasted valuable time and many billable hours on side issues instead of the real issue, the money issue – the financial split.

NEW YORK — I am disgusted and speechless.

I trusted wise men to act wisely. I believed in common sense prevailing. I think the NBA owners are nuts to go down this road. They just lost a significant percentage of their fair-weather fans.

Idiocy rules the day. How very, very sad.

Not just sad. Stupid.