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The Lockout & the Raptors: Players approve CBA, Owners too! (1944)

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  • Apollo wrote: View Post
    Score! So if the Raptors drop Calderon with the amnesty clause they'll have roughly $21M to play with. What I think is more likely now though is that they don't use the Amnesty clause at all and Calderon's contract run out on it's own. The reason I say this is because no matter what they have to pay the money, they currently have ten guys on roster and Colangelo has recently stated they're going to build from within and have no plans of going after a star in free agency this year. Also consider that Colangelo is free to use the clause going forward on any one person who is currently signed to a deal. So, next summer for example when Ray Felton is available he could use the clause on Calderon then if he wishes. Alternatively he could save it to use on one of his long term deals(Andrea or Amir) later if they don't pan out.
    If they could find a way to drop Calderon and Bargnani, they would have 5 quality players under contract (ED, DD, Kleiza, JJ, Amir) plus Alabi and 2 players on rookie deals (JV and 2012 pick) - that takes them to 8 players with a payroll of about $26M. That means they could - theoretically - offer 2 max contracts in free agency 2012 or acquire expensive talent with the shell of a roster already in place and round out the roster with 3 minimum contract players.

    Toronto would be the only team able to offer 2 max contracts in free agency or take on contracts (Gay?) with a quality roster with depth already assembled. If the luxury tax remained the same, resigning DD would not be an issue either.


    The future looks very bright for Toronto - especially if the draft eligibility remains the same.

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    • I think Andrea will get a full season to prove himself to Casey.

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      • Apollo wrote: View Post
        I think Andrea will get a full season to prove himself to Casey.
        And if he did that, they'd have 9 very good players under contract and able to fill out the roster with a max player and a well paid starter.... how about Gay and Felton? Or Dwight and Felton? lol

        I don't think those would happen but it is fun to speculate.

        The future really is bright - despite the Negative Nellies.

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        • I think Felton could be in the cards. The Raptors will be a very good looking to team for a guy in Ray's shoes. I mean he would enter here and become the leader of his own team from day one. The team would fit his game perfectly.

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          • It's funny with all the posturing and talk n the media about hard caps and overhauls of the system, it is appearing that the CBA won't be all that much different from before. Just how the money is shared.

            As for the Raptors and being able to take on two max contracts, remember that they'll eventually have to pay DeRozan, Davis and Valanciunas. And it does appear they may be more of a penalty for teams that overspend, so I doubt they want to go down that route. I can see them trying to sign one big name free agent next summer, but not two. There simply wouldn't be room in the starting lineup for two max contract players AND DeRozan, Davis, Valanciunas and next year's lottery pick, anyway.
            Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
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            • I wouldn't say that just yet. Luxury tax is going to be huge now. This new CBA won't directly affect the Raptors much but indirectly it will in the way of it forcing the big spenders to spend less. I feel the higher luxury tax will drop the average salary down a little as well. Then there probably isn't going to be an BAE and the MLE will be smaller.

              Tim W. wrote: View Post
              As for the Raptors and being able to take on two max contracts, remember that they'll eventually have to pay DeRozan, Davis and Valanciunas. And it does appear they may be more of a penalty for teams that overspend, so I doubt they want to go down that route. I can see them trying to sign one big name free agent next summer, but not two. There simply wouldn't be room in the starting lineup for two max contract players AND DeRozan, Davis, Valanciunas and next year's lottery pick, anyway.
              Excellent point. This is probably why Colangelo has said he won't be a big player in free agency. This is also another reason why I feel he won't immediately take advantage of the Amnesty Clause. He's going to keep that card in his back pocket and in the worst case scenario he can use it to drop Bargnani or Johnson.

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              • Tim W. wrote: View Post
                It's funny with all the posturing and talk n the media about hard caps and overhauls of the system, it is appearing that the CBA won't be all that much different from before. Just how the money is shared.

                As for the Raptors and being able to take on two max contracts, remember that they'll eventually have to pay DeRozan, Davis and Valanciunas. And it does appear they may be more of a penalty for teams that overspend, so I doubt they want to go down that route. I can see them trying to sign one big name free agent next summer, but not two. There simply wouldn't be room in the starting lineup for two max contract players AND DeRozan, Davis, Valanciunas and next year's lottery pick, anyway.

                Valanciunas and 2012 rookie will be coming off their rookie deals whenever a max contract signed in 2012 would be expiring.

                DD could be resigned with Calderon's cap space as you discussed before.

                ED could be resigned with Bargnani's space down the road. At some point before the end of the 2013-2014 season (2 years) there will have to be a choices made between ED, Amir, and Bargnani.

                Where the luxury tax is will most definitely determine ability to add major salary in the summer of 2012 free agency or before via trade.

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                • Apollo wrote: View Post
                  Excellent point. This is probably why Colangelo has said he won't be a big player in free agency. This is also another reason why I feel he won't immediately take advantage of the Amnesty Clause. He's going to keep that card in his back pocket and in the worst case scenario he can use it to drop Bargnani or Johnson.
                  What kind of worst case scenario would involve cutting a young, athletic and productive big man with a reasonable contract?
                  Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
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                  • Tim W. wrote: View Post
                    What kind of worst case scenario would involve cutting a young, athletic and productive big man with a reasonable contract?
                    I'm going to pretend you're talking about Bargnani

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                    • Approximate cap and luxury tax levels

                      I have not seen this anywhere else (the proposed sections) - anyone else?


                      From HoopsWorld.com:

                      Approximate Cap/Tax Levels

                      Last season, teams averaged about $67.5 million in payroll.

                      The rules are still in flux but if the cap is set to $7 million less than the average (as proposed), it’d be about $60.5 million for the coming season.

                      The players are going to get compensated less than they did a year ago but that may not directly impact the cap number itself but on reductions in contract length, raises and harsher tax penalties to discourage spending.

                      In fact, the new CBA is expected to have a higher payroll floor than the previous term. It’s also noteworthy that the total player salaries last season did not reach 57% of BRI.

                      Additionally, if the tax is $5 million more than the average (as proposed), it would be set at about $72.5 million.

                      There’s no true way to know today where those numbers will fall but that’s a reasonable estimate. Naturally if the cap sticks at $58 million or drops any lower, the projections to follow would be similarly impacted.

                      http://www.hoopsworld.com/nba-cba-sc...s-amnesty-cut/

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                      • Matt52 wrote: View Post
                        I have not seen this anywhere else (the proposed sections) - anyone else?


                        From HoopsWorld.com:
                        I think there's some real confusion in this article about what "mean" is as opposed to "median" and how this will all work out.

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                        • After Billy Hunter made the grand stand of marching out of Friday’s bargaining session, refusing to negotiate below 52 percent of the NBA’s revenue split, a strong movement within the Players Association emerged that vowed the union will never let him act so unilaterally again.

                          From superstars to midlevel players to rookies, there’s an unmistakable push to complete the final elements of the system and take this labor deal to the union’s 400-plus membership. Beyond that, there’s an even larger movement to push Hunter, the Players Association’s executive director, out the door once these labor talks are done. All hell’s broken loose within the union, and no one is exactly sure how they’re going to get a deal to the finish line.

                          http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_yl..._hunter_110111
                          Woj at Yahoo! with a scathing write up on Billy Hunter. As the bolded section reads.....


                          With no rollbacks, guaranteed contracts still in place, no hard cap, a $5M exemption still in play, and a reported $58M soft cap and $70M luxury tax (i.e. the same), the players have not walked away empty handed in comparison to what the owners originally wanted. They fought a good fight but now they are going to cut off their nose to spite their face.

                          Have another 15 hour session and scrape out a 51% BRI if you can but when they inevitably cannot, take the 50-50 with no luxury tax exemptions for tax payers.


                          *EDIT* Oh yeah, and hold out to keep draft eligibility the same - until 2013 draft at least!
                          Last edited by mcHAPPY; Tue Nov 1, 2011, 07:55 PM.

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                          • Matt52 wrote: View Post
                            Woj at Yahoo! with a scathing write up on Billy Hunter. As the bolded section reads.....


                            With no rollbacks, guaranteed contracts still in place, no hard cap, a $5M exemption still in play, and a reported $58M soft cap and $70M luxury tax (i.e. the same), the players have not walked away empty handed in comparison to what the owners originally wanted. They fought a good fight but now they are going to cut off their nose to spite their face.

                            Have another 15 hour session and scrape out a 51% BRI if you can but when they inevitably cannot, take the 50-50 with no luxury tax exemptions for tax payers.


                            *EDIT* Oh yeah, and hold out to keep draft eligibility the same - until 2013 draft at least!
                            Whoa...that was a hatchet job on Hunter!! Seems to me the agents have turned on him as well (I ve read Woj gets his info from them). They have to be scared to lose the year and all that commission.

                            I think you are being generous about PA achievements on the system issues...the main one being going over the lux. cap is going to be a killer. Right now many teams if not most are very close to the 70 mill. right? There was also give on the contract lengths and a one year difference between a retaining team signing and f/a signing elsewhere. We need to see the final agreement.

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                            • Bendit wrote: View Post
                              Whoa...that was a hatchet job on Hunter!! Seems to me the agents have turned on him as well (I ve read Woj gets his info from them). They have to be scared to lose the year and all that commission.

                              I think you are being generous about PA achievements on the system issues...the main one being going over the lux. cap is going to be a killer. Right now many teams if not most are very close to the 70 mill. right? There was also give on the contract lengths and a one year difference between a retaining team signing and f/a signing elsewhere. We need to see the final agreement.
                              Given what the owners wanted initially, I still think they have done well.

                              Also, if the minimum of the soft cap which must be spent (currently at 75%) is raised to the 85% area (like NFL and NHL) then the total dollars are going to remain the same to the players.

                              You are absolutely correct in needing to see the final agreement.

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                              • they just need to get this deal done. like now!
                                "They're going to have to rename the whole conference after us: Toronto Raptors 2014-2015 Northern Conference Champions" ~ ezzbee Dec. 2014

                                "I guess I got a little carried away there" ~ ezzbee Apr. 2015

                                "We only have one rule on this team. What is that rule? E.L.E. That's right's, E.L.E, and what does E.L.E. stand for? EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY. Right there up on the wall, because this isn't just a basketball team, this is a lifestyle. ~ Jackie Moon

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