The Lockout & the Raptors: Players approve CBA, Owners too! (1944)

[mcHAPPY]

it's getting ridiculous out there. I figure if the union doesn't accept this deal (the owners keep coming up and up and the union hasn't done anything) then I'm done looking at anything NBA until the deal is closed. It's getting pathetic and the threat to decertify when the league has come up and up for them just ticks me off.

My frustration is not the moving up on BRI - and it should be noted the players have also come down - it is the constant moving on system issues.

Hard cap to flex cap to soft cap with really punitive luxury tax to soft cap with reasonable tax to soft cap with reasonable tax and restricted exemptions to soft cap with reasonable tax and exemptions.

Rollbacks to all current contracts guaranteed.

No MLE to $3.4M to $5.0M MLE.

5 years franchise/4 years own/3 years other free agent to 5 years/4 years.



I could go on but it has all been discussed before.

The players are calling not getting what they want to be not negotiating in good faith. If the owners just gave them what they wanted then the owners would be negotiating in good faith - huh? Exactly. Give and take. The players have given, the owners have given - the owners have reached a final point and the players have no leverage.

[Sam]

It's all become a dick-swinging contest complete with a racial subtext as mostly-white owners try to show mostly-black players who's boss (and MJ just tries to show whoever that he's boss). I think the season's in real jeopardy which is a shame for fans.

Wish the players had had a bit more balls and vision. I think basketball might have the best shot of all the North American sports at creating a players' league, which would be complicated but could be an improvement for fans if it neutralized the problem that the owners demonstrate - rich guys playing with their expensive toys and not really giving much of a crap what sports fans think.

Come on Kobe, Lebron and the rest - embrace "socialism" and create community-owned teams with star players and everybody getting paid. Who cares about the NBA, I just want to see top-flight ball.

[Apollo]

Let's not kid ourselves here. The stars aren't fighting for the "little guy", who happen to be the majority of the league.

[Bendit]

Silent majority speaking out?

Seems there is a move to gather some momentum towards allowing a vote on the current owner offer.....

As the NBA and Players Association trudge toward a possible doomsday deadline, Los Angeles Lakers star Kobe Bryant urged owners to meet with the players union before Wednesday and spare the league from “spiraling into a nuclear winter.”

“We need for the two sides to get together again before Wednesday, because we’re too close to getting a deal done,” Bryant told Yahoo! Sports on Monday. “We need to iron out the last system items and save this from spiraling into a nuclear winter.”

The NBA and Players Association are discussing setting up a meeting for Tuesday to try and reach agreement on a labor deal, a league source told Yahoo! Sports. Nothing is finalized, but the sides were working toward having a session in New York before Wednesday’s league-imposed deadline for the union to accept the owners’ current offer.


Lakers guard Steve Blake has been canvassing peers throughout the league over the past 48 hours, pushing them to contact team player representatives to push the Players Association to let its 450-plus membership vote on the owner’s ultimatum offer, sources said.

Blake hasn’t been pushing players to vote “yes” or “no” on the deal but has gained a groundswell of support with players throughout the league. Nevertheless, Blake is a proponent of accepting the league’s current offer, sources said.

As a counter, there are multiple players pushing to get a petition together to start the process of decertifying the union, perhaps as soon as Wednesday. Agents have little doubt they can muster the 30 percent of the union – approximately 130 players – to push decertification to a formal vote after a 45-day waiting period.

Players representatives of the 30 teams are meeting in New York on Tuesday to discuss the union’s next steps.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slu...110711&print=1

[mcHAPPY]

Seems there is a move to gather some momentum towards allowing a vote on the current owner offer.....



http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slu...110711&print=1

The league needs to have the meeting and offer a minor concession - change the band from 49-51 to 50-52.

[blackjitsu]

Both players and owners agreed on easing the trade rules for teams over the soft cap. The difference in salary had been 125% plus $100K under the old agreement. The players were looking for 200% and the owners were offering 150%.

True, but the penalties the owners want are so aggressive only the Lakers and Mavs could afford to trade while over the cap. Either way, without a copy of the proposal and a calculator no one knows who's right. However, laying down ultimatums (or at least the perception of them) gives the nbpa the PR advantage. At the end of the day, I'm confused how the owners are handling the PR side of this.

[Apollo]

They won't be able to veer far over it based on what I've read about what the tax could look like. Especially with revenue sharing.

[Apollo]

Let them vote

Sports Illustrated's Sam Amick spoke to two agents who represent a combined 19 NBA players.

The agents said all 19 players are in favor of taking the owners' current offer.

Source: RealGM.com

Hunter needs to step aside and let the player vote on it. Who's he working for, them or himself?

[Bendit]

It's all become a dick-swinging contest complete with a racial subtext as mostly-white owners try to show mostly-black players who's boss (and MJ just tries to show whoever that he's boss). I think the season's in real jeopardy which is a shame for fans.

Wish the players had had a bit more balls and vision. I think basketball might have the best shot of all the North American sports at creating a players' league, which would be complicated but could be an improvement for fans if it neutralized the problem that the owners demonstrate - rich guys playing with their expensive toys and not really giving much of a crap what sports fans think.

Come on Kobe, Lebron and the rest - embrace "socialism" and create community-owned teams with star players and everybody getting paid. Who cares about the NBA, I just want to see top-flight ball.

C'mon man! The racial subtext? I thought that was brought up before, regurgitated, found it didnt elicit any creedence and forgotten.

With MJ leading the hawks on the owners side and both the economist and legal counsel (both hawks) on the players side being white...I'll repeat myself...c'mon man.

The only colour relevant here is green and if they change the colour of the US dollar then it'll be that. This is also about change and making a team like the Raptors relevant in the league.

[planetmars]

Apparently Anthony Parker (and some other Cavs/player reps) would reject the current proposal:

Anthony Parker, Cavs player rep, said he favors rejecting deal. Said Cavs teammates and player reps he's spoken with are also against deal.

Parker said players have 2 options: accept deal or decertify. He thinks players could decertify and get deal done in time for season.

Source: Twitter @Chris_Broussard

[albertan_10]

True, but the penalties the owners want are so aggressive only the Lakers and Mavs could afford to trade while over the cap. Either way, without a copy of the proposal and a calculator no one knows who's right. However, laying down ultimatums (or at least the perception of them) gives the nbpa the PR advantage. At the end of the day, I'm confused how the owners are handling the PR side of this.

i would say that the owners have most of hte support. no one likes Miami and the changes would hopefully fix those types of changes/control. The players don't even care about the negotiations. they're off playing charity games and making world tours. if they really cared they would show up at negotiations. and if they do show up and are serious, they'll show up in business attire and not their street clothes. I think they should be properly compensated but they are too comfortable and have been too comfortable.

[blackjitsu]

i would say that the owners have most of hte support. no one likes Miami and the changes would hopefully fix those types of changes/control. The players don't even care about the negotiations. they're off playing charity games and making world tours. if they really cared they would show up at negotiations. and if they do show up and are serious, they'll show up in business attire and not their street clothes. I think they should be properly compensated but they are too comfortable and have been too comfortable.

Owners hated what the Heatles did but the public loved it, and the public drives the league. All the charity games are strategic, they keep the players in the public, show them as charitable people. You are right though, you would think all the top players would be at the negotiations in suits. The optics of that would be pretty intimidating to the owners.

That being said, owners can't gather fan support by putting on charity events. However, I felt the NHL won their lockout by winning the public over. The public knew back then that a number of teams were in real trouble. Everyone knew who those teams were and blamed the greedy players. Struggling owners in the NBA should explain to the public that proper profit sharing won't solve all their problems. They own a TV network, have direct access to media -- maybe they should paint a picture with the tools they have. I don't feel that they are.

[mcHAPPY]

True, but the penalties the owners want are so aggressive only the Lakers and Mavs could afford to trade while over the cap. Either way, without a copy of the proposal and a calculator no one knows who's right. However, laying down ultimatums (or at least the perception of them) gives the nbpa the PR advantage. At the end of the day, I'm confused how the owners are handling the PR side of this.

I think you are confusing soft cap with luxury tax.

There is still an approximate $14-15M window between salary cap and luxury tax (average plus $5M is talk of luxury tax, soft cap talk is it remains the same). Around 21 teams last year spent $65M or higher and the average was $67.5M with the soft cap at $58M. I believe the teams over will still be able to trade, they will just be subject to a tighter percentage.

[mcHAPPY]

Hardline owners upset with Stern, hope players reject

However, a source said later Monday that the owners on the call fear that the player reps will push to approve the deal with the clock ticking.

Stern was not on Monday's call, but the sources said that up to 11 owners took part, including Charlotte's Michael Jordan, Portland's Paul Allen and Milwaukee's Herb Kohl.

"There are at least 15 owners who are praying that the players say no,'' one source said, "because then they'll get the deal they want.''

Stern's second, harsher proposal also calls for "existing contracts rolled back in proportion to system changes in order to ensure sufficient market for free agents," a person who has been briefed on its contents told The Associated Press on condition of anonymity because the contents were supposed to remain private.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/72...er-sources-say

[Apollo]

If the players sign this deal then the league has taken a step in the right direction. I'll be happy with it. We'll get ball and we'll see a system that's more fair to all fans. If the players don't accept the offer then I hope the Owners go for the jugular(hard cap) because it's probably going to be a long lockout anyway.