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The Lockout & the Raptors: Players approve CBA, Owners too! (1944)

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  • A good example of the significance to changes for max players coming off rookie deal:

    KCJHoop K.C Johnson
    That MVP DRose won? Expected to take his max salary extension from $14.5M to $17.4M in Year One. And from $84.2M to $101.6M overall. Wow.

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    • I wish I had seen this before I looked through CBS article looking for differences in proposal 2 weeks ago and this tentative agreement. Memo from Billy Hunter:


      The parties settled the litigation because the owners either gave in or sufficiently compromised on all of the open issues:

      1. BRI Split - Players receive a 49-51 band of BRI, with the expectation that players will receive 51% of BRI by year 6. The split is set on a base case of 50%, with the players receiving 60.5% of every incremental dollar beyond the targeted amount, which is based on the mid-point of the agreed upon projections, or a symmetrical reduction in our share if revenues fall short of the targeted amount. The players' share this first season (2011-12) will be 51.2% of BRI.

      2. System

      a. Mid-Level Exception for Non-Taxpayers: The Mid-Level Exception's contract length is 4 years, every year.

      b. Player Options: Player options are allowed for all players, as per the prior CBA. Owners dropped their demand to eliminate player options for high-paid players.

      c. Escrow: 10% max withholding, 1% New Benefits Pool, system adjustments as necessary to avoid forecasted overage. Owners dropped their demand for unlimited escrow, carry over, true up, or banking.

      d. Qualifying Offers: Beginning in 2012-13, players defined as "starters" - 41 games started or 2000 minutes, average over prior 2 seasons - will receive substantially higher qualifying offers. A first-round pick will receive the greater of his existing qualifying offer or the qualifying offer amount made to the 9th pick of the draft ($4.67 million for the 2010-11 draft class). A second-round pick or undrafted player will receive the qualifying offer amount made to the 21st pick. A first-round pick drafted 1-14 who is not a "starter" receives the amount offered to the 15th pick.

      e. Max Salary: A player finishing his rookie scale contract will be eligible to receive a maximum salary equal to 30% of the Cap (up from 25%) if he signs with his prior team and is either: 1st, 2nd or 3rd team All-NBA 2 times; an All-Star starter 2 times; or 1-time MVP.

      f. Minimum Salary: The owners dropped their demand to reduce the minimum salary scale by 12%. The current amounts will not be reduced.

      g. Rookie Scale: The owners dropped their demand to cut the rookie wage scale. The current amounts will not be reduced.

      h. Extend-and-Trade: The owners dropped their demand to eliminate extend-and-trades. As with sign-and-trades, players moving pursuant to an extend-and-trade may not receive Bird annual increases or one year longer maximum contract length.

      i. Annual Increases: Annual increases will be set at 7.5% for Bird players and 4.5% for non-Bird players.

      j. Taxpayers' Use of Mid-Level Exception & Sign-and-Trade: The owners agreed to a $4 million "apron" above the tax threshold. Teams may go above the tax threshold by $4 million to use the entire $5 million mid-level exception, or acquire a player via sign-and-trade. Teams above the $4 million apron may use a $3 million/3-year mid-level exception every year.

      k. Cliff: No change to prior proposal to reduce the cliff by 50%.

      http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/pos...emo-to-players

      I have picked up on one discrepancy between league and players:

      League says extend and trade is 3 year deal, Billy says 4 years.

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      • So basically everything the Owners were fighting for, which benefited the fans, has been tossed aside to seize a bigger chunk of the BRI. They better get team revenue sharing done after this.

        The Owners are dropping a lot of terms. I don't care what some players are saying they're dropping because to me it looks like the Owners are caving more at this point.

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        • Apollo wrote: View Post
          So basically everything the Owners were fighting for, which benefited the fans, has been tossed aside to seize a bigger chunk of the BRI. They better get team revenue sharing done after this.

          The Owners are dropping a lot of terms. I don't care what some players are saying they're dropping because to me it looks like the Owners are caving more at this point.
          For the first two years - it looks like.

          Any real systemic changes that could alter 'competitive balance' won't come for 2 years.

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          • Yeah but even then it's kind of a let down. I think both sides didn't want to go to court.

            It really irks me that extend and trades aren't going away. They're abolishing sign and trades all together and so now what's going to happen is that the player will cause the disruption during the season leading up to free agency. Abolishing S&T is kind of pointless if you're going to keep the E&T in play. The same crap is going to happen, it's just going to happen earlier now.
            Last edited by Apollo; Sat Nov 26, 2011, 11:28 PM. Reason: .

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            • Apollo wrote: View Post
              Yeah but even then it's kind of a let down. I think both sides didn't want to go to court.

              It really irks me that extend and trades aren't going away. They're abolishing sign and trades all together and so now what's going to happen is that the player will cause the disruption during the season leading up to free agency. Abolishing S&T is kind of pointless if you're going to keep the E&T in play. The same crap is going to happen, it's just going to happen earlier now.
              It bothers me too - especially the 2 year wait. But if a player is willing to accept $45M less guaranteed, then so be it.

              I think it had more to do with sponsorship agreement and national TV deal having approaching out clauses in case of labour disputes causing work stoppage. I feel it is safe to say there will be an opt out in 2018.

              Sign and trades not abolished. Tax teams cannot participate in one that takes them $4M over the luxury tax. Two non tax teams can most definitely participate in such a trade.
              Last edited by mcHAPPY; Sat Nov 26, 2011, 11:28 PM.

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              • They have no mechanism in place in this CBA to keep star players in town. I see no franchise tag even. This is a load of crap. I may sound like a broken record here but this is biggest load of crap I've seen in a while. Big talk, no walk.

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                • Comment


                  • I dont see where a Heat scenario signings of at least 2 max deals cannot be repeated in the future. They just have to time it again where they have a bare bones team for a year (get way under the cap), tank a season...get a high draft choice and sign 2 great talent f/as each to 20 mill contracts and have enough to fill out the roster for a theoretically good to great team.

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                    • Bendit wrote: View Post
                      I dont see where a Heat scenario signings of at least 2 max deals cannot be repeated in the future. They just have to time it again where they have a bare bones team for a year (get way under the cap), tank a season...get a high draft choice and sign 2 great talent f/as each to 20 mill contracts and have enough to fill out the roster for a theoretically good to great team.
                      You mean like the Raptors are going to do in 2012?
                      Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
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                      • Tim W. wrote: View Post
                        You mean like the Raptors are going to do in 2012?
                        This is a great point. Raptors are well positioned to take advantage of this CBA. That said, I'm with Apollo - this sucks for the long term.
                        Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

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                        • Tim W. wrote: View Post
                          You mean like the Raptors are going to do in 2012?
                          This would be inspiring if the Raptors had not dealt with four star players requesting out of Toronto in some shape or form. Or if the Raptors have had a solid track record in being able to lure star players to town. Last time they had major cap space they had to turn over rocks in Europe to get value out of their player investments... Building from within and finding a way to entice players to stay outside of overpaying them is probably how this should play out... Because The Dream with one foot out the door and Hedont isn't a track record that makes me sit back with comfort.

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                          • Bendit wrote: View Post
                            I dont see where a Heat scenario signings of at least 2 max deals cannot be repeated in the future. They just have to time it again where they have a bare bones team for a year (get way under the cap), tank a season...get a high draft choice and sign 2 great talent f/as each to 20 mill contracts and have enough to fill out the roster for a theoretically good to great team.
                            The home team will have the leverage of being the ONLY one able to offer 5 years fully guaranteed with 7.5% raises versus 4 years and 4.5% raises. That has always been the issue in the past: if the home team agrees to a sign and trade, the player gets full advantage of Bird Rights. The choice will be at 25% max rate a 5 year deal worth $88.3 to stay home or a 4 year deal worth $62.1M. At 30% max rate it is a choice of 5 years and $101.6M and 4 years of $74.5M.

                            Bosh and LBJ did not take the absolute max but they didn't leave $25M on the table - it was more like $10M but over 6 years so about $1.7M per season. What happens when they are giving up $5M per season over 5 years?


                            Also, going forward the luxury tax teams are going to have choices to make. If you use the MLE to go $4M over the luxury tax, you can't resign your own free agents. Also luxury tax teams are only going to have the $3M mini-MLE to offer. 3 years at $9M or 4 years at $20M. A mid level player will be giving up $11M in a choice between a tax team and non-tax team.


                            Also, while it will not be an issue for 2 years, the luxury tax will certainly curb spending. Some teams will still go in to the tax but if they go beyond $10M i will be surprised.


                            So long story short, while not perfect or foolproof, there were some incentives achieved for teams to keep their own talent.

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                            • No more rumors: here is the proposed tentative deal

                              http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...eal/index.html


                              Read the tentative agreement in its entirety.

                              Comment


                              • Tim W. wrote: View Post
                                You mean like the Raptors are going to do in 2012?
                                You are not being serious ...are you? I am thinking the life of the agreement and a desirous market team purposely resetting the deck to create exactly the scenario which occurred in Miami...unless you think there was absolutely no subterfuge in that arrangement. I will admit however that I am unsure about some of the subtleties in the agreement that might prevent it. Matt52 has a response above that seems to dampen the possibility because of the contract length but ...

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