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Stein: If not Colangelo, Raps to draft in Embry?

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  • Stein: If not Colangelo, Raps to draft in Embry?

    Pretty interesting. I hope it doesn't come to this though.

    Sources close to the situation told ESPN.com this week that the Raptors do have a backup plan if the current management -- at the urging of staunch anti-Colangelo board member Glen Silvestri -- decides it's best to make an immediate change. Or a change after June 30.

    One possibility management is considering, sources said, is naming Raptors special advisor Wayne Embry as interim GM. In that scenario, Embry and longtime Raptors scouting director Jim Kelly would then either be asked to oversee Toronto's draft in Colangelo's place, or Embry would simply become interim GM as of July 1.
    LINK

  • #2
    I hate this crap. I for one want to see BC try to rebuild, but if you're going to let him go just do it and move on.
    Eh follow my TWITTER!

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    • #3
      sounds like writers just writing up stories. if MLSE is looking to sell, which they are, this silvestri is truly irrelevant to the whole situation. i honestly think that all this speculation is just that until we receive new ownership. now, if they could just hurry up.

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      • #4
        New ownership does not happen overnight - especially with the structure of MLSE with 3 teams of different sports leagues and an asking price of over $1,000,000,000 dollars (that is BILLION).

        The situation is ridiculous and any progress that has been made this year is in jeopardy, in my opinion. I am no longer willing to debate Colangelo's history here because the only arguments are based on hindsight - at the time, each of his major 'failures' met a specific need, they just didn't work out. Clearly there is a plan already under way and to start from scratch with a new GM with a new plan realistically sets the franchise back a season or two. This is not like the POR situation or the NOH situation - both of those teams had proven (and good) NBA players to work with i.e. much more depth/talent/experience.

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        • #5
          Wayne stepped in and sealed the deal(Rose for Davis) that made the Raptors marketable to Colangelo in the first place. He has vast experience but I could have sworn even when Babcock was axed he clearly stated in an interview that being a GM was not something he wanted to do full time in the future. Five years later I would not think his tune changed... So they go with Wayne, ownership changes hands and then what? What time of year are we looking at then? What sorts of candidates are out there to take over? What about the lack of time to get used to their new team and their players' capabilities?

          FYI people, Jim Kelly is a lot to thank for the drafting of Hoffa back in '04. Babcock was on the job a couple weeks prior to the draft and listened heavily to his advisers opinion's. I am pretty sure Jim was a strong supporter of Hoffa. This is what you have to possibly look forward to with a potential top three pick.

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          • #6
            I thought I saw Embry at a lot more away games towards the end of the year.

            He's done the transition once, why not again if needed?

            I guess that Colangelo extension wasn't so much a sure thing was it?

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            • #7
              There's one guy holding up the process Sleepz. It should be a sure thing. Instead we might end up with a guy who probably doesn't want the job and then a guy who isn't qualified and/or lacks experience to do a good job.

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              • #8
                Apollo wrote: View Post
                FYI people, Jim Kelly is a lot to thank for the drafting of Hoffa back in '04. Babcock was on the job a couple weeks prior to the draft and listened heavily to his advisers opinion's. I am pretty sure Jim was a strong supporter of Hoffa. This is what you have to possibly look forward to with a potential top three pick.
                Well, most people seem to like Derozan and Davis and the scouting department had something to do with that.

                Since I'm of two minds on Colangelo I am not overly concerned. If BC is there he will make the best pick he can. If he isn't there then I highly doubt that no work has been done. I suspect that they already have a pretty good idea of how their draft board looks and Embry would be in the loop to some degree.

                Honestly, if they draft outside the top two (the no-brainers) I don't think that Enes Kanter or Kemba Walker are leading the Raps to glory. This draft isn't as material as everyone is making it out to be.

                I am not sure what "progress" has been made this year that is at risk. If anything, it was a massive regression. Necessary in the long run, of course, but a major step back nonetheless. Hopefully, 2011-12 and 12-13 will see progress but I don't think those seasons are at risk of being much worse if Wayne Embry takes over for 6 months.

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                • #9
                  sleepz wrote: View Post
                  I thought I saw Embry at a lot more away games towards the end of the year.

                  He's done the transition once, why not again if needed?

                  I guess that Colangelo extension wasn't so much a sure thing was it?
                  The president and CEO of MLSE and the Chairman of MLSE are both publically behind Colangelo. A bean counter at a pension fund is the issue.

                  The only hope is Tanenbaum exercises his right of first purchase of MLSE. Maybe that is the reason behind the lack of news and rumours about it - maybe he is lining up partners or investors. (S-P-E-C-U-L-A-T-I-O-N)

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                  • #10
                    slaw wrote: View Post
                    Well, most people seem to like Derozan and Davis and the scouting department had something to do with that.
                    I haven't read anything on Jim Kelly being the driving force in either draft pick.

                    slaw wrote: View Post
                    Since I'm of two minds on Colangelo I am not overly concerned. If BC is there he will make the best pick he can. If he isn't there then I highly doubt that no work has been done. I suspect that they already have a pretty good idea of how their draft board looks and Embry would be in the loop to some degree.
                    No one said no work is being done. What I'm telling you is that you don't want the wrong guy making the call. Work had been done in '04 but the wrong guy made a bad call probably based on bad scouting. Raptors' fans distaste in Jim is not a new concept. Google it. I'm sure you'll find lots of history.

                    slaw wrote: View Post
                    Honestly, if they draft outside the top two (the no-brainers) I don't think that Enes Kanter or Kemba Walker are leading the Raps to glory. This draft isn't as material as everyone is making it out to be.
                    Right, so your mentality is that if the pick isn't one of the "sure shots" then who cares? We should care a whole lot more then. Anybody can pick Irving or Williams. If they're picking #3 and beyond they need somebody really competent pulling the trigger. They can't afford to piss away a golden opportunity on landing a nice young player.

                    And please do point out where anybody is suggesting this draft is good. One post out of thousands in here would do. You won't find it. We all know the draft is labeled weak. Weak drafts produce good players too. They called '06 weak and some really nice players came out.

                    slaw wrote: View Post
                    I am not sure what "progress" has been made this year that is at risk. If anything, it was a massive regression. Necessary in the long run, of course, but a major step back nonetheless. Hopefully, 2011-12 and 12-13 will see progress but I don't think those seasons are at risk of being much worse if Wayne Embry takes over for 6 months.
                    They're not at risk of losing anything they've built, they're at risk of losing time and opportunities in the future. Interim GMs do the bare minimum. They're not going to make the signings and trades needed to progress the club. Embry was brought in last time with orders from the board to make the Jalen Rose deal happen and nothing more. He got it done and then stepped aside. Who knows, maybe they can get Silvestri in there to give Wayne some pointers. He seems good at that.

                    Then they need to hire somebody. Who's left by then? You might be singing a different tune when the off-season is wasted and they end up with a guy not as good as Colangelo running things.
                    Last edited by Apollo; Wed Apr 20th, 2011, 04:23 PM. Reason: had more to say. :)

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                    • #11
                      he's the head of the scouting department. how would his influence be any different from 2004 than 2009? everyone likes to use the blame game for haffa. jack, jim, rob are all to blame no more than the other. it was a bad pick. every scouting team/general manager makes the wrong decision from time to time.

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                      • #12
                        Haha. The goof Sirchillymost is commenting on the article. S M H
                        Eh follow my TWITTER!

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                        • #13
                          funkie wrote: View Post
                          he's the head of the scouting department. how would his influence be any different from 2004 than 2009? everyone likes to use the blame game for haffa. jack, jim, rob are all to blame no more than the other. it was a bad pick. every scouting team/general manager makes the wrong decision from time to time.

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                          • #14
                            So, the Raps scouting department has nothing to do with picks unless you can find a media source explicitly quoting their involvement. Got it. I guess they just hang out in their offices all day playing minesweeper. Does the report have to detail the percentage of input they had? Gimme a break. Also, I am well aware of how Raps fans feel about Jim Kelly but your golden boy Colangelo obviously thinks highly enough of him to keep him around and even complimented the scouting department on the last two drafts. Hey, you can Google that!

                            Babcock made a bad call in 2005? No kidding. Did you find that on Google? Thank god we have the guy who drafted PJ Tucker over Paul Milsap. See what I did there?

                            The draft is weak but they can't afford to piss away the opportunity to draft a good young player? The 2006 produced good players but was weak. And.... can you get me a Rosetta Stone to decipher this? Your point can't be that trite can it? There must be more here. If Colangelo is gone are they forfeiting their pick? Giving it away for free? Otherwise, presumably they'll have some chance to actually draft a good player in this weak draft, which everyone knows is weak but will produce really good players or something.

                            A guy not as good as Colangelo? Ah yes, back to the devil you know argument. Hey, breaking up is hard to do and this is certainly a convenient excuse. What's my tune? I'd rather sacrifice one off-season now than sacrifice the next 5 under a GM who has utterly failed to deliver in Toronto. Could it turn out worse? Sure, but I already know waht 5 years of Colangelo looks like and I don't want 5 more.

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                            • #15
                              Apollo wrote: View Post
                              There's one guy holding up the process Sleepz. It should be a sure thing. Instead we might end up with a guy who probably doesn't want the job and then a guy who isn't qualified and/or lacks experience to do a good job.
                              I don't know. I know it's been reported that it's Silvestri but do you think that if he was the only one standing in the way that he wouldn't have been pressured by now to compromise?

                              Does he have enuff juice to block this himself? Wouldn't the Teachers at least step in and ask him the reasons for his denial of BC's extension? I have a feeling there is more to this than we the public know.

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