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In defense of Sonny Weems

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  • #16
    raptorsking wrote: View Post
    i remember last year he was such a good defender.
    But, see, that's exactly the point I raised in the original post. Unless stats and advanced metrics are meaningless, if you look at the numbers, last year he wasn't actually that good of a defender. And this year, he improved his defence to the point that despite playing out of position, he still played better defence than he did last year playing his natural position.

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    • #17
      Just to throw it out there, I'm going to compare Sonny Weems' numbers as a SG this year to those of Aaron Afflalo and Thabo Sefolosha: two young SG's well known for good/excellent defensive play.

      PER/Opp. PER/StlsPG
      Weems: 14.6/12/0.6
      Afflalo: 13.7/16.2/0.5
      Sefalosha: 11.6/13.2/1.2

      Weems' offensive PER is not only better than both of theirs, but his defensive PER is as well. Sefalosha gets more steals and can defend the 3 very well (Opp. PER of 10.7). But he's basically got zero offense (PER at the 3 = 10.1).
      Afflalo is a great 3 point shooter, but his defensive numbers aren't actually that good.

      So? Is it heresy to call it a wash?

      Weems is not only younger than both of them, but he has less experience. His 3 point shooting percentages - while not very good right now - have increased significantly each year, and are basically on par with Sefalosha. Both Afflalo and Sefalosha are starters for playoff teams in the West. A number of people here don't even want Weems back.

      What am I saying? Perception is a funny thing.
      Last edited by jeff_hostetler; Thu Apr 21, 2011, 02:39 PM.

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      • #18
        I for one didn't realize Sonny is smaller than DD and that there is such a difference in his stats depending on the position played. It makes me think resigning him to back up DeMar and moving Barbosa in a package to bring back something really good is a viable option. How does the tandem at the two of DeMar and Sonny compare to Barbosa and DD.

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        • #19
          why is everyone on sonny weems dick. He has a TERRIBLE season, he start off sub par but after that injury to the back he was just not himself. His passion and energy dropped this season by taking bad shots, lazy passes and bad defence. I believe Sonny Weems can redeem himself. I'd say sign him to a 2-3 million 2 year deal and make sure he works hard during this summer. He has really high potential. Hopefully LB gets shipped out for something useful so that Sonny Weems can continue to develop.

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          • #20
            jeff_hostetler wrote: View Post
            Just to throw it out there, I'm going to compare Sonny Weems' numbers as a SG this year to those of Aaron Afflalo and Thabo Sefolosha: two young SG's well known for good/excellent defensive play.

            PER/Opp. PER/StlsPG
            Weems: 14.6/12/0.6
            Afflalo: 13.7/16.2/0.5
            Sefalosha: 11.6/13.2/1.2

            Weems' offensive PER is not only better than both of theirs, but his defensive PER is as well. Sefalosha gets more steals and can defend the 3 very well (Opp. PER of 10.7). But he's basically got zero offense (PER at the 3 = 10.1).
            Afflalo is a great 3 point shooter, but his defensive numbers aren't actually that good.

            So? Is it heresy to call it a wash?

            Weems is not only younger than both of them, but he has less experience. His 3 point shooting percentages - while not very good right now - have increased significantly each year, and are basically on par with Sefalosha. Both Afflalo and Sefalosha are starters for playoff teams in the West. A number of people here don't even want Weems back.

            What am I saying? Perception is a funny thing.
            One thing that is important to keep in mind about OPP PER is "Who is ______ guarding?"

            Afflalo defends the best wing player on the opposing team night in and night out. OPP PER gives a good idea but I don't think it gives the true picture. In other words while OPP PER gives an apples to apples comparison, it could be bruised, wormy apples to fresh, crunchy, juicy and delicious apples.

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            • #21
              Matt52 wrote: View Post
              One thing that is important to keep in mind about OPP PER is "Who is ______ guarding?"

              Afflalo defends the best wing player on the opposing team night in and night out..
              Yeah, I suppose that's true. To add to that, you could argue that when Weems was playing at the 2, he could have been guarding the other teams backup 2. Further heightening the:

              bruised, wormy apples to fresh, crunchy, juicy and delicious apples.
              comparison, which is awesome, by the way.

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              • #22
                Matt52 wrote: View Post
                One thing that is important to keep in mind about OPP PER is "Who is ______ guarding?"

                Afflalo defends the best wing player on the opposing team night in and night out. OPP PER gives a good idea but I don't think it gives the true picture. In other words while OPP PER gives an apples to apples comparison, it could be bruised, wormy apples to fresh, crunchy, juicy and delicious apples.
                I could care less about the PER stats. Anybody watching the games could see that Weems' energy, passion and hustle this season was NOT nearly as high as last season and his defense was significantly worse this season.

                OPP PER stats aren't reliable when evaluating the individual defensive prowess on a team that played significant portions of every game playing ZONE-D!

                Frankly I would rather see Weems leave instead of re-signing him, even for under $2M per season.

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                • #23
                  I was disappointed in Sonny mainly because I had high expectations for him. While I agree that he was overmatched most nights at the 3, it's his effort and decision making that disappointed me the most. He was often late on rotations, and didn't fight through screens as hard. I had no problems with his man defense. On the offensive side, he would force a lot of things, specially passes that lead to turnovers and momentum stops/shifts. It could have been the injury, or maybe distractions of a contract year, but those are my personal observations.

                  That said, I wouldn't mind him back for cheap, probably as injury insurance at the wings. I believe his greatest strengths on the offensive end are knocking down the mid-range and finishing on the break. On the other end, I found that he is most effective guarding the opposing PG or an undersized 2 where he can use his height advantage over them. He is quick enough to stay in front of them when he tries. I'm not totally sold on the idea of him backing up DD, as I am hoping for something better. But if luck isn't on our side, and it probably isn't, I would settle for him. I'd still pick LB over him on the rotation though.

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                  • #24
                    CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
                    I could care less about the PER stats. Anybody watching the games could see that Weems' energy, passion and hustle this season was NOT nearly as high as last season and his defense was significantly worse this season.

                    OPP PER stats aren't reliable when evaluating the individual defensive prowess on a team that played significant portions of every game playing ZONE-D!
                    .
                    I agree watching the games he just wasn't there 75% of the time. He also would chuck up early shot clock shots that killed flow, something not measured in stats.

                    jeff_hostetler wrote: View Post
                    Just to throw it out there, I'm going to compare Sonny Weems' numbers as a SG this year to those of Aaron Afflalo and Thabo Sefolosha: two young SG's well known for good/excellent defensive play.

                    PER/Opp. PER/StlsPG
                    Weems: 14.6/12/0.6
                    Afflalo: 13.7/16.2/0.5
                    Sefalosha: 11.6/13.2/1.2

                    Weems' offensive PER is not only better than both of theirs, but his defensive PER is as well. Sefalosha gets more steals and can defend the 3 very well (Opp. PER of 10.7). But he's basically got zero offense (PER at the 3 = 10.1).
                    Afflalo is a great 3 point shooter, but his defensive numbers aren't actually that good.

                    So? Is it heresy to call it a wash?

                    Weems is not only younger than both of them, but he has less experience. His 3 point shooting percentages - while not very good right now - have increased significantly each year, and are basically on par with Sefalosha. Both Afflalo and Sefalosha are starters for playoff teams in the West. A number of people here don't even want Weems back.

                    What am I saying? Perception is a funny thing.
                    Uh, I'm confused, but pretty sure that the LOWER the number on OPP PER is better, therefore he is not better than Sefalosha or Afflalo, but worse. Not bad, but worse.

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                    • #25
                      Maleko wrote: View Post
                      Uh, I'm confused, but pretty sure that the LOWER the number on OPP PER is better, therefore he is not better than Sefalosha or Afflalo, but worse. Not bad, but worse.
                      Look closer please.

                      Opp. PER
                      Weems: 12
                      Afflao: 16.2
                      Sefalosha: 13.2

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                      • #26
                        i don't even understand why some people have a problem with sonny, the guy i just getting a shot to play and i think h has a bright future
                        "the raptors were my fav team growing up"-kevin durant

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                        • #27
                          jeff_hostetler wrote: View Post
                          Look closer please.

                          Opp. PER
                          Weems: 12
                          Afflao: 16.2
                          Sefalosha: 13.2
                          Thanks Jeff, I was reading the PER line. Ha! Sorry bout that.

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                          • #28
                            i know this is kinda stupid but what does PER mean?

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                            • #29
                              Raptors_ wrote: View Post
                              i know this is kinda stupid but what does PER mean?
                              wiki wrote:
                              The Player Efficiency Rating is ESPN Insider writer John Hollinger's all-in-one basketball rating, which attempts to boil down all of a player's contributions into one number. Using a detailed formula, Hollinger developed a system that rates every player's statistical performance.
                              Wiki wrote:
                              All calculations begin with what is called unadjusted PER (uPER). The formula is:
                              http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/4/7...a8dd22fca8.png

                              Where




                              Once uPER is calculated, it must be adjusted for team pace and normalized to the league to become PER:


                              This final step takes away the advantage held by players whose teams play a fastbreak style (and therefore have more possessions and more opportunities to do things on offense), and then sets the league average to 15.00.
                              Also note that it is impossible to calculate PER (at least in the conventional manner described above) for NBA seasons prior to 1978, as the league did not keep track of turnovers before that year.
                              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Player_Efficiency_Rating

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                              • #30
                                Sonny needs to hang out more with Amir, maybe get Liston to write few articles about him on RR, hire Buddah fan to hype him up and the FreeAmir on tweeter guy from last year to do free Sonny

                                I don't know what happened there with Sonny but he was high on everyone's list last year and suddenly now , no one is willing to give him a chance. I remember people on this board were talking about a 5 year 20 million for sonny this time last year.

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