From RR Homepage: Cap Flexibility Must Be Why "98% of Raptors Fans LOVE Colangelo"

[CalgaryRapsFan]

Says anyone who has little logic and knows little about the game.

How about we make this interesting ?

How about it, Are you man enough, believe enough on what you say and what you write, to make these bets ? Come on Pal, Don't be Chicken, Lets do this. Lets stand by what you write and PROVE me Wrong

Come on, seriously? I've seen enough threads this week turn into back-and-forth he-said/she-saids... if you have a comment about the thread topic make it and move on.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I didn't read anywhere that Matt said he 100% believed those things. He was simply outlining the financial alternatives IF one/both of those things happened.

Could Bargnani get traded before the draft? Yes. So could every other player, since none of them have no-trade clauses.

Could Barbosa choose to re-sign or opt-out? Yes. That is why it is called a player-option.

As far as I can tell, Arse & Matt have done good jobs laying out the various salary cap SCENARIOS. Neither of them have sworn undying allegiances to one scenario or another...

[Raptor4Ever]

Here is reality:

What Arse wrote on the front page was one perspective based on facts that were not 100% accurate.

3) Barbosa says no to $7.6M less than 5% chance? Bargnani traded less than 5% chance? Says who? Seriously, you're better than this.

Says anyone who has little logic and knows little about the game.

You are not presenting reality in this thread. Reality and great writting was presented by Arsenalist on the front page when he presented 4.7 million dollar number and you have the nerve to say it was NOT 100% accurate !!

Your whole theory is the fantasy of a excited Raptor fan with big ifs and highly unlikely scenarios and ... while what Arse pointed out is based on PURE Numbers, length of contracts and ...

Anyway, I am not going to waste my time on this as the readers can compare what you wrote with what Arse wrote and see who has valid points and whose post has some substances BUT

How about we make this interesting ?

1) If AB is traded by July 1st, then I will NOT post here till beginning of the season, if NOT, then you should not make even one post here for that duration

2) If Barbosa opts out of his 8 million dollar contract, then I will NOT post here till after ALL-STAR Break next year and if he did not opt out, then you do not post here till ALL-STAR Break !!

How about it, Are you man enough, believe enough on what you say and what you write, to make these bets ? Come on Pal, Don't be Chicken, Lets do this. Lets stand by what you write and PROVE me Wrong

[mcHAPPY]

It does not matter how the rest of league looks like, what matters how much we have to spend !! Matt's post remind me of those 20 year old girls who go shopping based on money they don't have because they think, If this happens, then that happens and if this goes this way and ... Next you know, they have maxed out a Credit card with 19% and have no job or no cash flow

Trading AB before July 1st ?? Barbosa saying Thank you to 8 million a year with the possibility of lock down and shrink on future salaries !!! These are huge assumptions that no sane person should make and more importantly be happy about.

What is realistic chance of AB being traded before July 1st ? Less than 5%.
What is a realistic chance that Barbosa say NO to 8 million ? Less than 5%.

What Arsenalist wrote on front page is the REALITY and what you read here is a fantasy of an excited Raptor fan.

Here is reality:

1) I said all scenarios were hypothetical. They may or may not happen, the point is no one knows what the new CBA landscape will look like. What we do know is that TOR has $37.4M tied up in 9 players, they may have $45 tied up in 10 if Barbosa opts in, and this leaves them with less salary that 23 of the 30 teams in the league but does not take in to consideration any other possible trade that could add or subtract money from their payroll between now and June 30th.
2) Barbosa said he was not sure if he would pick up his option. Diaw was one player who said he would. I would take things at face value. Barbosa could have an opportunity for a multi-year deal worth more money - maybe less per year but it would be more guaranteed money which he may consider more valuable at this stage of his career (28 years old). The reality is you have no idea what Barbosa will do - nor do I.
3) Barbosa says no to $7.6M less than 5% chance? Bargnani traded less than 5% chance? Says who? Seriously, you're better than this.
4) What Arse wrote on the front page was one perspective based on facts that were not 100% accurate. This is another that very well could have a mistake somewhere in it. Your's would be a third, but wait, you didn't reply with anything of substance - just examples of: 1) university aged girls shopping that totally brought in to question reading comprehension skills given the word hypothetical was clearly used after all these scenarios were give and 2) obscure guessing at probabilities and percentages.
5) It very much does matter what the rest of the league looks like because if a hard cap comes in (which is one of the major things the owners with all the leverage are pushing). If this comes to pass, there will only be 6 teams with more money to spend than the Raptors. Keep in mind the owners, with all the leverage, originally tabled a proposal looking for a salary cap reduction to $45M.

Objectivity and an open mind are very useful qualities when discussing situation and scenarios - especially situations and scenarios that are to be determined. One thing I've noticed in your posts is objectivity and an open mind are very often lacking. In the words of C&C Music Factory: "Free your mind and the rest will follow." While I am a person of strong conviction, I do listen to reason but looking at your reply, once again, there is very little reason or concrete facts offered to make me question my opinions. Arguments with a foundation of hindsight and personal opinions and emotions do very little to make a compelling counter-argument.

[Raptor4Ever]

I didn't really get the post on the homepage given the CBA uncertainty. No one knows what the world will look like next year. I think Matt's point is a good one, namely, regardless of whatever the new CBA requires, the Raptors are in decent shape compared to everyone else.

It does not matter how the rest of league looks like, what matters how much we have to spend !! Matt's post remind me of those 20 year old girls who go shopping based on money they don't have because they think, If this happens, then that happens and if this goes this way and ... Next you know, they have maxed out a Credit card with 19% and have no job or no cash flow

Trading AB before July 1st ?? Barbosa saying Thank you to 8 million a year with the possibility of lock down and shrink on future salaries !!! These are huge assumptions that no sane person should make and more importantly be happy about.

What is realistic chance of AB being traded before July 1st ? Less than 5%.
What is a realistic chance that Barbosa say NO to 8 million ? Less than 5%.

What Arsenalist wrote on front page is the REALITY and what you read here is a fantasy of an excited Raptor fan.

[Raptor4Ever]

This Thread should be renamed to :

How to turn a positive spin on a 4.7 million Cap Room ??

Watch out Doug Smith, we have someone here who can replace you He is as positive as you even when the team has sucked for last 5 years and seemingly has no where to go

[CalgaryRapsFan]

That would be a bit of work. Anyone who was interested could go to www.HoopsHype.com/salaries.htm to take a look at those players.

The big difference between TOR and the other bottom feeders (WSH, SAC, NJ, LAC) is those teams have spent numerous years in the lottery and have acquired some true pieces to build around with high lottery picks (Wall, Evans/Cousins, Griffin) or a recent trade in NJ's case (D-Will).

Good point. Another reason why fans should have patience when deciding whether or not to retain BC and about the Raptors turnaround in general. With a little luck in the draft lottery and a few good trades, the young nucleous of this team could begin to look very good, relative to other lottery teams - aside from missing a single superstar like LAC (Griffin) or possibly NJ (if D-Will re-signs)... I'm not entirely sold on WSH (Wall) or SAC (Evans/Cousins/Whiteside) yet.

[slaw]

I didn't really get the post on the homepage given the CBA uncertainty. No one knows what the world will look like next year. I think Matt's point is a good one, namely, regardless of whatever the new CBA requires, the Raptors are in decent shape compared to everyone else.

[mcHAPPY]

I'd be curious to see if the players those listed teams have under contract are as good/useful as the players the Raps have under contract, either as long-term pieces or as assets to use in trades. I'd also be curious to compare bad contracts on those teams compared to bad contracts on the Raptors. Might help people to see that the Raps really aren't in that bad of a position (ownership issues aside).

That would be a bit of work. Anyone who was interested could go to www.HoopsHype.com/salaries.htm to take a look at those players.

The big difference between TOR and the other bottom feeders (WSH, SAC, NJ, LAC) is those teams have spent numerous years in the lottery and have acquired some true pieces to build around with high lottery picks (Wall, Evans/Cousins, Griffin) or a recent trade in NJ's case (D-Will).

[CalgaryRapsFan]

When you consider other teams in the league, the Raps are in very good position - especially if a hard cap comes in. They have 10 guys signed up for next year at $45M ($37.4M minus Barbosa with 9 players). The only teams below them in salary are:

WSH - $40.6M with 8 players
SAC - $27.6M with 8 players
NJ - $39.8M with 8 players
MEM - $36.8M with 8 players ($51M with 9 players with ZBo extension)
LAC - $44.9M with 9 players
IND - $34.9M with 10 players
DEN - $40.2 with 8 players

I'd be curious to see if the players those listed teams have under contract are as good/useful as the players the Raps have under contract, either as long-term pieces or as assets to use in trades. I'd also be curious to compare bad contracts on those teams compared to bad contracts on the Raptors. Might help people to see that the Raps really aren't in that bad of a position (ownership issues aside).

[mcHAPPY]

Read Arse's post on the home page of RR:
http://raptorsrepublic.com/2011/04/2...ove-colangelo/

The cap number for next year according to HoopsHype.com is $45.046M not $47M. Assuming current cap of $58M, that is a shade under $13M minus 1st round pick so $9.25M.

The reality is none of us knows what the trade value of Calderon, Bargnani, or Barbosa is. Bargnani, for example, is a BYC so any trade with him before July 1st would only return half his salary ($4.25M), so you can tack on another $4.25M to the available cap number if he was traded. So - possibly - all of a sudden we are at $13.5M. Barbosa opts out - tack on another $7.6M ($21.1M). I do not think he is guaranteed to be here. Take back a few million less than what is going out in any trade and all of a sudden you have a few more M to throw around.

This is all hypothetical, of course, but I think the picture is rosier than depicted in Arse's post.

When you consider other teams in the league, the Raps are in very good position - especially if a hard cap comes in. They have 10 guys signed up for next year at $45M ($37.4M minus Barbosa with 9 players). The only teams below them in salary are:

WSH - $40.6M with 8 players
SAC - $27.6M with 8 players
NJ - $39.8M with 8 players
MEM - $36.8M with 8 players ($51M with 9 players with ZBo extension)
LAC - $44.9M with 9 players
IND - $34.9M with 10 players
DEN - $40.2 with 8 players