Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

If we don't draft KI, JB has be are starting PG next season!

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    I kind of like the idea of starting Bayless. He just seemed to suck so much more when he had a really short leash.

    But then again But then again you could argue that Bayless played better when Jose was injured, NOT when he was starting.
    Eh follow my TWITTER!

    Comment


    • #32
      Bayless put up a lot of points towards the end of the season and shot a good percentage, but his scoring was never in question. The kid can get his. Can he lead a team? What was their record in the games he started and what were his assist totals for that period?

      When his shot his falling it's like having Jamal Crawford on the floor, but when it's not he really doesn't bring anything else to the game.

      Comment


      • #33
        There is no evidence that Bayless plays better D than Calderon. The Raptors defence was better (by the numbers) with Calderon on the floor than Bayless. Calderon also got more steals, bth per game and per 36 minutes. Hey also played against tougher lineups. Bayless's defense is a myth.

        Comment


        • #34
          j bean wrote: View Post
          Jose was good for less than 10 points a game last year while playing over 30 min. When he turns down open looks and passes because he's unsure of his shot that isn't being a true floor general. When you combine that with his defensive challenges I think he's contributing more of a losing influence than a calming influence. Another point to consider is why is there always a controversy with Jose on whether he should start or come off the bench no matter who the other PG is?
          That's true his never been able to separate him self from the back up. I think that all you raptor fans like him cause his safe
          @Chr1st1anL

          Comment


          • #35
            My 1st Choice: draft Irving --> trade Bayless

            My 2nd Choice: unable to draft Irving (I would take him 1st overall) --> start Bayless, Calderon backup


            I do NOT believe Bayless is the PG of the Raps future. However, if the Raps are unable to draft Irving, I would give the starting job to Bayless and give him the chance to prove me and his other critics wrong. Giving him the legit ongoing opportunity to start and play with the core nucleous (Davis, DeRozan and draft pick) will determine once and for all whether or not Bayless can become the PG of the future. If not, then starting him showcases him to improve his trade value, at the very least.

            As much as I like Calderon, he is absolutely not part of the long-term plans for the Raps franchise and needs to relinquish the starting role. Plus, I really like a 2nd unit that is anchored by Calderon, Amir (Davis better be starting PF) and Barbosa (if he's still here). Calderon and Amir have good chemistry already and Calderon's calm pass-first approach would mesh well with Barbosa's driving/shooting mentality in the backcourt. And, if the Raps do find a defensive C and also keep Bargnani, then a Bargnani/Amir/Barbosa/Calderon unit, along with J.Jonson/Kleiza, would be a pretty good veteran backup unit.

            If the Raps keep their top-6 (worst case) draft pick and are unable to draft Irving, I wouldn't pick another PG. I think Irving will become significantly better in the long-term than Bayless, but I don't feel the same way about the other top PG (ie: Walker/Knight). If the Raps can't get Irving, I feel they are better off strengthening another position (ie: Williams/Kanter) and giving Bayless the opportunity to prove his long-term worth to the franchise.
            Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Fri May 6, 2011, 03:20 PM.

            Comment


            • #36
              Interesting stats gathered by BorisD at the Raptors space community page:

              Okay, so side-by-side - Jerryd vs. Hose B as starters - all stats, here we go:

              Points Produced / Pace Adjusted 36 minutes: Bayless 20.6, Calderon 14.8 (Bayless, + 5.8)
              % of Team's Possessions Borne Individually while on the floor: Bayless 24.5%, Calderon 19.1% (Bayless, + 5.4%)
              ORat: Bayless 121.9, Calderon 112.5 (Bayless, + 9.4)
              effective FG%: Bayless 53.7%, Calderon 50.5% (Bayless, 3.2%)
              True Shooting %: Bayless 59.1%, Calderon 53.4% (Bayless, 5.7%)
              Free throws / 100 Field Goal Attempts: Bayless 31.5, Calderon 13.1 (Bayless, + 18.4)
              Percentage of teammates' field goals assisted: Bayless 36.0%, Calderon 42.8% (Calderon, + 6.8%)
              Turnovers as percentage of Individual Possessions: Bayless 15.2%, Calderon 19.0% (Bayless, + 3.8%)
              Percentage of Total Available Rebounds Grabbed: Bayless 7.0%, Calderon, 5.9% (Bayless, + 1.1%)
              Stop%: Bayless 47.1%, Calderon 40.3% (Bayless, + 6.8%)
              Points allowed per 100 possessions faced: Bayless 114.8, Calderon 116.1 (Bayless, + 1.3)
              Net Points / Pace Adjusted 36 minutes: Bayless +3.8, Calderon -1.8 (Bayless, + 5.6)

              In other words, as a starter Jerryd Bayless has done absolutely everything better than Calderon and in some cases hugely better. The only thing Jose has done better is he assists on more of his teammates' field goals than Jerryd does (but surprisingly turns it over more than Jerryd). That has not translated into team success, as our offensive rating is 105.6 in the games in which Jose starts and 110.2 when Jerryd starts.
              This is hardly scratching the surface of statistical analysis, and probably a little cherry picked to favour Bayless, but a few important notes I see here are that Jose's turnover % is actually higher, just that he assists more so his assist/turnover ratio is better, but of note is the higher offensive rating with Bayless starting. I was a little surprised at that.

              Link to page 3 of the discussion: http://community.raptorspace.com/top...er.html?page=3

              Comment


              • #37
                CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
                My 1st Choice: draft Irving --> trade Bayless

                My 2nd Choice: unable to draft Irving (I would take him 1st overall) --> start Bayless, Calderon backup


                I do NOT believe Bayless is the PG of the Raps future. However, if the Raps are unable to draft Irving, I would give the starting job to Bayless and give him the chance to prove me and his other critics wrong. Giving him the legit ongoing opportunity to start and play with the core nucleous (Davis, DeRozan and draft pick) will determine once and for all whether or not Bayless can become the PG of the future. If not, then starting him showcases him to improve his trade value, at the very least.

                As much as I like Calderon, he is absolutely not part of the long-term plans for the Raps franchise and needs to relinquish the starting role. Plus, I really like a 2nd unit that is anchored by Calderon, Amir (Davis better be starting PF) and Barbosa (if he's still here). Calderon and Amir have good chemistry already and Calderon's calm pass-first approach would mesh well with Barbosa's driving/shooting mentality in the backcourt. And, if the Raps do find a defensive C and also keep Bargnani, then a Bargnani/Amir/Barbosa/Calderon unit, along with J.Jonson/Kleiza, would be a pretty good veteran backup unit.

                If the Raps keep their top-6 (worst case) draft pick and are unable to draft Irving, I wouldn't pick another PG. I think Irving will become significantly better in the long-term than Bayless, but I don't feel the same way about the other top PG (ie: Walker/Knight). If the Raps can't get Irving, I feel they are better off strengthening another position (ie: Williams/Kanter) and giving Bayless the opportunity to prove his long-term worth to the franchise.
                I couldn't agree more. Need to give the guy a shot to prove himself.
                @Chr1st1anL

                Comment


                • #38
                  Another lackey who gathered some data, Medic at RealGM. (Feeling lazy today):

                  Bayless as a starter:

                  14 games (4-10)
                  35 min
                  86/179 (.480) shooting
                  17/ 51 (.333) 3pt shooting
                  64/ 79 (.800) FT%
                  5.64 FTAPG
                  18.1 PPG
                  6.7 APG
                  3.6 RPG
                  1.0 SPG
                  2.9 TOV PG
                  2.29 ASST/ TO ratio (37th amongst NBA guards, just behind JJ Barea)
                  0.59 TS% (3rd in the league out of all PG's behind Billups & Nash. 29th overall in the league)
                  I gotta say, 18.1 and 6.7 is nice out of the PG as a starter. His assist to turnover ratio is still poor, and he needs to be better there, but simply his ability to get to the line and put the other team into foul trouble (getting us shooting into penalty earlier as well) is undervalued since he gets to the line almost 3x the rate that Jose does (5.7 FTA to 2.2 per 36mins).

                  EDIT: sorry adding the discussion link: http://forums.realgm.com/boards/view...9c16be9f6266b8

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    I think you definately start bayless, he has earned a shot for sure, that being said with 2 decent starting point guards on our team already the PG is not a spot that we lack depth in. We need to draft a SF.

                    Ive been saying all along: draft a SF, get a C through free agency, and start bayless. That is the key to raptors improving their defense and become contendors. This doesnt necessarily mean trading bargnani btw.

                    When a guy average 22.5 points a game for the last 10 games of the year for you, and you always know he had that kind of potential, and has blown out like that for portland at times when given the chance. You finally give the kid his shot.
                    "Defense wins championships."

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Maleko wrote: View Post
                      Another lackey who gathered some data, Medic at RealGM. (Feeling lazy today):



                      I gotta say, 18.1 and 6.7 is nice out of the PG as a starter. His assist to turnover ratio is still poor, and he needs to be better there, but simply his ability to get to the line and put the other team into foul trouble (getting us shooting into penalty earlier as well) is undervalued since he gets to the line almost 3x the rate that Jose does (5.7 FTA to 2.2 per 36mins).

                      EDIT: sorry adding the discussion link: http://forums.realgm.com/boards/view...9c16be9f6266b8
                      I concur, plus one thing that we have neglected to mention I think is the fact that bayless is a great closer. At the end of the game when baskets become hard to come by you need people who can get to the line, Bayless + Demar = nightmare for other teams trying to keep them off the stripe.
                      "Defense wins championships."

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        SuperRaptor wrote: View Post
                        I concur, plus one thing that we have neglected to mention I think is the fact that bayless is a great closer. At the end of the game when baskets become hard to come by you need people who can get to the line, Bayless + Demar = nightmare for other teams trying to keep them off the stripe.
                        Bayless and DeRozan could make a pretty dynamic back court. Everybody is always saying trade bargnani but, if we do who we going to get points from in the starting line up? Definitely not CALDERON! Bayless would pick up the slack if Bargnani gets traded this off-season
                        @Chr1st1anL

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
                          Bayless and DeRozan could make a pretty dynamic back court. Everybody is always saying trade bargnani but, if we do who we going to get points from in the starting line up? Definitely not CALDERON! Bayless would pick up the slack if Bargnani gets traded this off-season
                          +1

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            An honest question, will he turn into another mike james...? He's approaching free agency too i think, just like james was..

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              The Raptors have nothing to lose and everything to gain by making JB the starting PG. I'm not advocating giving it to him but if he works his @ss off over the summer (and possibly fall and in to winter) and has a good training camp, why not have him start? The worst case scenario is the Raptors suck and get another high lottery pick. The best case is he proves he is a legit NBA starting point guard and the Raptors suck and get another high lottery pick. I'm feeling very cynical this evening - excuse me for that.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Matt52 wrote: View Post
                                The Raptors have nothing to lose and everything to gain by making JB the starting PG. I'm not advocating giving it to him but if he works his @ss off over the summer (and possibly fall and in to winter) and has a good training camp, why not have him start? The worst case scenario is the Raptors suck and get another high lottery pick. The best case is he proves he is a legit NBA starting point guard and the Raptors suck and get another high lottery pick. I'm feeling very cynical this evening - excuse me for that.
                                lol
                                "Defense wins championships."

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X