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NBA's Most Harmful Players

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  • #16
    Tim W. wrote: View Post
    I came across this article about the NBA's most harmful players.. Guess who's #1?

    Interestingly, Johnny Flynn is 6th. Will playing in a different system help? Is this the exact same excuse people use for Bargnani?

    There aren't too many surprises on the list. Guys I've never liked, like Villanueva and Aaron Brooks.

    Oh, and Minnesota has 3 of the top 6, including 2 and 3. Is it any wonder they finished with the worst record?
    That list should not be a suprise. Its filled with tweeners and inefficient guys.

    While I normally agree with you Tim, Johnny Flynn should not be a suprise.... the guy sucks.

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    • #17
      hateslosing wrote: View Post
      Neat list but I don't know that I buy his metric. While there are some names there that you expect like Marvin Williams, guys like Glen Davis, Robin Lopez, and Aaron Brooks have always seemed to perform well and Darko had a pretty good year statistically. Maybe I didn't see enough of them this year.
      Its not Marvin Williams, its Mo Williams.

      Robin Lopez and Aaron Brooks had absolutely terrible years this year (Brooks better after the trade). Darko had a pretty good year early if you played fantasy basketball, and then unsuprisingly disappeared.

      Glen Davis, while a hard worker, turned himself into a jump shooter this year.

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      • #18
        GarbageTime wrote: View Post
        That list should not be a suprise. Its filled with tweeners and inefficient guys.

        While I normally agree with you Tim, Johnny Flynn should not be a suprise.... the guy sucks.
        Flynn wasn't a surprise. It was guys like GLen Davis, particularly. I've never been a fan of Flynn.
        Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
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        • #19
          This kinda reminds me of the Razzies. I found it interesting that people took offense to this list, or said it was dumb. Bad teams have bad players, and is it really that surprising the Bargnani tops the list, when we lost 60 games?
          your pal,
          ebrian

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          • #20
            I call it, beating a dead horse.

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            • #21
              ebrian wrote: View Post
              This kinda reminds me of the Razzies. I found it interesting that people took offense to this list, or said it was dumb. Bad teams have bad players, and is it really that surprising the Bargnani tops the list, when we lost 60 games?
              I dont think the list is dumb, but to show a list highlighting the worst players in the league that are playing in the worst teams is pretty much a no-brainer. Its like somebody shouting fire when the whole neighborhood is already standing outside a burning house. State the obvious, so to speak.

              My issue with detractors always putting Bargnani under the bus is that the Raps didnt lose 60 games just because of Bargnani, there were 14 other guys on that team, for me, the whole team lost 60 games. Yes, Bargnani was a big part, and yes, the offense ran through him but 4 other guys were usually playing alongside him who could have, and others actually did, make a difference. Will putting Bargnani out of the equation help? Oh yes, most definitely, no doubt about it. But Im really not sure putting a better player than Bargnani alongside the other four who Bargnani frequently played with will make this instantly a winning team. It will make a difference, but what im getting at is there are other changes to be made to make this team a winner, along with getting rid of Bargnani.

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              • #22
                tbihis wrote: View Post
                I dont think the list is dumb, but to show a list highlighting the worst players in the league that are playing in the worst teams is pretty much a no-brainer. Its like somebody shouting fire when the whole neighborhood is already standing outside a burning house. State the obvious, so to speak.

                My issue with detractors always putting Bargnani under the bus is that the Raps didnt lose 60 games just because of Bargnani, there were 14 other guys on that team, for me, the whole team lost 60 games. Yes, Bargnani was a big part, and yes, the offense ran through him but 4 other guys were usually playing alongside him who could have, and others actually did, make a difference. Will putting Bargnani out of the equation help? Oh yes, most definitely, no doubt about it. But Im really not sure putting a better player than Bargnani alongside the other four who Bargnani frequently played with will make this instantly a winning team. It will make a difference, but what im getting at is there are other changes to be made to make this team a winner, along with getting rid of Bargnani.
                No one thinks simply replacing Bargnani with a better player is going to make the team win. But if he's part of the problem, then it's obvious what needs to happen.

                He's not the reason created the thread, though. As you said, it's stating the obvious. But a lot of people on this board really like Flynn, and there's a lot of evidence to support the argument that he doesn't help you team. Is it because he's on Minnesota? That's the question. Just playing a lot of minutes on a bad team doesn't automatically get you on the list. Kevin Love isn't on it. Neither are any other Raptor starter.

                If Flynn were in a different system (not trying to run the triangle offense) help? Maybe, but that shouldn't effect his defense, which is extremely poor.
                Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
                Follow me on Twitter.

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                • #23
                  Tim W. wrote: View Post
                  No one thinks simply replacing Bargnani with a better player is going to make the team win. But if he's part of the problem, then it's obvious what needs to happen.

                  He's not the reason created the thread, though. As you said, it's stating the obvious. But a lot of people on this board really like Flynn, and there's a lot of evidence to support the argument that he doesn't help you team. Is it because he's on Minnesota? That's the question. Just playing a lot of minutes on a bad team doesn't automatically get you on the list. Kevin Love isn't on it. Neither are any other Raptor starter.

                  If Flynn were in a different system (not trying to run the triangle offense) help? Maybe, but that shouldn't effect his defense, which is extremely poor.
                  How much has to do with his hip which caused him to miss training last summer, training camp in the fall, and to never really be in game shape this season? Also what does it do to a second year's confidence to go from starting 81 of 81 games played to coming back from an injury off the bench and only starting 8 of 53 games?

                  Flynn intrigues me. His college stats were very impressive are his intangibles like character (or so it has been reported) and leadership are supposedly stellar.

                  Also, he is only just turned 22.

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                  • #24
                    Matt52 wrote: View Post
                    How much has to do with his hip which caused him to miss training last summer, training camp in the fall, and to never really be in game shape this season? Also what does it do to a second year's confidence to go from starting 81 of 81 games played to coming back from an injury off the bench and only starting 8 of 53 games?

                    Flynn intrigues me. His college stats were very impressive are his intangibles like character (or so it has been reported) and leadership are supposedly stellar.

                    Also, he is only just turned 22.
                    You very well could be right. A lot of people really liked him coming out of college.
                    Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
                    Follow me on Twitter.

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                    • #25
                      tbihis wrote: View Post
                      I dont think the list is dumb, but to show a list highlighting the worst players in the league that are playing in the worst teams is pretty much a no-brainer. Its like somebody shouting fire when the whole neighborhood is already standing outside a burning house. State the obvious, so to speak.

                      My issue with detractors always putting Bargnani under the bus is that the Raps didnt lose 60 games just because of Bargnani, there were 14 other guys on that team, for me, the whole team lost 60 games. Yes, Bargnani was a big part, and yes, the offense ran through him but 4 other guys were usually playing alongside him who could have, and others actually did, make a difference. Will putting Bargnani out of the equation help? Oh yes, most definitely, no doubt about it. But Im really not sure putting a better player than Bargnani alongside the other four who Bargnani frequently played with will make this instantly a winning team. It will make a difference, but what im getting at is there are other changes to be made to make this team a winner, along with getting rid of Bargnani.
                      This kind of stuff bothers me.

                      No one says this is a winning team without Bargnani or a winning team by substituting Bargnani for a better player. Do people think it would be a better team without him? Probably, but not a winning team. And no one blames Bargnani for all 60 loses.

                      No one in this thread put Bargnani under the bus. I think almost everyone would agree it takes more than just moving Bargnani to improve this team. The Bargnani boys (not yourself but in general) have twisted what the "haters" have said to the point where the more neutral readers have interpretted us to mean that he is the reason for everything. Thats simply not true.

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                      • #26
                        may bad, i think ive turned this into another Bargnani thread. My apologies.

                        Im not a fan of Flynn either, i havent seen him play that much, but im going with the fact that he's not excelling with a team like Minnesota when he's already given a bit of opportunity to show what he can do. Not sure if because of injuries, but ive heard he's quite healthy now and still not producing starter stats, which he was initially pegged to be.
                        Last edited by TheGloveinRapsUniform; Fri May 20, 2011, 12:32 PM.

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                        • #27
                          Tim W. wrote: View Post
                          No one thinks simply replacing Bargnani with a better player is going to make the team win. But if he's part of the problem, then it's obvious what needs to happen.

                          He's not the reason created the thread, though. As you said, it's stating the obvious. But a lot of people on this board really like Flynn, and there's a lot of evidence to support the argument that he doesn't help you team. Is it because he's on Minnesota? That's the question. Just playing a lot of minutes on a bad team doesn't automatically get you on the list. Kevin Love isn't on it. Neither are any other Raptor starter.

                          If Flynn were in a different system (not trying to run the triangle offense) help? Maybe, but that shouldn't effect his defense, which is extremely poor.
                          Actually, ive read a couple of posts here that actually blamed bargnani for the 22 win season, but its kinda tedious to dig the forums then cut and paste them one by one. i know you and garbage time didnt say it, but other posters did. and others might not directly say it, but its fairly obvious that they are insinuating it. if somebody says constantly that ed, amir, dd, bayless, JJ, reggie, jose played outstanding and not include bargnani, then pretty much youre drawing a conclusion that bargnani being the focal point of the team this year was the reason it was a wash or maybe im the only one who came to this conclusion....

                          anyways, again, my bad with the bargnani tirade. closed!

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                          • #28
                            GarbageTime wrote: View Post
                            This kind of stuff bothers me.

                            No one says this is a winning team without Bargnani or a winning team by substituting Bargnani for a better player. Do people think it would be a better team without him? Probably, but not a winning team. And no one blames Bargnani for all 60 loses.

                            No one in this thread put Bargnani under the bus. I think almost everyone would agree it takes more than just moving Bargnani to improve this team. The Bargnani boys (not yourself but in general) have twisted what the "haters" have said to the point where the more neutral readers have interpretted us to mean that he is the reason for everything. Thats simply not true.
                            I wasnt gonna go into the Bargnani discussion again, but it bothers me that it bothers you.

                            like i said in my response to tim, some have said it and some have insinuated it, not you and tim but others. Id rather you not say "no one" because there are a million posts here and i dont think youve read all of them so to assume "no one" is a bit presumptuous.

                            the other thing that "bothers" me is the constant labeling, bargnani boys, bargnani haters, etc etc. if you dont want to be labeled as haters then dont label others as boys. just because we defended bargnani in some aspects that instantly makes us "bargnani boys". bargnani is still a raptor so i try to find some solace with him still with the team. again, as ive always said, dont get me wrong, id prefer to have bargnani out of the rotation but as it stands, he's still a raptor so i guess use him in whatever way possible that he can contribute.

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                            • #29
                              Matt52 wrote: View Post
                              How much has to do with his hip which caused him to miss training last summer, training camp in the fall, and to never really be in game shape this season? Also what does it do to a second year's confidence to go from starting 81 of 81 games played to coming back from an injury off the bench and only starting 8 of 53 games?
                              Flynn took a much higher percentage of jump shots in his second year and drew fouls at a much lower rate.

                              Was his role changed so drastically? I have no clue as I did not watched any basketball games from 2002-03 to 2009-10. Was he not entirely recovered from the hip injury? Is it a permanent result of the injury?

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                              • #30
                                tbihis wrote: View Post
                                Actually, ive read a couple of posts here that actually blamed bargnani for the 22 win season, but its kinda tedious to dig the forums then cut and paste them one by one. i know you and garbage time didnt say it, but other posters did. and others might not directly say it, but its fairly obvious that they are insinuating it. if somebody says constantly that ed, amir, dd, bayless, JJ, reggie, jose played outstanding and not include bargnani, then pretty much youre drawing a conclusion that bargnani being the focal point of the team this year was the reason it was a wash or maybe im the only one who came to this conclusion....

                                anyways, again, my bad with the bargnani tirade. closed!
                                The posters that blamed the 22 win season on Bargnani are just as "deluded" as the posters who think he's an All-Star. Don't read the extremist point of view and assume it's the norm.
                                Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
                                Follow me on Twitter.

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