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Anyone else scared that BC is backed into a 2 year corner?

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  • Anyone else scared that BC is backed into a 2 year corner?

    I think this one's on ownership. Giving a GM like BC 2 short seasons to get your team to show solid, measurable growth is tough. Doing it while trying to climb out of the basement, without a real franchise player and without the pick to land one, while heading into a tightening financial situation, puts BC right back where he was with Bosh, only with less talent and yet another rookie coach/system/roles/required practice time. To a guy that likes to take risks and move pieces around rather than let things develop, that's a good reason to deal and hope it works out.

    Could be a crazy couple of years.

  • #2
    Not at all. The time to be scared was this year with an expiring contract and just losing the best player with a $14.5M TPE on the table. Measurable growth is not hard to achieve when you have a 22 win season to build on. There is a team option for year 3 so if the team is not knocking on the door of the playoffs in 2 seasons, it is debatable to keep him on for the third year and if they are there in 3 years it is time for him to go anyways.

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    • #3
      I'm not scared at all. I'm actually a little relieved that they made a decision. It was been stalled for too long. Colangelo has mentioned he may look to hire an experienced GM to take that title. He wants another strong basketball mind in the head office. I don't know if that was an indirect hit to Maurizio but things are changing in Raptorsland. Colangelo has publicly changed his vision of what he's looking for in a team. He's back now so when need to give him the benefit of the doubt and see what he does. He's won two executive of the year awards. He knows his ball and now he's saying the right things. Over the past or so he's also been doing the right things in the draft. I've been saying for a while now it's foreshadowing of a philosophy change.

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      • #4
        Fear is a great motivator. The cushy five year deals are long gone in this new climate. He needs to stop bringing in his friends and start approaching minds that may actually go against his thinking once in a while. I posted this before when Alex Anthopoulos went in as GM, he took the best coach possible. John Farrell went ahead and took the unusual road of not bringing in his coaches. The Jays, as young as they are, in the league's toughest division, remains competitive. I'm sick and tired of "his people" (see Maurizio Gherardini). And look at what happens when things don't work out (they stay on as "consultants" - further burdening the franchise with useless people on the payroll).

        I'm sure MG will be retained as the special assistant to the traveling secretary (see George Costanza). Get working on the Penske file Maurizio!

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        • #5
          Balls of Steel wrote: View Post
          Fear is a great motivator. The cushy five year deals are long gone in this new climate. He needs to stop bringing in his friends and start approaching minds that may actually go against his thinking once in a while. I posted this before when Alex Anthopoulos went in as GM, he took the best coach possible. John Farrell went ahead and took the unusual road of not bringing in his coaches. The Jays, as young as they are, in the league's toughest division, remains competitive. I'm sick and tired of "his people" (see Maurizio Gherardini). And look at what happens when things don't work out (they stay on as "consultants" - further burdening the franchise with useless people on the payroll).

          I'm sure MG will be retained as the special assistant to the traveling secretary (see George Costanza). Get working on the Penske file Maurizio!
          JT has been with the Raps since 2002; Colangelo since 2006.

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          • #6
            I am also concerned about the BC contract situation. I am worried that BC will sabotage the rebuild in an effort to put a 40 win team back out on the court, which has little chance of reaching that 'next level'. It sucks that it has to be this way, but we are far more likely to win a title, if we win less than 30 games the next 2 years. Do you think BC can justify this as 'progress' when it comes time to pick up the option on his contract?

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            • #7
              Why are people worried? Did BC sabotage the rebuild when there were only months left before the board had to decide on his contract? We've already seen once already what BC will do to get extended, didn't we? If he was so worried about short-term progress, he would have used the TPE on just about anyone before his extension, as another warm body would have been better than nothing for our win-total.

              EDIT: I see this is exactly what Matt52 said in his much less wordy first sentence. :-p

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              • #8
                Quixotic wrote: View Post
                Why are people worried?
                Because of all of the poor decisions / mistakes we have seen BC make in the past.

                Quixotic wrote: View Post
                Did BC sabotage the rebuild when there were only months left before the board had to decide on his contract?
                No, not yet. That is not a guarantee that he won't make any questionable decisions between now and the draft.

                Quixotic wrote: View Post
                We've already seen once already what BC will do to get extended, didn't we? If he was so worried about short-term progress, he would have used the TPE on just about anyone before his extension, as another warm body would have been better than nothing for our win-total.
                If Colangelo thought using the TPE to acquire a veteran player, even one with an overpriced contract (Salmons , Biedrins, Iguodala type) would make it more likely that his contract would have been extended, I think he would have done it. If MLSE was intent on replacing Colangelo, the acquisition of one of those players would not likely been enough to save his job. Just because he hasn't done it yet, doesnt mean it might not still happen. We just watched a 22 win team for one season. Do you think Colangelo or MLSE would view his next 2 years as successful if they don't get back to a .500 record by 2013?
                Last edited by Donnie Brasco; Sun Jun 5, 2011, 08:46 PM.

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                • #9
                  Donnie Brasco wrote: View Post
                  I am also concerned about the BC contract situation. I am worried that BC will sabotage the rebuild in an effort to put a 40 win team back out on the court, which has little chance of reaching that 'next level'. It sucks that it has to be this way, but we are far more likely to win a title, if we win less than 30 games the next 2 years. Do you think BC can justify this as 'progress' when it comes time to pick up the option on his contract?
                  Nothing to be worried about, once that HARD CAP hits the league over the next few years you will see a huge change in the league. the hardcap really helped the NHL and im sure it will do the same for the NBA. just wait till the cap is lowered and teams are pretty much forced to trade their chris bosh's, josh smiths, or rudy gay's because of financial trouble. the league will balance out and the raps will be one of the many teams to profit from this change. just like the raps , the whole league will be revamped pretty soon

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                  • #10
                    Donnie Brasco wrote: View Post
                    Because of all of the poor decisions / mistakes we have seen BC make in the past.



                    No, not yet. That is not a guarantee that he won't make any questionable decisions between now and the draft.



                    If Colangelo thought using the TPE to acquire a veteran player, even one with an overpriced contract (Salmons , Biedrins, Iguodala type) would make it more likely that his contract would have been extended, I think he would have done it. If MLSE was intent on replacing Colangelo, the acquisition of one of those players would not likely been enough to save his job. Just because he hasn't done it yet, doesnt mean it might not still happen. We just watched a 22 win team for one season. Do you think Colangelo or MLSE would view his next 2 years as successful if they don't get back to a .500 record by 2013?



                    You are entitled to your opinion. I disagree. (Wordy? 5 lines, really? I think you can get Hooked on Phonics online now, check it out.)
                    I guess I am of the opinion that a promising team, much like the Thunder in 2008-09, except with a better record (say, 37-ish wins), would be enough to signal a bright future? If I was on the board and BC just filled the team up with veterans so we could have the appearance of a .500 team, I don't think he'd earn much sympathy.

                    But um, your last comment, I'm a bit confused. Why are you taking offense with me saying I just noticed Matt52 managed to say the same thing as me but with only one sentence? Did I offend you somehow simply by being the comment after yours?

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                    • #11
                      Quixotic wrote: View Post
                      I guess I am of the opinion that a promising team, much like the Thunder in 2008-09, except with a better record (say, 37-ish wins), would be enough to signal a bright future? If I was on the board and BC just filled the team up with veterans so we could have the appearance of a .500 team, I don't think he'd earn much sympathy.
                      Agreed. Although I would say that when comparing the 08 - 09 Thunder to the 11 Raps, the main difference would be that the Thunder had 2 potential superstars on the team. Hopefully the young players we draft this year and next will have good potential, and will begin to live up to it by the 13 season.

                      Quixotic wrote: View Post
                      But um, your last comment, I'm a bit confused. Why are you taking offense with me saying I just noticed Matt52 managed to say the same thing as me but with only one sentence? Did I offend you somehow simply by being the comment after yours?
                      Misunderstood. Sorry. I have edited my previous post.
                      Last edited by Donnie Brasco; Sun Jun 5, 2011, 08:53 PM.

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                      • #12
                        Donnie Brasco wrote: View Post
                        Agreed. Although I would say that when comparing the 08 - 09 Thunder to the 11 Raps, the main difference would be that the Thunder had 2 potential superstars on the team. Hopefully the young players we draft this year and next will have good potential, and will begin to live up to it by the 13 season.

                        Misunderstood. Sorry. I have edited my previous post.
                        Haha, I guess you thought I meant your five lines.

                        Oh, I definitely realize they had 2 burgeoning elite players that season; I'm just hoping that this draft and the next we somehow pluck 1 or 2 elite players as well. We're certainly likely to draft high next season.

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                        • #13
                          I'm pretty surprised there's so much optimism. Don't the names Jermaine O'Neal and Hedo Turkoglu ring any bells? BC's strengths are drafting athletic youth and finding good players that need a second chance for cheap. That's great for building up talent over a stretch of years while your team is in the cellar, and realistically until the Raps either find a franchise guy in the draft, trade for one, or sign one as a free agent, the team is going to struggle. And we all know the latter 2 are pretty unrealistic.

                          So if this year's pick doesn't contribute much right away and internal growth is stunted by a new system, does BC start to think about trading some of that young talent for one of the many overpriced vets other teams will be looking to dump? If they finish the year with another record that gives them something like the 9th pick in next year's draft and they don't land a star, does BC take a home run swing to save his job?

                          Rebuilds take time, not 2 years with an chance for a 3rd if things go to plan. With BC already talking about accelerating things, you have to be worried that he'll sacrifice long term success for a bit of short term mediocrity

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                          • #14
                            Nine New Faces wrote: View Post
                            I'm pretty surprised there's so much optimism. Don't the names Jermaine O'Neal and Hedo Turkoglu ring any bells? BC's strengths are drafting athletic youth and finding good players that need a second chance for cheap. That's great for building up talent over a stretch of years while your team is in the cellar, and realistically until the Raps either find a franchise guy in the draft, trade for one, or sign one as a free agent, the team is going to struggle. And we all know the latter 2 are pretty unrealistic.

                            So if this year's pick doesn't contribute much right away and internal growth is stunted by a new system, does BC start to think about trading some of that young talent for one of the many overpriced vets other teams will be looking to dump? If they finish the year with another record that gives them something like the 9th pick in next year's draft and they don't land a star, does BC take a home run swing to save his job?

                            Rebuilds take time, not 2 years with an chance for a 3rd if things go to plan. With BC already talking about accelerating things, you have to be worried that he'll sacrifice long term success for a bit of short term mediocrity
                            With two solid pieces already acquired through the draft in the last 2 years, the rebuild is underway. Solid draft picks this year and next and the rebuild is complete - that is a big IF though on the drafting.

                            The difference between now and O'Neal/Hedo is not trying to build around an All-Star who does not make others better and is not capable of leading.

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                            • #15
                              One of the problems I see with a four-year rebuild is the that the first draft pick's rookie contract is up. In this case DD and maybe Ed might be fed up with the constant losing and want to bolt. I know that is something that can not be planned for, but you have to show some improvement or at least signs that things are improving. If all that is accomplished is a bunch of draft picks, players start to think of greener pastures.

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