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  • #46
    Tim W. wrote: View Post
    Maybe. But I also never would have picked Bargnani or signed Turkoglu. I am in complete agreement with his last three lottery picks, though. I also thought Alabi was a good pick that might still payoff.
    I agree about Turk, but who else would you have picked instead of Bargs? Aldridge was so much like Bosh that it would have been Charlie Villanueva all over again. BC mentioned that he couldn't trade down because no one offered a good enough package. A year before that draft it was the "Gay sweepstakes" but for some reason his stock dropped. So really, it had to be Bargs...

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    • #47
      Does Jonas Valanciunas project to be the best all around C in this draft and f not for his buyout would he have gone higher?

      Ric Bucher (1:29 PM): If teams knew he was fully available, he would've been the No. 1 pick.

      Comment


      • #48
        I think there are a couple of good signs with picking Jonas.

        For starters, some people thought BC would try to make this team better quickly because of his two year contract. Some said, because of that, he needs a good year in his last year, meaning get in the playoffs. I don't think the Jonas-pick, if he doesn't come over this year, is suited for that goal. And if we have another lotterybound year, it's unlikely even a good draft next year and adding Jonas would immediately result in a playoff place. So, maybe BC is really trying to make this team better in the long run instead of making the team better now.

        I also agree with others on here that good centers are relatively sparse in the league. A good center is pivotal for having a good defense. From what I've read Jonas has good defensive skills. Regardless of what team (or position) AB will play on next year or the year after, the defense at the center position needs drastic improvement. I do consider this a change of culture, much more than the selection of a scoring guard like Kemba Walker. Not a change from European to (North) American, but a change to getting defensively capable players and a change from trying to get better now to getting really better, by drafting for the future; a change which already started midway last year.

        And for some posters: Europe is pretty big and very diverse; most Italians (or Dutch like me) probably can't even point out Lithuania on a map, have never been there, have never met someone from Lithuania and don't know anything about Lithuanian culture and cannot name a single famous person in Lithuania. It's not like it's one big melting pot.

        One last add: Jonathan Tjarks on realgm, who usually writes very interesting blogs, had a piece about drafting for mediocrity which might be applied to the Jonas-pick as well: http://basketball.realgm.com/blog/21...rity_Treadmill

        Comment


        • #49
          Marz wrote: View Post
          I agree about Turk, but who else would you have picked instead of Bargs? Aldridge was so much like Bosh that it would have been Charlie Villanueva all over again. BC mentioned that he couldn't trade down because no one offered a good enough package. A year before that draft it was the "Gay sweepstakes" but for some reason his stock dropped. So really, it had to be Bargs...
          Aldridge was the guy I hoped Colangelo would have picked. Yes, he did duplicate Bosh in many respects, but I just thought he would be a better player, and that's what was most important for me. I just thought Bargnani's lack of defense and rebounding would end up haunting him throughout his career. And it appears I've been right about that.

          A lot of people were talking about Gay, and while I certainly liked him better than Bargnani, I was hesitant about him because of questions about his desire.
          Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
          Follow me on Twitter.

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          • #50
            TheR3dMenace wrote: View Post
            This shit angers me to no end.... especially because it is a commonly held belief in raptorland too, where hockey culture and Don Cherry-esque xenophobia still rears its ugly head. Say what you want about his team-building skills, but BC certainly has an eye for talent and an almost flawless draft history:

            Michael Finley
            Steve Nash
            Stephen Jackson
            Shawn Marion
            Amare Stoudemire
            Luol Deng
            Nate Robinson
            Marcin Gortat
            Andrea Bargnani
            Roy Hibbert
            DeMar DeRozan
            Ed Davis
            Roy Hibbert wasn't his pick but I agree.

            Comment


            • #51
              Soft Euro wrote: View Post
              I think there are a couple of good signs with picking Jonas.

              For starters, some people thought BC would try to make this team better quickly because of his two year contract. Some said, because of that, he needs a good year in his last year, meaning get in the playoffs. I don't think the Jonas-pick, if he doesn't come over this year, is suited for that goal. And if we have another lotterybound year, it's unlikely even a good draft next year and adding Jonas would immediately result in a playoff place. So, maybe BC is really trying to make this team better in the long run instead of making the team better now.

              I also agree with others on here that good centers are relatively sparse in the league. A good center is pivotal for having a good defense. From what I've read Jonas has good defensive skills. Regardless of what team (or position) AB will play on next year or the year after, the defense at the center position needs drastic improvement. I do consider this a change of culture, much more than the selection of a scoring guard like Kemba Walker. Not a change from European to (North) American, but a change to getting defensively capable players and a change from trying to get better now to getting really better, by drafting for the future; a change which already started midway last year.

              And for some posters: Europe is pretty big and very diverse; most Italians (or Dutch like me) probably can't even point out Lithuania on a map, have never been there, have never met someone from Lithuania and don't know anything about Lithuanian culture and cannot name a single famous person in Lithuania. It's not like it's one big melting pot.

              One last add: Jonathan Tjarks on realgm, who usually writes very interesting blogs, had a piece about drafting for mediocrity which might be applied to the Jonas-pick as well: http://basketball.realgm.com/blog/21...rity_Treadmill
              Welcome, Soft Euro. Best new name in a long time.

              :claps:
              -Tim W.

              Comment


              • #52
                Ric Bucher just said Jonas Valanciunas would have been #1 pick but the buyout:

                http://raptorsrepublic.tumblr.com/po...ould-be-1-pick

                Comment


                • #53
                  As people probably know from my posts, I don't think bargs providing a lot of production vs. what he gets paid. However, if you go back and look at that draft class who do you take ahead of him? Aldridge was a definite possibility, but it looks like more and more Roy's knees are going to be finished sooner rather than later. After that who would you like to have?

                  Rudy Gay @ 8
                  J.J. Redick @ 11
                  Rajon Rondo @ 21

                  Obiviously the hindsight pick is Rondo, but there's no way you can take him w/ the #1 overall. After that it becomes a questions of whose better, Bargs, Aldridge, Gay, or Roy?

                  POB got picked @ 9. That's how bad this draft was.

                  I'd swap Aldridge for Bargs, but w/ gay I'd be on the fence about it. Considering the Blazers are asking Roy to retire I'd doubt that'd be a good trade to make. The more I look at that draft class the more I blame bargs and coangelo less and the basketball gods more. Maybe Big Val will be our big karma payback?
                  "They're going to have to rename the whole conference after us: Toronto Raptors 2014-2015 Northern Conference Champions" ~ ezzbee Dec. 2014

                  "I guess I got a little carried away there" ~ ezzbee Apr. 2015

                  "We only have one rule on this team. What is that rule? E.L.E. That's right's, E.L.E, and what does E.L.E. stand for? EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY. Right there up on the wall, because this isn't just a basketball team, this is a lifestyle. ~ Jackie Moon

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Really like the Dino Nation Blog's analysis of the draft pick:

                    Another thing that bothers me is the lack of respect for the overall knowledge of this fanbase. I heard the example used of how fans booed the pick of Damon Stoudamire and the crowd at Skydome chanting for Ed O'Bannon. The fan base is far more educated from those days and the amount of access they have to information and the ability to watch guys play in the NCAA. Back in the days of mighty mouse there were not many that got to see him play out at Arizona. But times have changed and this fan base is far more educated and have much stronger opinions with that knowledge behind them.

                    While some praise Colangelo for his guts in making this pick. I am not one of them. Ultimately the Raptors can try and avoid the elephant in the room all they like but it is still there. For the Raptors ultimately to be successful they need to be able to make this an attractive destination for Americans to come here and after tonight maybe finally a Canadian or two. That is the problem this franchise has faced for 16 years. Colangelo I give credit for trying his Euro experiment the first time around. It was a good attempt to try and avoid the issue. But it ultimately failed and to head down that same path again is just not wise in my view. It would be nice to think that the Raptors could have a united nations type approach and be successful but the reality is as it has been proven over the past few years it doesn't work.

                    I stress again that the Raptors are walking a very thin line with their fans and to totally ignore what they feel is wrong. The only way it is right is if you win. Colangelo kept mentioning patience but if he hasn't noticed patience has run out here. He has a shorter term contract to remind him of that fact. If you expect this fan base to have patience, while you ignore their displeasure that is a recipe for disaster. I think everyone can agree that attendance and overall interest in the Raptors has declined. This is not a pick that will do anything to change that in the short term. If you lose fans in a town where you are always fighting against the monster down the hall that is the Maple Leafs that is never a wise idea.

                    Try marketing your draft pick that is not playing for your team coming off a certain labour stoppage and tell me how that works out for you. Now if you had a player that people wanted to see in a Kemba Walker or a Brandon Knight you are in a better spot. Ultimately I feel sorry for Jonas because it is not his fault. But he is walking into a hornet's nest and he has done nothing to deserve that. But Bryan Colangelo and Andrea Bargnani have. Along with a checkered past that Bryan Colangelo chooses to ignore dating back before he came here. But this fan base has endured it all and you need to understand that as well.
                    Lot's more there worth reading:
                    http://dinonationblog.blogspot.com/2...maybe-not.html

                    I think this encapsulates fans' frustrations well. Even if you are a Junas fan I think it helps clarify what the other side feels.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      NBADraft.net

                      Source: NBAdraft.net

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        ezz_bee wrote: View Post
                        As people probably know from my posts, I don't think bargs providing a lot of production vs. what he gets paid. However, if you go back and look at that draft class who do you take ahead of him? Aldridge was a definite possibility, but it looks like more and more Roy's knees are going to be finished sooner rather than later. After that who would you like to have?

                        Rudy Gay @ 8
                        J.J. Redick @ 11
                        Rajon Rondo @ 21

                        Obiviously the hindsight pick is Rondo, but there's no way you can take him w/ the #1 overall. After that it becomes a questions of whose better, Bargs, Aldridge, Gay, or Roy?

                        POB got picked @ 9. That's how bad this draft was.

                        I'd swap Aldridge for Bargs, but w/ gay I'd be on the fence about it. Considering the Blazers are asking Roy to retire I'd doubt that'd be a good trade to make. The more I look at that draft class the more I blame bargs and coangelo less and the basketball gods more. Maybe Big Val will be our big karma payback?
                        Roy might be getting back to his old self. That great game ending performance that tied up the Portland / Dallas series. Some injuries really do take 2 years to heal.
                        -Tim W.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          blackjitsu wrote: View Post
                          Really like the Dino Nation Blog's analysis of the draft pick:



                          Lot's more there worth reading:
                          http://dinonationblog.blogspot.com/2...maybe-not.html

                          I think this encapsulates fans' frustrations well. Even if you are a Junas fan I think it helps clarify what the other side feels.
                          Unfortunately the other side is based on prejudices that are unwarranted.

                          Bargnani and JV's game are like oil and water.

                          Everything Raptors' fans want in their players they are getting, and more, from Jonas.

                          The idea of drafting an American to make this an attractive place for other Americans is ridiculous. Who was LBJ's best friend on the Cavs for 7 years: Illguaskas. Who were 2 parts of the big three in SA: Parker and Manu (not European I know). Who was the sidekick in LAL: Gasol. I could go on and on but what is the point?

                          These stereotypes are ridiculous once gums stop flapping and rational thoughts take over.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            bloodyhandedgod wrote: View Post
                            Roy might be getting back to his old self. That great game ending performance that tied up the Portland / Dallas series. Some injuries really do take 2 years to heal.
                            Take it from a guy who knows. ROy's knees aren't something that will simply heal with time, unfortunately. I'm watching his progress very closely because we suffer from VERY similar ailments.

                            Love your sig, by the way. Wouldn't it have been awesome if Colangelo had picked up a second round pick to take him?
                            Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
                            Follow me on Twitter.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Tim W. wrote: View Post
                              Take it from a guy who knows. ROy's knees aren't something that will simply heal with time, unfortunately. I'm watching his progress very closely because we suffer from VERY similar ailments.

                              Love your sig, by the way. Wouldn't it have been awesome if Colangelo had picked up a second round pick to take him?
                              I smile every time I say ... Chukwudiebere Maduabum
                              -Tim W.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                I'm glad so many are warming to the idea of Jonas Valanciunas drafted at #5. By the way if Casey wants to use the 1-3-1 with Toronto JV will be able to adapt to it quite well while Bargnani on the other hand may have a tougher time. Also a benefit of this defense would be that Calderone's porous ball defense may be minimized at strategic points in the game. Not only that but knowing that there is a player on the bench like JV who executes what the coach asks of him will force Bargnani to up his defensive game or he will lose minutes. Keep in mind that Bargnani is still the center...From what I have read or seen no one has made Bargnani the starting power forward. If anyone should be concerned it's Bargnani...

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