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  • Tim W.
    replied
    RaptorsFan4Life wrote: View Post
    Good article but I don't agree with him saying Jonas V is better than Bismack. Bismack iis like a more physically gifted version of Jonas V with a stronger motor. (IMO)
    And a lot less touch around the basket. That's big. Amir Johnson can shoot 60% because he's got a good touch around the basket, whereas Reggie Evans struggles to shoot 40%. Biyombo certainly intrigued me, and I would have had not problem with the Raptors drafting him, but the consensus seems to be that Valanciunas simply has more potential. I guess we'll have to wait to see if that's true.

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  • RaptorsFan4Life
    replied
    Good article but I don't agree with him saying Jonas V is better than Bismack. Bismack iis like a more physically gifted version of Jonas V with a stronger motor. (IMO)
    Last edited by RaptorsFan4Life; Sat Jun 25, 2011, 05:09 AM.

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  • dzoni71
    replied
    charlz wrote: View Post
    and yes I know kobe did not play in NCAA - he is a freakish exception.
    But you do know that LBJ, KG, Dwight Howard, Josh Smith, Amare, Tyson Chandler all have ZERO NCAA games under their belt?

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  • RaptorsFan4Life
    replied
    charlz wrote: View Post
    lets not forget adam morrison and countless others - soon to add the Jimmer to that list once they see him try to guard

    The point is this: the hit ratio is much better with proven NCAA talent. Hoffa sweetness Marcus Fizer Diogu are all tweeners and none of the good GM's would touch them. Also we are talking about a number 5 pick some of those guys mentioned are not even lottery players....

    Elite teams have at most 1 or 2 NON-NCAA proven guys in their 8 man rotation. Its a fact the Bulls lakers Mavs OKC portland Boston Miami on and on....

    Champions Detroit Chicago Spurs Miami Lakers ... it is a fact (and yes I know kobe did not play in NCAA - he is a freakish exception).

    Leave a comment:


  • Tim W.
    replied
    Hell, just read this...
    http://www.wearingfilm.com/picketfen...kies-and-amir/

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  • Tim W.
    replied
    GarbageTime wrote: View Post
    Outside of the people who don't like the pick for a myraid of different reasons, I'm not so sure people dislike him because he's European, but dislike that BC drafted another European. And thats a distinction that may need to be made here. Now are they taking their anger out on JV, sure. But EVERYONE knew (or should have known) that would happen if BC took Val, Vesley or Motiejunas. BC taking JV was lighting a match in a dynamite factory. Right or wrong the results shouldn't be a suprise.

    Raptors history with drafting Euro bigs has not been positive one. And while other teams have had success, the Raps have not. Almost any player in any draft is a risk, but I think its pretty clear this isn't the type of risk a large segment of the Raptors fan base (knowledgeable or not) wanted the organization to take.
    The Raptors have drafted 2 European bigs in the first round. Bargnani and Radojevic. Hard to say it's a history.

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  • Tim W.
    replied
    charlz wrote: View Post
    on the contrary I am almost always right - I have been following and posting about the raps since day 1 when I was a wee lad and barely knew which side of the monitor was viewable.
    Man are you young. That does explain your penchant for being wrong, though.

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  • GarbageTime
    replied
    Tim W. wrote: View Post
    I think that some of the most vocal criticism of the pick ARE from people who simply don't like him because he's European, and it's painted most critics of the pick the same way. I agree it's unfair.

    My feeling, though, is if you aren't a fan who's very knowledgeable, then why the hell do you think you know better than the guy running the team with two Executive of the Year awards? I think what's wrong is that uninformed people don't seem to understand they don't know anything. And apparently aren't afraid of looking stupid.

    That's not to say you can't have legitimate concerns about drafting him, but most of the people that seem to HATE the pick simply have no idea what they're talking about, and it's unfortunate that they believe they need to voice their opinion. Generally if I'm not informed about something, I don't spout off about it pretending like I do.

    (Keep in mind, this is not directed at you.)
    Outside of the people who don't like the pick for a myraid of different reasons, I'm not so sure people dislike him because he's European, but dislike that BC drafted another European. And thats a distinction that may need to be made here. Now are they taking their anger out on JV, sure. But EVERYONE knew (or should have known) that would happen if BC took Val, Vesley or Motiejunas. BC taking JV was lighting a match in a dynamite factory. Right or wrong the results shouldn't be a suprise.

    Raptors history with drafting Euro bigs has not been positive one. And while other teams have had success, the Raps have not. Almost any player in any draft is a risk, but I think its pretty clear this isn't the type of risk a large segment of the Raptors fan base (knowledgeable or not) wanted the organization to take.

    Leave a comment:


  • charlz
    replied
    Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Like Eddie Griffin? Michael Bradley? Mike Sweetney? Rafael Araujo? Sean May? SHeldon Williams? Ike Diogu? Charlie V? Hakim Warrick? Tyrus Thomas? Hilton Armstrong? Patrick O'Bryant? Boone? Sean Wiliiams? Brandan WRight? Joe Alexander? Thabeet? JOrdan Hill? Aldrich? Udoh?

    That is not even paying attention to guards or wings.
    lets not forget adam morrison and countless others - soon to add the Jimmer to that list once they see him try to guard

    The point is this: the hit ratio is much better with proven NCAA talent. Hoffa sweetness Marcus Fizer Diogu are all tweeners and none of the good GM's would touch them. Also we are talking about a number 5 pick some of those guys mentioned are not even lottery players....

    Elite teams have at most 1 or 2 NON-NCAA proven guys in their 8 man rotation. Its a fact the Bulls lakers Mavs OKC portland Boston Miami on and on....

    Champions Detroit Chicago Spurs Miami Lakers ... it is a fact (and yes I know kobe did not play in NCAA - he is a freakish exception).

    Leave a comment:


  • mcHAPPY
    replied
    charlz wrote: View Post


    book mark my words all you lovers of Yi Darko and Nikoloz Tskitishvili - see you in 3-5 years ... have your apologies ready. All together now " ONLY DRAFT NCAA PROVEN TALENT "
    Like Eddie Griffin? Michael Bradley? Mike Sweetney? Rafael Araujo? Sean May? SHeldon Williams? Ike Diogu? Charlie V? Hakim Warrick? Tyrus Thomas? Hilton Armstrong? Patrick O'Bryant? Boone? Sean Wiliiams? Brandan WRight? Joe Alexander? Thabeet? JOrdan Hill? Aldrich? Udoh?

    That is not even paying attention to guards or wings.

    Leave a comment:


  • Captain Haddock
    replied
    heinz57 wrote: View Post
    its not even the first name... its the last name that strikes my "uncontrollable giggle" nerve
    Even more than Boniface N'Dong?

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  • mcHAPPY
    replied
    slaw wrote: View Post
    Yes, anyone who isn't crazy about this pick just is full of unwarranted prejudice. Why must someone who disagrees with you have the worst of motives and characteristics attributed to them? You have no skepticism at all about a 7'0, 19-year old who weighs 230pounds, who you've never watched play a full game, and who is years away from contributing? None at all? Totally sold that he's a franchise centre? And if I'm filled with even a little skepticism I'm a bigot? Come on. The Raptors have been burned time and time again drafting int'l bigs and now they've... drafted an int'l big. It's somehow an abnormal reaction for people to go, 'here we go again'? I don't think it is.

    On the second point, let's wait until he is over and actually playing in NBA games before we unequivocally state what it is that he is bringing to Toronto.
    Excuse me?

    Did you read the comment to which I replied? Disagreeing with me is hardly an issue - people do it frequently and I am happy to exchange views. Your questioning of my comment after watching the Euro-centric bashing today is ridiculous.

    Actually, no you are not a bigot because your criticisms are basketball based - lack of size, years away from contributing - and are valid.

    What I would suggest you do is look through the posts today and see how many people are commenting, directly or indirectly, on nothing more than his birthplace, upbringing, and skin colour. The guy is about as different from Bargnani as one can get yet he is getting crucified before ever showing up here - the only similarity is the high percentage from the charity stripe.

    Is he a franchise centre? I don't know but there are plenty of people with more experience and expertise than myself (outside the Raptors organization) who seem to think so. Many have claimed he could be the top player from this draft when it is all said and done.

    As for the getting burned on international bigs, here is the draft history of the Raps:
    http://www.basketball-reference.com/...TOR/draft.html

    Getting burned on international bigs? You call drafting Bargnani getting burned? While he was #1 he is still the second best in the top 5 and top 5 of the entire draft that year - hardly a burn despite his flaws. You call drafting Bavcic and Slokar busts at 56 and 58? Seriously - 56 and 58? Araujo was a bust, no doubt, and also picked by one of the worst GM's ever, yet managed to return Kris Humphries in a subsequent trade by BC. Ukic was not an NBA player but he filled a role as a third stringer and returned value in a trade by BC.

    So with those international draft picks out of the way, besides Araujo, we are left with one international draft pick that truly was a bust and that was in 1999. Personally, the Araujo fiasco that was Babcock should be deleted from all Raptors fans.

    Now what about our American draft picks - specifically bigs. Camby? 2 years and gone. Bradley? Up there with Kapano in horrible contracts. Charlie V? UConn flavoured Bargnani. Davis? Awesome.

    The draft is a crap shoot. Remember how highly all these guys are thought of today and look at where draft picks of 1 and 2 years ago are today in people's perceptions. Where they are from should be little more than a footnote. Many fans are making it the whole story and that is the problem.

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  • charlz
    replied


    book mark my words all you lovers of Yi Darko and Nikoloz Tskitishvili - see you in 3-5 years ... have your apologies ready. All together now " ONLY DRAFT NCAA PROVEN TALENT "

    Leave a comment:


  • charlz
    replied
    Tim W. wrote: View Post
    You're also likely wrong because of the fact that Valanciunas was the consensus best player available (by most respected basketball people), and, well, because you usually seem to be.
    on the contrary I am almost always right - I have been following and posting about the raps since day 1 when I was a wee lad and barely knew which side of the monitor was viewable.

    Leave a comment:


  • Tim W.
    replied
    grindhouse wrote: View Post
    kahn was not riped for drafting rubio? we don't get a pass on this one
    As has already mentioned, he was ripped for drafting two PGs right after the other. And, at this point, Rubio is not the bad pick. Flynn is, and he was a good NCAA player many felt would make an immediate impact. If Rubio ends up being the 2nd or 3rd best player in his draft, then I highly doubt anyone is going to whine about how it took him two years to make it over to the NBA. And the T-Wolves will be a better team for the long term.

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