Post-Draft Reaction

[Tim W.]

Tim, if there is no season, then this first point is moot.. but drafting a player that won't be around for a year cannot be a good thing. I'm betting you won't find a single GM in the NBA who is thinking to himself "Gee, I sure wish the guy I just drafted with a top 5 pick, could be developed and trained by someone else for the next year or so."

Well, I do know there were quite a number of teams, including the Spurs, who wanted to trade up to take the guy even though they knew he wouldn't be able to play next year. I think that says a lot about what other GMs think about the pick.

In 2-3 years, when frustrations with JV *really* begin those who loved this pick will very likely use that same excuse: That other teams tried to trade up for him, or that some journalists thought he was the steal of the draft -- therefore you couldn't really blame BC.

Whoa. Are you already writing off his career? Wouldn't that be just as guilty of doing what you claim we are doing?

No one knows how ANY player will perform in the NBA. You just be as informed as you can and hope for the best.

I'll blame BC because I have watched the film and I see a player that can be best described as Shawn Bradley with slightly more athleticism. The only fair excuse I can think of is that everyone saw what Chandler was able to do during the playoffs and people fell in love with an "idea". Do you understand how hard it is for a raw, skinny big man with no offensive skills to become that rugged center that every team wants? People are making comparisons to Joakim Noah. Do you realize how bad Joakim Noah was in his rookie and sophomore years? He was 22 when he was drafted. JV is 19. I'm thinking of a best case scenario where JV is an effective starter by 2014, and I doubt he will ever average 35 minutes per game in the NBA.

2014 is 3 years from now.

Shawn Bradley with slightly more athleticism? Really? And you know Bradley didn't fail to become the player some envisioned because he lacked the physical skills to play at a high level. It was because he lacked the mental skills. You stick Amir Johnson's head on Shawn Bradley's body and you've got yourself an All-Star. And Valanciunas has FAR more in common with Amir Johnson, including his desire and hustle, than Shawn Bradley. And Valanciunas is 3 inches taller and 5 years younger.

Will it take a few years for him to really hit his stride? But I'm pretty sure the Raptors aren't going to be a threat to make the Finals before 2014, so I really don't understand what your point is. The Raptors are a young team and can afford to wait. DeRozan, Davis, Amir, Bayless, James Johnson and even Alabi are all under the age of 25. 2014 is probably when this team will just be hitting it's stride and really competing, so if that's when Valanciunas starts to become an effective starter, then that's actually great timing.

Besides, Valanciunas is the type of player that can be effective even before he's fully developed, because he hustles and works hard. What I find funny about all the reaction is that he's exactly the type of player that Raptor fans love.

Do you know "opportunity cost" is?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportunity_cost

This pick doesn't just cost whatever is spent on JV. Opportunity cost measure that against foregoing the best alternative. If you spend taxes on a prison that you could have spent on a school, that is the opportunity cost.

Right now, the measure of this pick is whatever another player could have given you this season, plus the seasons that it'll take for JV to become an effective starter. And that's assuming he does, which is a pretty big presumption. I'm watching the same videos that people have talked about and I see a bunch of pick and rolls and dump off passes. WTF.

It's all nice to say "one step backward and two steps forward", but I would argue that the Raptors are already standing against a cliff. Let's build a championship team, fine, but it's still a business and good luck selling the fans on Calderon and Bargnani for another season. The average Joe is likely to look at that and say "They were terrible last year. What's changed?". So far, nothing. And with the contracts on the payroll, it's just going to be rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic for awhile as far as trades go.

Btw, to all you who keep basing your arguments on the fact that he's a Euro -- shame on you. There is no reason for that. This is a bad pick because it was a bad pick. Period. Not because of where he was born.

/rant

What the average Joe says about next year doesn't really matter all that much, especially if it leads to something really good down the road.

And if the pick was a bad pick, it was a bad pick, but you could say the same if it was Brandon Knight, Kemba Walker or Biyombo, all of whom have just as much chance of doing very little in the NBA. You talk as if Valanciunas is really that much more of a gamble than the other options and that's simply not true. I had reservations about every player, including Valanciunas. I personally think Knight is the biggest gamble, because if he can't play the point, which I question whether he can, he's basically just a shorter Barbosa. At best.

I just don't understand how you can say make that argument when there wasn't one single sure thing who was an option. And if the pick is successful, then it has the chance to have a far more positive effect on the franchise than anyone else could have.

[mcHAPPY]

Tim, if there is no season, then this first point is moot.. but drafting a player that won't be around for a year cannot be a good thing. I'm betting you won't find a single GM in the NBA who is thinking to himself "Gee, I sure wish the guy I just drafted with a top 5 pick, could be developed and trained by someone else for the next year or so."

If you want to argue based on what other teams did, then you have me. In 2-3 years, when frustrations with JV *really* begin those who loved this pick will very likely use that same excuse: That other teams tried to trade up for him, or that some journalists thought he was the steal of the draft -- therefore you couldn't really blame BC.

I'll blame BC because I have watched the film and I see a player that can be best described as Shawn Bradley with slightly more athleticism. The only fair excuse I can think of is that everyone saw what Chandler was able to do during the playoffs and people fell in love with an "idea". Do you understand how hard it is for a raw, skinny big man with no offensive skills to become that rugged center that every team wants? People are making comparisons to Joakim Noah. Do you realize how bad Joakim Noah was in his rookie and sophomore years? He was 22 when he was drafted. JV is 19. I'm thinking of a best case scenario where JV is an effective starter by 2014, and I doubt he will ever average 35 minutes per game in the NBA.

2014 is 3 years from now. Do you know "opportunity cost" is?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportunity_cost

This pick doesn't just cost whatever is spent on JV. Opportunity cost measure that against foregoing the best alternative. If you spend taxes on a prison that you could have spent on a school, that is the opportunity cost.

Right now, the measure of this pick is whatever another player could have given you this season, plus the seasons that it'll take for JV to become an effective starter. And that's assuming he does, which is a pretty big presumption. I'm watching the same videos that people have talked about and I see a bunch of pick and rolls and dump off passes. WTF.

It's all nice to say "one step backward and two steps forward", but I would argue that the Raptors are already standing against a cliff. Let's build a championship team, fine, but it's still a business and good luck selling the fans on Calderon and Bargnani for another season. The average Joe is likely to look at that and say "They were terrible last year. What's changed?". So far, nothing. And with the contracts on the payroll, it's just going to be rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic for awhile as far as trades go.

Btw, to all you who keep basing your arguments on the fact that he's a Euro -- shame on you. There is no reason for that. This is a bad pick because it was a bad pick. Period. Not because of where he was born.

/rant

So in 3 years, he'll be 22, DD and ED 24/25, Amir and JJ 27, Bayless could be 25/26, next year draft pick 22-24. If Bargnani stays he'd be 28.

It sounds to me like we'll have a young team hitting their prime together.

I will enjoy watching the team develop over those three seasons.

[Balls of Steel]

Tim, if there is no season, then this first point is moot.. but drafting a player that won't be around for a year cannot be a good thing. I'm betting you won't find a single GM in the NBA who is thinking to himself "Gee, I sure wish the guy I just drafted with a top 5 pick, could be developed and trained by someone else for the next year or so."

If you want to argue based on what other teams did, then you have me. In 2-3 years, when frustrations with JV *really* begin those who loved this pick will very likely use that same excuse: That other teams tried to trade up for him, or that some journalists thought he was the steal of the draft -- therefore you couldn't really blame BC.

I'll blame BC because I have watched the film and I see a player that can be best described as Shawn Bradley with slightly more athleticism. The only fair excuse I can think of is that everyone saw what Chandler was able to do during the playoffs and people fell in love with an "idea". Do you understand how hard it is for a raw, skinny big man with no offensive skills to become that rugged center that every team wants? People are making comparisons to Joakim Noah. Do you realize how bad Joakim Noah was in his rookie and sophomore years? He was 22 when he was drafted. JV is 19. I'm thinking of a best case scenario where JV is an effective starter by 2014, and I doubt he will ever average 35 minutes per game in the NBA.

2014 is 3 years from now. Do you know "opportunity cost" is?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportunity_cost

This pick doesn't just cost whatever is spent on JV. Opportunity cost measure that against foregoing the best alternative. If you spend taxes on a prison that you could have spent on a school, that is the opportunity cost.

Right now, the measure of this pick is whatever another player could have given you this season, plus the seasons that it'll take for JV to become an effective starter. And that's assuming he does, which is a pretty big presumption. I'm watching the same videos that people have talked about and I see a bunch of pick and rolls and dump off passes. WTF.

It's all nice to say "one step backward and two steps forward", but I would argue that the Raptors are already standing against a cliff. Let's build a championship team, fine, but it's still a business and good luck selling the fans on Calderon and Bargnani for another season. The average Joe is likely to look at that and say "They were terrible last year. What's changed?". So far, nothing. And with the contracts on the payroll, it's just going to be rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic for awhile as far as trades go.

Btw, to all you who keep basing your arguments on the fact that he's a Euro -- shame on you. There is no reason for that. This is a bad pick because it was a bad pick. Period. Not because of where he was born.

/rant

If it's any worth, the players and owners are billions apart on an agreement. The work stoppage is imminent. The NFL is a richer league and is in a similar situation work-wise. What is your response when there is an actual work stoppage and is resolved by the time JV comes here? Oh, right, the other crux of your other argument is that he's skinny and will have a rough first two years in the NBA. Ding. Ding. Ding. He wasn't picked because of his immediate contribution. He's picked because his potential is off the charts as a legitimate 7-foot franchise centre.

You remind of someone who was cheering for Ed O'Bannon back in the day. Kemba is going to disappoint you in Charlotte for many years to come. However, I respect you for your opinion, I just happen to disagree with it. Cheers.

[Maleko]

ebrian, saying this was a bad pick simply because it was a bad pick, is opinion. Also one that I do not agree with.

Let's build a championship team, fine, but it's still a business and good luck selling the fans on Calderon and Bargnani for another season

Whether Bargnani or Calderon are still around is yet to be seen, and has little bearing on the pick. Had Kemba been picked for example, it put Bayless on the trade front as much or more than Calderon, so again the pick would have little bearing on them.

This pick doesn't just cost whatever is spent on JV. Opportunity cost measure that against foregoing the best alternative. If you spend taxes on a prison that you could have spent on a school, that is the opportunity cost.

And by picking a player that is better now, but not better (than JV) later, that is an opportunity cost. It depends upon which angle you want to look at it from, being snide at Tim with links to definitions is petty.

The only fair excuse I can think of is that everyone saw what Chandler was able to do during the playoffs and people fell in love with an "idea".

Actually many on here have been talking about him for some time, since November in some cases (see Raul). Sure there are bandwagon jumpers, as there are with Knight, Kemba, Leonard, and 100% Biyombo (me included there), but personally I have seen discussion on him for many months, not just since the finals. Perhaps that is when you tuned into the discussion.

Yes you have your opinion, and Tim and others have theirs (add note: you do appear to be in the minority on your opinion). Debate and discussion is good, but it seems to be degrading a little into just being snippy and condescending.

[ebrian]

And if you're complaining that the Raptors might have to wait a year for him, I think that's a lousy argument. Or maybe you think San Antonio should have drafted Armon Gilliam instead of David Robinson because they would have had to have waited two years? I know, it's an extreme example, but the simple fact is that Valanciunas was widely considered to be the best player available, unlike Walker who lasted until 9, and the Raptors weren't going to be competing for a Championship anytime soon, anyway, so why not take the player who is expected to give you the best long term success?

Tim, if there is no season, then this first point is moot.. but drafting a player that won't be around for a year cannot be a good thing. I'm betting you won't find a single GM in the NBA who is thinking to himself "Gee, I sure wish the guy I just drafted with a top 5 pick, could be developed and trained by someone else for the next year or so."

If you want to argue based on what other teams did, then you have me. In 2-3 years, when frustrations with JV *really* begin those who loved this pick will very likely use that same excuse: That other teams tried to trade up for him, or that some journalists thought he was the steal of the draft -- therefore you couldn't really blame BC.

I'll blame BC because I have watched the film and I see a player that can be best described as Shawn Bradley with slightly more athleticism. The only fair excuse I can think of is that everyone saw what Chandler was able to do during the playoffs and people fell in love with an "idea". Do you understand how hard it is for a raw, skinny big man with no offensive skills to become that rugged center that every team wants? People are making comparisons to Joakim Noah. Do you realize how bad Joakim Noah was in his rookie and sophomore years? He was 22 when he was drafted. JV is 19. I'm thinking of a best case scenario where JV is an effective starter by 2014, and I doubt he will ever average 35 minutes per game in the NBA.

2014 is 3 years from now. Do you know "opportunity cost" is?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportunity_cost

This pick doesn't just cost whatever is spent on JV. Opportunity cost measure that against foregoing the best alternative. If you spend taxes on a prison that you could have spent on a school, that is the opportunity cost.

Right now, the measure of this pick is whatever another player could have given you this season, plus the seasons that it'll take for JV to become an effective starter. And that's assuming he does, which is a pretty big presumption. I'm watching the same videos that people have talked about and I see a bunch of pick and rolls and dump off passes. WTF.

It's all nice to say "one step backward and two steps forward", but I would argue that the Raptors are already standing against a cliff. Let's build a championship team, fine, but it's still a business and good luck selling the fans on Calderon and Bargnani for another season. The average Joe is likely to look at that and say "They were terrible last year. What's changed?". So far, nothing. And with the contracts on the payroll, it's just going to be rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic for awhile as far as trades go.

Btw, to all you who keep basing your arguments on the fact that he's a Euro -- shame on you. There is no reason for that. This is a bad pick because it was a bad pick. Period. Not because of where he was born.

/rant

[Raps4Ever]

To all the people who thinks this pick has us back 3 to4 years! I ask this question..what player would of prevented this? Knight will not be a good player next year, he is years away as well but Val will be the true rebounding rim protecting center we have never had. BC well done! We are lucky to have you!!!

[charlz]

I have decided that there is only one way to paint a positive picture on this draft and the absolutely horrible blunder that BC has, once again, made. Here it is, my new mantra:

Draft? What draft? It never happened. We had no draft picks this year, hence there is no new player on the roster. Simple as that.

LMFWAO - haha

[Tim W.]

Biyombo is going to become the next Hasheem Thabeet!

Biyombo is far more fluid an athlete than Thabeet.

[white men can't jump]

I'm not upset that we took JV over Kawhi. I'm just upset about Kawhi because he slid so much, and it was the Spurs who finally nabbed him. The Spurs quietly had another very solid draft. Those....competent bastards. Kawhi's ceiling may not be super high (who knows?) but the Spurs wouldn't have given up Hill if they didn't feel they had a good read on his likelihood of impacting the game how they want. Meanwhile, they also drafted Cory Joseph, who can now develop into Hill's role, essentially, which is probably the right kind of guy/role for him to target. Again...competent bastards...

[bloodyhandedgod]

I want a trade soon. Need one. This team has to look different. Still looks the same. Need something.

[Bouncepass]

For all those who thought and still think that someone like Kawhi Leonard would be a better pick than JV, consider this. How many nanoseconds would it take San Antonio to say "yes" if Colangelo now offered JV for Leonard? Or what about Indiana, who just traded Leonard for George Hill? Do you think Colangelo would have any trouble trading JV for George Hill? People need to give their head a shake and realize that this pick wasn't just some Euro reach by Colangelo. JV is highly regarded across the NBA. Oh, and anyone who thinks that Brandon Knight or Kemba Walker would have a huge impact in their first season, go back and see how much impact players like Rondo, Westbrook, Wall, etc. had in their first year. Each of those players are arguably much higher in potential than any of the point guards that were available this year.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

Why isn't there an option for "Happy but would of preferred another player" option? I don't mine Jonas V but I wanted Bismack.

Biyombo is going to become the next Hasheem Thabeet!

[RaptorsFan4Life]

Brian talking to McCowan on the Fan590 admitted that if Jonas was taken by Cleveland then he would have taken Biyombo. So Brian was never going to get Walker or Knight.

Source

*Goes into a rage* I hate you BC. Bismack > Jonas.

I hate Cavs even more now.

[Tim W.]

Biyombo is BC's gift to Jordan after the Chandler fiasco. Biyombo will be a super bust in a team that cannot score. Good luck Charlotte! Hey, you may want to read this:

http://raptorsrepublic.com/forums/sh...Michael-Jordan

Just as it's foolish to call Valanciunas a bad pick despite not seeing him, I think it's foolish to call Biyombo a bust without watching more of him.

[planetmars]

Brian talking to McCowan on the Fan590 admitted that if Jonas was taken by Cleveland then he would have taken Biyombo. So Brian was never going to get Walker or Knight.

Source