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2012 Draft Thursday, June 28th: Raptors select Terence Ross

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  • NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    thing is does he have franchise player or all star potential?
    So, what are you saying? That if TO can't find a franchise player or all-star with the 8th pick, they should what? Trade it? Or are there a pile of other players at the 8th spot or lower, with franchise or all-star potential that TO could pick up as opposed to Lamb?


    • Puffer wrote: View Post
      So, what are you saying? That if TO can't find a franchise player or all-star with the 8th pick, they should what? Trade it? Or are there a pile of other players at the 8th spot or lower, with franchise or all-star potential that TO could pick up as opposed to Lamb?
      I believe he is implying Perry Jones 3 would be the better pick if available.
      And I would agree that PJ3 has a higher ceiling than either of Lamb or Beal; in terms of Potential Star status.


      • It seems to me that every position seems to have a #1 and #2 prospect in the draft, with the consensus #2s making headway relative to #1, with a huge dropoff from #2 to the next tier of players

        #1 - Davis (PF, unless he continues growing)
        #2 - Drummond

        #1 - Robinson
        #2 - Sullinger

        #1a - MKG
        #1b - Barnes
        #2a - T.Jones
        #2b - P.Jones

        #1 - Beal
        #2 - Lamb

        #1 - Lillard
        #2 - Marshall

        Depending on pre-draft workouts and interviews, it should be very interesting to see how these early rankings change and who winds up being available around the #8 draft slot for the Raptors to take.


        • my point is if he doesn't have that potential its a complete waste of a pick. He won't be much of an upgrade from derozan


          • NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
            my point is if he doesn't have that potential its a complete waste of a pick. He won't be much of an upgrade from derozan
            Except the part where he can shoot the 3ball with consistency and has much better handles.



              Their mock draft has also been updated today

              Nets Combine Preview

              by: Jonathan Givony - President
              May 16, 2012
              This weekend, 44 prospects will participate in a group workout organized by the Brooklyn Nets and Houston Rockets. We spoke with the architect of the combine, Nets assistant General Manager Bobby Marks, to get a better feel for what we can expect.


              The 44 players will be divided into four group sessions of eleven players each, two on Saturday and two on Sunday. They will be measured and put through agility tests similar to the NBA Combine in Chicago, and also will conduct interviews with the media and teams. 40 of the workout's sixty minutes will be dedicated to skill-work, while the rest will be devoted to live five on five competition.


              SESSION #1: SATURDAY, May 19, 9:30 a.m.

              Kim English, Missouri
              Jorge Gutierrez, California
              Tu Holloway, Xavier
              Mindaugas Kupsas, Lithuania
              Scott Machado, Iona
              Cameron Moore, UAB
              Ricardo Ratliffe, Missouri
              Rakim Sanders, Fairfield
              Dominique Sutton, North Carolina Central
              Terrell Stoglin, Maryland
              Joston Thomas, Hawaii

              SESSION #2: SATURDAY, May 19, 11:00 a.m.

              Jon Dunn, Northwood
              Kyle Fogg, Arizona
              Ashton Gibbs, Pittsburgh
              Drew Gordon, New Mexico
              Darius Johnson-Odom, Marquette
              Kevin Murphy, Tennessee Tech
              Josh Owens, Stanford
              Zack Rosen, Pennsylvania
              Renardo Sidney, Mississippi State
              Mitchell Watt, Buffalo
              Wesley Witherspoon, Memphis

              SESSION #3: SUNDAY, May 20, 9:30 a.m.

              Malik Alvin, Shaw
              Larry Anderson, Long Beach State
              D'Aundray Brown, Cleveland State
              Jae Crowder, Marquette
              Marcus Denmon, Missouri
              Evan Fournier, France
              Xavier Gibson, Florida State
              JaMychal Green, Alabama
              Kris Joseph, Syracuse
              Garrett Stutz, Wichita State
              Casper Ware, Long Beach State

              SESSION #4: SUNDAY, May 20, 11:00 a.m.

              Dee Bost, Mississippi State
              J'Covan Brown, Texas
              Troy Gillenwater, New Mexico St./Apollon Limassol BC
              Justin Hamilton, LSU
              Eli Holman, Detroit
              Orlando Johnson, UC Santa Barbara
              Tony Mitchell, Alabama
              Kyle O'Quinn, Norfolk State
              Robert Sacre, Gonzaga
              Maalik Wayns, Villanova
              Alex Young, IUPU


              Bobby Marks: “We knew going into this that we're not going to get lottery picks. We want to target players projected to go 20 to second round. Some of these players will go undrafted, 27 of the 44 players are kids who did not participate at PIT. They are either guys who weren't selected or declined to attend.

              Our philosophy in putting this together is, if they come, great. If not, someone else will want to come in. It's a job interview for the NBA. The first two years (2009 and 2010) we did it after the NBA pre-draft camp in mid-June. Last year we did it in early May, trying to use it as a guide for kids who were on the fence about staying in the draft or not. It was geared mostly towards underclassmen.

              This year the schedule is a little bit different because of the NCAA rule changes. At this point we know that in mid-May, a lot of the agents haven't put their arms around their kids yet. Conditioning is a concern for them. Some of them just graduated. They haven't been able to work them out with their own trainers yet. Some agents are skeptical. Here they will be playing five on five. It's the only place they can do that besides the PIT."

              Incentive for Rockets and Nets?

              Bobby Marks: "We're not just doing it for our team in Brooklyn. The D-League is taking off right now. We have an affiliate in Springfield. A good chunk of these players could be in the D-League draft. That's an advantage for us. Plus, we don't need to bring these kids back. We get everyone under one roof. If we like them we can bring them back. It's certainly worth it from an expense standpoint because all the teams that come split the costs.

              I know the Rockets like to be hands on. Our assistant coaches will be on the floor working the players out. That will give them a better feel for what the players' work ethic is. Are they coachable? We'll get to conduct interviews and psychological testing. This doesn't count as a visit for Houston.

              I'm excited to host all the NBA teams. This is like a mini-Chicago pre-draft wise. The majority of the General Managers will be here, even people like Rod Thorn who are still in the playoffs. It's a good networking opportunity. We'll be talking about trades. Free agency, and more. It's a good format to get the ball rolling. It's just another step leading up to June. Something people are planning around."

              Why Won't Certain Prospects Attend?

              Bobby Marks: "Every agent is different in how they look at the whole process. Some agents say I've never sent a player to a group workout before. Their argument is, you've seen my kid play in college. You can watch them on tape. You can see them on Synergy. Every argument is different. Some guys prefer to send only their borderline second rounders. But the proof is in the pudding. Over the last 3-4 years, a good majority of the players we've had in here get drafted. We had ten first rounders the first year we did it in 2009. The exposure is very good for these players. They will work out for teams anyway. I think the play is better in terms of the quality of competition than at the PIT."



              • love draftexpress but their mockdrafts are ridiculous. henson? really?


                • Nice find. A good place to mine the 2nd round picks.


                  • ceez wrote: View Post
                    love draftexpress but their mockdrafts are ridiculous. henson? really?
                    Yep dont understand that one....from a bpa as well as needs pov. My opinion...he is not a lottery pick.


                    • i would take sullinger over henson and sullinger makes me want to puke


                      • ceez wrote: View Post
                        love draftexpress but their mockdrafts are ridiculous. henson? really?
                        Draft Express clearly states that team needs have not been taken into consideration yet when compiling their mock drafts. They are simply ranking the players based on what they are generally hearing from NBA teams and their own assessments. The mocks at Draft Express are routinely the more accurate when leading up to the draft when comparing to the other leading mock sites.

                        Just out of curiosity, which sites to you feel put together better mocks?


                        • i usually just kinda follow what hollinger puts out since he seems to have a good handle on the pulse and interests of teams. plus he's not a dumwad like chad ford.


                          • Draftexpress is the best scouting and Mocking site out IMO. Their really professional about how they go about it. They won't consider needs to after May 30 when everything is set.


                            • Who could really rise in workouts

                              Every year the top prospects leave behind the comforts of college and head to workout sites in Chicago, Los Angeles, Las Vegas, New York, Houston and Florida to look for an edge that might put them in a better draft position.

                              Some hire basketball coaches. Others hire personal trainers. A few hire former Navy SEALs.

                              The techniques from gym to gym may differ, but the goal is the same: to fulfill a lifelong dream of playing in the NBA.

                              For the past decade I've taken a pre-draft tour to the top sites. I've seen the likes of Dwight Howard, Dwyane Wade, Greg Oden, Blake Griffin and a host of other lesser-known prospects prepare for the NBA draft.

                              This year is no different. Starting Monday, and over the course of the next three weeks, I'll be traveling throughout the U.S. checking in on the pre-draft workouts of the top prospects in the draft.

                              Players have gotten off to a later start than usual this year thanks to the fact that the NBA has pushed back both the draft lottery and Chicago pre-draft camp several weeks.

                              But by now, virtually every draft prospect in the country is in full workout mode as NBA teams begin to bring in prospects for individual workouts. Second-round prospects will hit New Jersey this weekend for a major workout in front of all 30 teams, and after that they'll begin leaving for individual team workouts. Most of the elite prospects in the draft won't begin team workouts until after the Chicago camp.

                              Who can help and hurt themselves the most in the individual workout setting? I spoke with a number of GMs to try to identify who could possibly be workout warriors and who may struggle in their final examinations as a NBA prospect.

                              GMs identified Baylor's Perry Jones, Kentucky's Terrence Jones, Washington's Terrence Ross, Baylor's Quincy Miller and St. Bonaventure's Andrew Nicholson as players who could help their stock the most with great workouts.

                              All of them have one thing in common: skill. And many of them combine that with terrific athleticism to boot.

                              "These workouts can't really measure basketball IQ or your feel for the game. We have a whole season of scouting and film for that," one GM said. "But they can allow us to gauge the skill level of players in ways that sometimes their college systems might hide. It's also a terrific gauge of a player's athletic abilities, which are often pushed to the maximum in workouts."

                              It's pretty easy to see why GMs expect these players to do well. Perry Jones is both an elite athlete and has a great face-up game that wasn't always used well at Baylor.

                              "If he comes in and really starts hitting shots, he could go very, very high," one GM said. "As a power forward, I think he's going to be a disappointment in the league. But if he could be a Paul George-type player? He could be special. George was accused of being laid-back in college, too. It's why he slipped to No. 10. Now you see the way the Pacers use him and you think the sky is the limit for him."

                              Terrence Jones primarily played down low for the Wildcats, but he's got a lot more to his game too. "He's not going to wow you in the athletic drills, but I think he's got such a well-rounded game," another GM said. "I see some Lamar Odom in him. He's another guy who, at 6-foot-9, should really excel in drills and two-on-two play. I think he was surrounded by so much talent at Kentucky that people just don't get how special a player he can be."

                              One GM says that Ross could be the top shooting guard in the draft.

                              Ross hasn't been mentioned in the same rarified air as some of the other elite 2-guard prospects, but several GMs say that's a big mistake. "That Washington team was pretty dysfunctional this year and I think it hid, at times, what Ross is capable of," said one GM. "He's got the size, athletic ability and he can really, really shoot the ball. I think when he gets into workouts with [Jeremy] Lamb, [Dion] Waiters and [Austin] Rivers, he's going to surprise a lot of people. I'm not sure he's not the best 2 guard on the board. Take him away from Washington and I think he's going to be an elite prospect."

                              Miller struggled as a freshman to fit in when Perry Jones returned from suspension and, at times, looked like he was still not 100 percent recovered from ACL surgery that took place during his senior season of high school. But several GMs said their scouts who tracked Miller in high school still believe he has the talent of a top-10 pick. "You watch the film and see the versatility and then you think, 'once he's 100 percent and has the full athletic ability back, you have to seriously consider him.' If he can hold his own or better against some older, more established prospects, there's no reason he couldn't go in the top 10. I think the workouts may be more important to him than any other player in the draft."

                              Nicholson has played four years of college ball. Is there anything left for teams to learn about him? "I don't think people realize how skilled he really is," one GM said. "I keep hearing my scouts say he's kind of like David West. Well, if he is David West, he should be 15 spots higher on our board. The more I've watched him on film, the more I think we may be missing on him. Skilled power forwards like West are hard to come by."

                              • The New Jersey Nets and Houston Rockets are hosting the first big draft workout of the season this weekend. Unfortunately, the main draw, France's Evan Fournier, won't be there. Fournier hurt himself in France earlier in the week and had to withdraw from the workout.

                              Right now Fournier is the only international player we have projected as a first-round pick. If he can't get healthy enough to work out for teams, his stock could take a hit. It looks like he's targeting the adidas Eurocamp as a spot where he can show off his wares, but with a compressed draft season this year, how many NBA decision-makers are going to make the trip to Treviso?

                              • Speaking of international players, a number of NBA scouts came back from the Euroleague Final Four in Turkey buzzing about Greek forward Kostas Papanikolaou. Papanikolaou's team, Olympiakos, won the Euroleague title, and Papanikolaou was a big reason why. He had 18 points and four rebounds in 22 minutes in the championship game and, more importantly, slowed down CSKA's Andrei Kirilenko on the defensive end.

                              The 6-8, 22-year-old forward averaged just six points and 3.4 rebounds per game for Olympiakos this season and isn't a great athlete, but he's won over some NBA scouts with his toughness, basketball IQ and motor.

                              If he were a better shooter or athlete, he'd have a real shot at the first round. Nevertheless, after his performance last weekend, he's now a likely second-round pick


                              • Evalutating the 2012 draft

                                To review:

                                1. Hitting The Jackpot (four players): The talent is immense and the upside is as trustworthy as there is in the draft. Click here for Wednesday's story.

                                2. The Gambles: (15 players): In short, this is where the risk gets weighed against the reward. Questions about these players' games -- and, in some cases, their attitudes or off-court issues -- might give NBA decision makers cause for pause, but getting it right could result in a major payoff too. Click here for Thursday's story.

                                3. The Safe Bets: (11 players): These players might not make any All-Star teams, but talent evaluators say they're the easiest to project. So if you like the skill set and don't want your bosses to be surprised, you feel comfortable picking from this pool.

                                Read more:
                                The Jackpots:
                                Anthony Davis
                                Thomas Robinson
                                Brad Beal

                                The Gambles:
                                Perry Jones
                                Terrence Jones

                                The Safe Bets:

                                Personally, outside of Anthony Davis, I think every player in this draft is a gamble. A guy in the late first round is going to be a much better pick than a top 10 pick in 2-3 years time - with the benefit of hindsight of course.