2012 Draft Thursday, June 28th: Raptors select Terence Ross

[Apollo]

If Davis is the consensus #1 then you'd trade down. Now if he's the consensus #1, then most people think he's the best player, so why would you trade down? That makes no sense if you claim that you'd pick the best player. Unless what you're saying is that no matter what other people say you think Barnes is the best player and that's who you're going to choose because you think he's the best player. But that's not how it's coming out.

I've said many times that right now I like Barnes the most. I'm not sold on Davis yet. Barnes right now isn't the #1 on most people's board so it makes sense to trade down in that scenario.

[mcHAPPY]

The Great Debate

Raptors fans aren't the only ones discussing the question of, "Who is #1?"

The Studs

Harrison Barnes, Anthony Davis and Andre Drummond are separating themselves from the pack right now. Barnes is the most proven commodity while Davis and Drummond are hyped-up off of potential.

So who is the early favorite for first pick in the draft? There is no consensus at the moment, but Anthony Davis looks to have the edge. The 6-10 power forward moves like a guard with the size of a center. He is skilled and athletic beyond belief. He put up 14 points, six rebounds and seven blocks against Kansas last week. Through his first four collegiate games, Davis is putting up 13 and eight (with 4.5 blocks a night), and shooting a godly 72 percent from the floor. Even if Davis broke his toe and was out for the rest of the season, he would still have a shot to be the first pick in the draft.

All Davis needs at this point is to put on weight (which – despite his frame – isn’t a problem considering how good NBA weight training programs are) and develop a better feel for the low post. Those are two weaknesses that can be easily fixed.

Davis seems like a no-brainer, but Harrison Barnes may give him a run for his money. Barnes is 6-8 with good athleticism and an elite skill set. He has the perfect size for the small forward position in the NBA. So far this year, he has looked significantly more comfortable as a leader, and while his number are identical outside of his scoring (up from 15.7 to 17.3 a night), his shooting percentage has jumped from 42 to 51 percent.

The only question mark with Barnes at the moment is his ceiling. He’s been ready for the professional level since his senior year in high school and has all of the tools to succeed at that level. But scouts think Davis and Drummond could have more success if they set their minds to it.

Outside of one dominating game (11 points, 14 rebounds and four blocks against Maine), Drummond has not gotten off to a great start (5.8 points, 6.3 rebounds, two blocks a night on 41 percent shooting). Patience is key here. You never turn your head on a 6-11, 260-pound big man who has drawn comparisons to Amar’e Stoudemire and Dwight Howard. Not only is he on a stacked team where he does not get many touches, but it definitely doesn’t help that he is playing with a broken nose. Check back in February and we could have Drummond pegged as a lock for the first pick in the draft. That’s how talented he is.

Source: Dime Magazine

[Joey]

Good article Matt. Should be an exciting year of Basketball!

Yes, I know. We did go over that. But the problem is that both of you didn't state that outright. You both argued about positions and brought in other issues that were completely beside the point, hence why I took issue with your argument. Getting back to the house analogy, it's like selling a house and talking about the colour of the walls and carpet in the living room. It's nice, but that's not why I'm going to buy the house, is it?

I'm pretty sure I stated my feeling that Barnes would be an Elite player, pretty early on in the process.
Nothing that I've brought up has been 'beside the point'. It's all relevant.
Whether or not you care what position they play, it doesn't mean its not relevant in the conversation.

I thought you took issue with my argument because you felt Davis was better than Barnes...

And once again, I think that house analogy is silly, as you basically say that the guy that I think that can be elite and have an impact, can't be 'the house'. Or however that analogy works.

[mcHAPPY]

Dime also watching Miller and Lamb:

Early Draft Risers

While it may be early, here’s a list of some of the early risers:

Quincy Miller – Quincy Miller has as much talent as Davis, Drummond and Barnes. He is a 6-9 small forward with a smooth game, and he’s averaged 18 points per game through three games. The big question before the season was how well he would recover from his season-ending leg injury that curtailed his senior year. So far, Miller has looked excellent. In fact, he has looked even better than teammate Perry Jones did last year. It will be interesting to see if this continues once Jones returns from his suspension. If there were any questions about how Miller would recover from injury, they have been answered.

Jeremy Lamb – Lamb set the college basketball world on fire in his first game of the year with a dunk that many said could be the best dunk of the season. That, however, is not the reason why his stock has risen. Many scouts questioned his leadership ability after he could not lead the U-19 USA team to a gold in the FIBA World Championships this past summer. Perhaps that was a function of a few bad fits on the team, but Lamb has proven thus far that he has indeed taken his game to another level.

Quincy has had some issues shooting the last couple of games - probably as teams are better scouted and preparing for him - but if his knee stays healthy and there are no signs of concern, he could also join the 'debate'. #1 might be a little unrealistic but certainly top 5 could be a possibility.

[mcHAPPY]

Few top PG's in the draft.... if any?

Point Guard Problems

While this lineup projects to be one of the stronger draft classes in recent years, it is weak at the point guard position. The top three consensus point guard prospects are Myck Kabongo, Marquis Teague and Josiah Turner and all three are freshmen going through an adjustment period. If the three of them do not catch up fast enough, there could be some shifting in the point guard position draft boards.

Source: Dime Magazine

In the last four seasons, Calipari has had Derrick Rose, Tyreke Evans, John Wall, and Brandon Knight run the point for his team. Teague has a lot to live up to. But if it’s one player who will get better during the course of the season its Teague.

“By the end of the year I want people to say, ‘I want him to be my point guard’,” said Calipari. “They’re not saying that right now. So I just have to keep coaching him. He’s a great kid, he listens, but I’m not settling for anything less than he’s capable of doing to run our team.”

Source: Dime Magazine


Tim Frazier at Penn State is a PG I have not heard much about. He is a 6'1" 160lb junior averaging 21 points, 5.2rebs, 7.2ast shooting 50.6% FG, 54.5% from 3, and (surprisingly only) 67.9% FT.

He has led Penn State to a 4-1 record early with the only loss a drubbing to Kentucky 85-47.

Shabazz Napier at UConn is certainly playing good as well. 18/6/6 on 53%FG and 47%FT with 2 steals. Again only 67% from FT line.

[Nilanka]

Game changing, franchise-lifting players have two things in common: elite skillsets and elite athleticism. That's pro sports in a nutshell

I don't think "elite" athleticism is required to be a game-changing, franchise player. Look at Larry Bird, Brandon Roy (when healthy), Dirk Nowitzki, Paul Pierce (who you mentioned), Tim Duncan, Yao Ming (when healthy), Jason Kidd, Steve Nash, etc.

None of these players would be confused with Dwight Howard, Dominique Wilkins or Derrick Rose, but they're definitely game-changing, franchise players. I'm not suggesting we draft Barnes, but I'm just saying you don't need a 40 inch vertical, or be able to bench press a Corolla, to be a top-10 player in the NBA.

[Lark Benson]

I don't think "elite" athleticism is required to be a game-changing, franchise player. Look at Larry Bird, Brandon Roy (when healthy), Dirk Nowitzki, Paul Pierce (who you mentioned), Tim Duncan, Yao Ming (when healthy), Jason Kidd, Steve Nash, etc.

None of these players would be confused with Dwight Howard, Dominique Wilkins or Derrick Rose, but they're definitely game-changing, franchise players. I'm not suggesting we draft Barnes, but I'm just saying you don't need a 40 inch vertical, or be able to bench press a Corolla, to be a top-10 player in the NBA.

I think this is where a lot of misconceptions are made about what elite athleticism means. It isn't simply the ability to jump really high, it can be any combination of speed, quickness, leaping ability, strength, mobility, fluidity/grace/body control, etc that gives you a decided physical advantage over just about everyone at your position, allowing the game to become easier by virtue of that advantage.

As for your list, Dirk has elite athleticism for a seven footer, and so did Timmy once upon a time. Ditto healthy Yao Ming relative to his size. Nash and Kidd both had elite quickness and speed in the open court in their primes, easilly. Brandon Roy and Paul Pierce never made it to elite in my opinion. And Bird played in an era when physical fitness was an afterthought compared to it's importance in today's NBA.

To get back to Harrison Barnes, what's his physical advantage that puts him in the elite category?

[Nilanka]

I wasn't endorsing Barnes per se, but I see your point on athleticism relative to a player's position. However, the term "elite" is pretty subjective. Dirk and Duncan might've been considered athletic at some point in their careers, but none come close when compared to Howard. If Howard is considered an elite athlete, is it fair to use the same term to describe Dirk and Duncan?

[Joey]

To get back to Harrison Barnes, what's his physical advantage that puts him in the elite category?

"Athletic wing with long arms (7-foot wingspan), good muscle tone and excellent body balance."
"Already has good body strength and with wide shoulders and core strength, should be able to add additional strength without sacrificing any speed or agility"
"Does a good job of attacking the basket and creating contact and free throw shooting opportunities … Good foot speed, both side to side and first step off the dribble."
NBAdraft.net

So basically, he's bigger and stronger and just as quick than most at his position; and even when he is at a disadvantage, in terms of size, he knows how to use his body, and use contact to his advantage.

Not to mention, I'm not sure why you consider Dirk an "Elite Athlete" and yet Barnes is not ... not sure how that works.

[Tim W.]

So basically, he's bigger and stronger and just as quick than most at his position; and even when he is at a disadvantage, in terms of size, he knows how to use his body, and use contact to his advantage.

Not to mention, I'm not sure why you consider Dirk an "Elite Athlete" and yet Barnes is not ... not sure how that works.

I don't think Barnes has a physical advantage over most in the NBA. In fact I'd say he's probably pretty average physically for the SF position.

As for Dirk, I don't think there are many 7 footers who are as mobile and coordinated as Dirk is. He's not a high flier but he's certainly got a physical advantage over the majority of players his size.

[Joey]

I don't think Barnes has a physical advantage over most in the NBA. In fact I'd say he's probably pretty average physically for the SF position.

Well I didn't say 'most in the NBA'. I said most at his position.
Right now, he is playing in the NCAA, and I believe he holds a Physical Advantage over other SFs in the NCAA.

As he grows into his body, I believe he has the potential to have a body similar to that of Lebron, if he works at it.
Can't say that about guys like Quincy Miller or Anthony Davis.


What physical advantage does Anthony Davis have over Power Forwards currently playing in the NBA?
(Besides that UniBrow. That should be seen as a Physical Advantage. Thing is SCARY! Hahah)
(I do believe Davis IS an elite Athlete. But that doesn't mean he actually has physical advantages over those that are currently pro's.)

As for Dirk, I don't think there are many 7 footers who are as mobile and coordinated as Dirk is. He's not a high flier but he's certainly got a physical advantage over the majority of players his size.

So you consider Andrea Bargnani an "Elite Level Athlete"?

[mcHAPPY]

Well I didn't say 'most in the NBA'. I said most at his position.
Right now, he is playing in the NCAA, and I believe he holds a Physical Advantage over other SFs in the NCAA.

Being at an advantage in the NCAA does nothing for the NBA.

As he grows into his body, I believe he has the potential to have a body similar to that of Lebron, if he works at it.
Can't say that about guys like Quincy Miller or Anthony Davis.

I disagree on LeBron. LeBron, as much as I hate him, is a once in a generation basketball player physically, imo.

Barnes is also a year older than Miller and Davis with a summer of Division 1 coaching and off season training under his belt. If you are talking strength, no doubt Barnes has an advantage over those two. If you are talking speed, agility, and leaping ability I'm not sure I am in agreement. Basketball wise, if you are talking strength taking the ball to hole I am in agreement. If you are talking passing, rebounding, dribbling, and shooting (unsure with Davis as he supposedly has the ability but not getting opportunity at UK) then I am unsure to somewhat disagree.

What physical advantage does Anthony Davis have over Power Forwards currently playing in the NBA?
(Besides that UniBrow. That should be seen as a Physical Advantage. Thing is SCARY! Hahah)
(I do believe Davis IS an elite Athlete. But that doesn't mean he actually has physical advantages over those that are currently pro's.)

Davis' physical advantages: reach, length, speed, agility

Davis' physical disadvantages: weight/builk

Davis' disadvantages were also what everyone was spouting about JV last year. Clearly as he physically matures he is going to add size naturally as his frame appears to be able to handle the weight which was also what many said of JV last year. *EDIT* not to mention what Alex McKecknie or any pro training staff will do to help him achieve his full physical potential.

Positioning and basketball IQ can also help Davis overcome this disadvantage. If Davis was a pussy I'd be concerned but the guy goes non-stop and does not back down from physical contact, initiating as much as he receives.

So you consider Andrea Bargnani an "Elite Level Athlete"?

I'm not going there.

[Tim W.]

Well I didn't say 'most in the NBA'. I said most at his position.
Right now, he is playing in the NCAA, and I believe he holds a Physical Advantage over other SFs in the NCAA.

As he grows into his body, I believe he has the potential to have a body similar to that of Lebron, if he works at it.
Can't say that about guys like Quincy Miller or Anthony Davis.


What physical advantage does Anthony Davis have over Power Forwards currently playing in the NBA?
(Besides that UniBrow. That should be seen as a Physical Advantage. Thing is SCARY! Hahah)
(I do believe Davis IS an elite Athlete. But that doesn't mean he actually has physical advantages over those that are currently pro's.)

Barnes is not going to have a body similar to LeBron. LeBron is a freak of nature at about 6'10 and 240lbs yet more athletic than just about every SF. Barnes is about average size for an NBA SF and about average athleticism, for that position as well. Quincy Miller has elite level athleticism that will separate him from the rest of the pack.

And have you watched Davis? He's far more agile and quick than most PFs in the NBA. He'll have a similar advantage that Bosh does, in this respect. He's also got an above average wingspan for most NBA centers.

So you consider Andrea Bargnani an "Elite Level Athlete"?

Bargnani is quicker and more agile than most centers in the NBA and I've been saying for years that he's got elite level athleticism.

[Tim W.]

Matt, you beat me to it. Although I did "go there".

[mcHAPPY]

CBS breaking down the 2012 draft class

Anthony Davis

[University of Kentucky freshman Anthony Davis has emerged as the consensus No. 1 pick in the 2012 draft owing to his unique combination of size, length, instincts, skill level and finesse. His ability to block shots as a one-on-one post defense and help defender are his calling card. He can close down passing and driving lanes, step out to defend the high post and switch onto perimeter players if necessary without getting immediately exposed.

Davis has regularly drawn comparison to Marcus Camby thanks to his shot-blocking and rebounding abilities. He will need to improve his strength – both upper and lower body – to become a Camby-esque rebounder at the next level, but he keeps plays alive and taps balls out relying on his wingspan alone.

Tall and long enough to eventually play center in the NBA, Davis nonetheless freely moves around the perimeter, is comfortable turning to face the basket and has enough feel to develop a mid-range game. There’s a very real possibility that he turns into one of the best high screen-and-roll threats in the NBA. Davis has the size and footwork to set a worthwhile screen, the grace to roll quickly to the basket or fade to a spot, the hands to receive the pass and the length and leaping ability to finish well above the rim. He also could become an excellent high-post player with the skill to face the hoop and either use a dribble to collapse the defense or feed a more traditional low-post scorer with an entry pass.

Davis isn’t ready to be a franchise-changing player straight out of the gate but his learning curve won’t be that steep. He’s far more polish than project and should be in the All-Star discussion within four seasons assuming he continues to fill out.] - Ben Golliver

[Davis' best offensive ability so far has been in the pick-and-roll. Kentucky has ran it more this season than in years prior, and Davis has been a huge part of that. He sets solid screens and with his prior knowledge as a guard, understands how to navigate the lane for the passer. It doesn't hurt that his 7-4 wingspan allows him to pretty much catch and destroy the rim anytime they can execute the pass. He hasn't been asked to do much beyond that offensively, and scouts will want to see him play with his back to the basket as well as from short-range face-up. He's not the complete package, but his skillset just provides so much, it's easy to see why he's the consensus No. 1.

Defensively everyone will rave about the measurables and athleticism, but maybe the more impressive element is how much effort Davis puts into that end of the floor. He's able to attack weakside and recover to his man, and there's not a shot he can't block. The phrase "JaVale McGee with a higher basketball IQ" has entered my mind more than one time when watching him defensively. That said, he hasn't faced a true post player defensively, and considering his slender frame and the fact he hasn't grown into his length yet, that's going to be an area of concern. Likewise he needs to improve his ability to hold rebounding ability because eventually he won't be simply long enough to snag whatever comes his way.] - Matt Moore

Michael Kidd-Gilchrist

[Davis is the No. 1 overall at this point, but it's entirely possible that instead of Harrison Barnes or Jared Sullinger, two Wildcats are taken back-to-back at the top of the draft. Michael Kidd-Gilchrist has been very impressive early on, and even more so when you consider his pro prospects. A 6-7 forward, Gilchrist possesses an NBA-adaptable skillset with the mentality to match. His biggest weakness so far has been turnovers, but even that shows a willingness to function as a playmaker and not just as the tip of the spear. His handle in the pick and roll is going to be a major asset, and his frame allows him to back down smaller defenders. He's shooting 42 percent from the perimeter early on, and that range opens up his baseline burst which is exceptional. In short, it's hard to find a prospect element that's noticeably weak.

Defensively, he attacks well in transition and does a good job sticking. He's got a ways to go in that area in terms of technique, but his lateral quickness is sufficient and his chasedown block ability is reminiscent of some of the elite players in the game. He's a driven winner that is prone to visible frustration on the court, but not a degree he disengages when things are going poorly. MKG joins UConn's Jeremy Lamb as the fastest riser early in the season.] - Matt Moore

Harrison Barnes

[You hear the term "NBA ready" but Barnes is all of that. His body is developed, his game is developed and mentally, he looks like he'll be prepared to step right in to a rotation.

Love Barnes' mid-range game. He strikes me a bit Rip Hamilton-ish in that he's really adept at coming off a screen and getting just enough space to release a jumper.

He uses his body well in traffic. Distributes weight and takes contact really well.

Good help defense instincts. He had one block in particular against Michigan State where he came seemingly from nowhere for a beak weakside block.

Hard to say exactly where he stands athletically. He's doesn't seem to have a lightning quick first step and in the one breakaway he had, his dunk was pretty pedestrian. Not to say he should've done a 360 or something, but I'm just not sure he's a crazy good athlete or anything. Not that he needs to be in order to make it in the NBA, but I just don't see him dunking over Dwight Howard or anything.

With Barnes, there's just a "feel" to him. He just always looks like he gets it. Where he needs to be, what shot is good and what's not, when to drive, when to pass -- he has a tremendous feel for the game. He lets it come to him and is just forceful enough.

Don't write Barnes off because he doesn't have incredible athletic ability. He's polished and understands spacing extremely well. There have been a lot of great scorers in the NBA exactly like him. ] - Royce Young

Kendall Marshall

[One thing sticks out when watching Marshall: court vision. He sees the floor extremely well. He had one leak out pass against the Spartans that blew me away. He got a long rebound, quickly looked up and hit a streaking teammate in the span of about two seconds. Impressive.

Some are going to think that because Marshall doesn't score much that he's not NBA lottery material. But he's a floor general in the truest sense of it. He tries to control the game from start to finish.

Good size (6-3), but not overly quick or athletic.

Not a good shooter by any means. His form is iffy from outside and he has a pretty slow motion. I could see an NBA coach trying to overhaul that.

He plays with great pace. He's quick without hurrying and always under control. It's extremely rare to see him reckless on a possession. Hardly ever makes a bad decision with the ball in his hands.

- He's going to have to improve as a finisher at the next level. What makes a good point guard isn't just the ability to control a game passing the ball, but also have the ability to drive and score. He needs to just watch Rajon Rondo and Tony Parker for hours on ends.] - Royce Young

Andre Drummond

[It's still early and Drummond's not yet adapted to that UConn offense yet. It's not the college game -- it's playing for Calhoun. Just give it some time.] - Matt Norlander

Drummond's improved tremendously since his opening night disaster. But one thing should remain in sight: there's time for the kid. It would be better not to rush a big man with his particular set of assets (raw, hyper-athletic, tremendous length, questions about mental preparation) into the next level until he's ready. If he needs a year of coming off the bench or playing a complimentary role to grow into his confidence, that will do more for him than another year of strength training in the NBA. Drummond has every ounce of potential he's been hyped to have. But there's also no reason to force him to be ready right now. We'll give him the year but remain cautious about him being a lock.] - Matt Moore

Jeremy Lamb

[Re: Drummond. Look right here. Lamb was a nobody at this time last year. Now he's seen as a surefire lottery pick -- and he's looked fantastic to start the season. Have already heard top-three talk. ] - Matt Norlander

[The dunk. That's all I needed. Lamb's the alpha dog scouts love, and probably has the greatest gain potential from season start position to season's end.

An underrated aspect of improvement? Lamb's becoming a ball-hawk. He's got great anticipation on the edge. ] - Matt Moore

http://eye-on-basketball.blogs.cbssp...48484/33465369


I did not put all the write ups in - believe it or not.

Also noticeably absent from the article are Perry Jones and Quincy Miller.