2012 Draft Thursday, June 28th: Raptors select Terence Ross

[NoPropsneeded]

I've seen more stuff about him not being strong enough and being to nice than about his motor. Jamaal Magloire and Dwane Casey just need to yell at him a bit to get him to play at 100% every night. Bargnani is a good example, before this season he just coasted on the perimeter shooting jumpers and not playing D. Now look at him, playing at a high level, taking high percentage shots and playing much better D.

[MangoKid]

Perry Jones is more athletic than charlie V. Also in college he was forced to play inside more than CV and his teammates never got him the ball where he wanted. PJ3 doesn't really have a maturity problem and I'm not so sure about motor or IQ either. He was forced to play in the post at Baylor and i don't think that is really where he belongs. He is a much better ball handler than CV and arguably more mobile and quick. Many players coming out of college have been accused of not having a high motor, look at demarcus cousins. He was criticized of not having a motor and a passion for the game. Look at him now, probably one of the most Talented young bigman in the league who can put up double double in his sleep, the only problem with him is maturity. A change of scenery and maybe the hype of coming to the NBA could give PJ3 a wake up call.

What about Sullinger? to me he looks like Glen Davis 2.0

Is Jones more athletic than Villanueva now and coming out of college? I'd say yes, but it's not like Charlie was a slouch. Here's a scouting report done by draft expess on Villanueva back in 2005

Strengths
Athletic, versatile big man who can play multiple positions, score from both inside and out and is a mismatch every time he steps on the floor.

Villanueva moves very well for his height, 6-11, and can really get off the floor to block shots and finish in transition. He also has a pretty nice first step for a near 7 footer, aided by his long strides and good ball-handling skills. He can drive both left or right equally well. He can also handle the ball on the break and find the open man.

Has a very good body, big hands and an excellent wingspan, and that really comes to play in his rebounding and shot blocking. Thanks to his physical stature and athletic ability, Villanueva can really be a force down low defensively, especially by altering shots around the rim, and on the boards, when he puts his mind to it. A good weakside defender, rotates well to intimidate inside the post.

He has some developing post moves, especially a fadeaway hook shot and spin moves, aided by decent footwork which he uses to score around the basket if he can establish deep enough position (doesn’t happen enough).

Villanueva is a good perimeter player with range out to the three point line. He is an excellent player to have in the high post because he is smart, can put the ball on the floor, hit the 18 footer, or find the open man with his above average passing skills. Cuts well himself to find the best angle to get open and receive the ball, works the pick and roll nicely.

A very unselfish player, almost too unselfish at times.

Weaknesses
Looks passive, disinterested at times, as if he's not giving 100%. Drifts in and out of the game and can be extremely inconsistent. Doesn't always play with the type of aggressiveness you would like to see out of a player with so much talent, although that's beginning to improve. Can get discouraged easily and lose confidence in himself, as witnessed by his extremely poor start to the 2004-2005 NCAA season with the Huskies.

Not a good man to man defender at all at this point. Has poor lateral quickness and footwork, especially on the perimeter as he often gets burned by his man if he’s guarding someone smaller then him. This pretty much rules out him playing any Small Forward on defense, as the results would likely resemble Antoine Walker or Glenn Robinson.

Doesn't seem to mind letting his man establish deep position on him in the post, relying too much on his shot blocking skills (length+athleticism) that he thinks will make up for it and save the day time in and time out. Regardless to say, it doesn’t always happen and most certainly won’t in the NBA.

Not quite the force you would expect in the post just yet. Doesn't have a great post move he can rely on, often prefers to fade away and settle for soft stuff rather then taking the ball up strong. Adding strength would help in this aspect. Doesn't seem to be the most contact-loving player in the world. Footwork definitely needs to get better on both offense and defense.

While he's a good ball-handler, his dribble is a little bit high and I'm not sure that will fly in the pros. His decision making can be questionable as well, he doesn't always play to his strengths and can have a couple of wild “let’s give Calhoun an ulcer now” minutes at least once a game.

Outlook
Villanueva has a lot of potential, the only question is whether he can live up to it. I'm a bit skeptical myself, but someone is going to fall in love with his size, skills and athleticism I'm sure. If he can play like he has over the last month (December 22-January 19th) though, it's going to be tough to pass on him after things get murky outside of the top 4. Especially if your team doesn't need a PG.

Now here's one on Jones III.. at least some tweets from this season:

DraftExpress: RT @DanWolken I asked Perry Jones what it was like to be expected to be best player on floor every game. "I get tired of it a little bit."
2012-03-25 03:34:12

DraftExpress: Counted at least a dozen possessions this half where Perry Jones had a chance to make a play on defense and simply stood there flat footed.
2012-03-25 03:20:31

DraftExpress: Quincy Acy and Perry Jones giving Baylor virtually nothing on defense today. Not rotating. Not hustling. No intensity. Almost invisible.
2012-03-25 03:11:56

Offensively, Jones gets his touches in a variety of ways. An extremely reliable target for his teammates to throw drive-and-dish passes to, he has great potential as a pick-and-roll finisher thanks to his hands, touch and leaping ability. He is also a solid (although clearly not a dominating) presence on the offensive glass for the same reason -- he has the ability to pogo stick off the ground multiple times before his opponents can react.

Baylor has been increasingly utilizing him in post-up situations, an area in which he's been relatively effective. Jones doesn't possess the girth to establish great position against the strongest collegiate big men he'll match up against (such as the Morris twins at Kansas), but with his decent footwork, outstanding touch and phenomenal extension around the rim, he's able to do some very interesting things at this level, especially when he's being aggressive. Moving forward, it's paramount for him to add strength to his promising, yet currently underdeveloped frame.

Where Jones might be at his best a few years down the road is as an isolation threat from the high post. With his solid ball-handling skills and devastating first step, he has the ability to beat most big men off the dribble with ease, something that will only become more pronounced with the NBA's superior spacing. Jones doesn't see many opportunities of this fashion at the moment and he's been fairly erratic when he does, which often results in turnovers.

WEAKNESSES...of which I found very interesting..

The weakest part of Jones' game clearly lies on the defensive end. He's shockingly unproductive from a statistical standpoint, averaging an alarmingly low number of blocks and steals every game, and very few rebounds.

Of the 90 NCAA prospects currently classified as power forwards in our database, Jones ranks 78th in defensive rebounding on a per-minute basis, which is extremely disappointing considering his physical tools and the fact that none of his teammates are particularly prolific in this category. He shows fairly poor awareness here, often failing to box out opponents and doesn't look very instinctive or energetic in the way he pursues loose balls.

These attributes definitely translate to the rest of his defensive game, where Jones clearly lacks toughness and activity. He regularly gets lost off the ball, being a step slow to react to things happening on the floor and not putting enough work in early in possessions to stop opponents from getting the ball in a favorable position. Physical players move him around the paint fairly easily and Jones doesn't always respond the way you'd hope. He often allows himself to get outhustled and outworked.

Beyond his poor fundamentals, Jones doesn't seem to be the most contact-loving player in the world. He tends to shy away from putting a body on opponents and isn't one to dive on the floor for loose balls.

For a condensed outlook, all you have to do is look at his nbadraft.net profile.

Strengths: A super athletic forward with an enormous upside … His explosiveness and physical package put him in a very rare group of players even at the top level … Possesses the versatility to play inside and on the perimeter … He is extremely fast, using his long and powerful strides to cover great distance in a very short time … A very natural and smooth athlete, he is able to change direction and get off the ground (even on 2nd and 3rd jumps) with ease … Has the ability and confidence to handle the ball in the open court and is willing to push it out in transition once he gets it off the glass … Shows an intriguing repertoire of moves off the dribble (going to both hands), add to that his extremely long and fairly quick first step and it makes for a very difficult weapon to match up with off the bounce … He has a knack for moving without the ball; he makes good cuts going to the basket and knows how to find the openings off drive & dish or pick & roll situations … His ability to catch difficult passes in traffic also makes him a good passing target inside … Once his catches the ball close to the hoop, he is an extremely efficient finisher, because he knows how to utilize his length and leaping ability … He is able to do some damage on the low block because of his reach and athleticism, but he is most effective when facing up, because he can use his quickness to get by opposing bigs … He is a decent rebounder, and when he makes up his mind to go get the ball, he becomes a threat on both ends of the floor … Has the potential to become an impact player on the defensive end, where his wingspan could wreak havoc in the passing lanes and in the blocked shots department …

Weaknesses: Even with all of his tools and upside, he's still a project and very much an unpolished product … He had a solid first season, but still fell short of the expectations and hype he had coming out of high school (part of the problem were the system and his teammates who were less than willing to get him the ball) … A big question mark is his demanor and approach to the game, too many times he is satisfied by just coasting and taking the easy route … The lack of strength and unwillingness to play to contact further add to his somewhat soft label … His lanky frame and high center of gravity allow much smaller players to body and push him off balance and he does not show the willingness to battle back … Finishing off the dribble is also a problem because any bump from a defender throws him out of stride and he is more willing to take an off balance shot rather than one through contact … He is still very young in terms of his development age and it shows in his careless and lackadaisical play with the ball … Lacking the savvy and understanding of angles, he has a hard time finding his passing target on a regular basis … His jumpshot has a lot of promise, but it is a bit of a mystery; he seems to have a fairly smooth stroke, his release shows fluidity and he has a nice rhythm shooting off the dribble or on the move, however the results and consistency are lacking … His potential in terms of rebounding and defense is unlimited, he has the tools to defend all five positions and the athleticism to get his hands on a high percentage of missed shots, however, at this point in his career he does not show the willingness to defend or rebound on a regular basis …

The common characteristics aside from the fact that both are 6'10"-6'11", athletic, both can handle the rock, put the ball on the floor and drive to the hoop, beat their man off the dribble, have somewhat of an inside-out game,both were thought of being able to play the 3 and 4 (although both suited to playing the 4 because of height-weight combination), both were thought of being able to be dominant "if they put their mind to it", both are lazy, passive and uninterested in playing defense (which doesn't fly with Casey). There are more similarities, but really, I don't want to go through it.
I don't buy the notion that Jones was playing out of position. Not for a second. He'll more leaned on more to play the 4 and if he can't play it now, he's gonna find it tough once he reaches the NBA. He has a world of talent, but he's lazy. He should have dominated at Baylor in his second year, but he didn't. Being lazy is something that sticks with you. You have to want to have the drive and desire to be the best. And from the tweets, it seems like he's not interested, and it's a huge red flag. This franchise went through with that with Vince Carter, and i don't think they want to go through with that again. And a "change of scenery" as you so put it won't help. You don't go to the NBA and dominate as a result of a change of scenery. You like him, he's your boy and that's cool, but I hope and pray that Colangelo doesn't go anywhere near him. Let someone else take that risk.

As for Sullinger, I don't believe he's a good fit in Toronto, but he'll be a very solid pro for someone. You think he's the next Glen Davis and I disagree. You're just comparing body type - and just going by that. Sullinger was more productive than Davis and was a national player of the year. He made 1st team all american team in his only seasons at Ohio State. He's got better IQ, a better offensive game than Davis. And in the end, he'll be drafted much higher.

[Miekenstien]

The common characteristics aside from the fact that both are 6'10"-6'11", athletic, both can handle the rock, put the ball on the floor and drive to the hoop, beat their man off the dribble, have somewhat of an inside-out game,both were thought of being able to play the 3 and 4 (although both suited to playing the 4 because of height-weight combination), both were thought of being able to be dominant "if they put their mind to it", both are lazy, passive and uninterested in playing defense (which doesn't fly with Casey). There are more similarities, but really, I don't want to go through it.
I don't buy the notion that Jones was playing out of position. Not for a second. He'll more leaned on more to play the 4 and if he can't play it now, he's gonna find it tough once he reaches the NBA. He has a world of talent, but he's lazy. He should have dominated at Baylor in his second year, but he didn't. Being lazy is something that sticks with you. You have to want to have the drive and desire to be the best. And from the tweets, it seems like he's not interested, and it's a huge red flag. This franchise went through with that with Vince Carter, and i don't think they want to go through with that again. And a "change of scenery" as you so put it won't help. You don't go to the NBA and dominate as a result of a change of scenery. You like him, he's your boy and that's cool, but I hope and pray that Colangelo doesn't go anywhere near him. Let someone else take that risk.

As for Sullinger, I don't believe he's a good fit in Toronto, but he'll be a very solid pro for someone. You think he's the next Glen Davis and I disagree. You're just comparing body type - and just going by that. Sullinger was more productive than Davis and was a national player of the year. He made 1st team all american team in his only seasons at Ohio State. He's got better IQ, a better offensive game than Davis. And in the end, he'll be drafted much higher.

great comparison. thank you. i agree with no p3. and i am not so sure about sullinger though. the two legs scare me. i only know oden to compare it to and it is a risk i would be very scared to take. if he can avoid injury and play with a mobile athletic center he could be a good low post scorer in this league but those legs scare me.

[saints91]

My prediction is that we end up with the 6th or 7th pick in the draft. I think Barnes would be the best player for this team if he makes it to us.

[ReubenJRD]

My prediction is that we end up with the 6th or 7th pick in the draft. I think Barnes would be the best player for this team if he makes it to us.

Agreed. Barnes or trade down and select Marshall, or even Lamb/Rivers.

[Chr1s1anL]

as for Lillard, i like him. he was a top 5 dude last year, just didn't receive the attention cause he was on such a awful team. i'm not saying he's not more of a scorer than a distributor but i think a lot of it has to do with the guys around him, specifically, being shitty. he's extremely confident, fast, has no problem scoring and can defend. i think he's a good fit, even if he comes off the bench for a year or 2. the age of pass-first PG's is over, anyways.

He broke his leg like 12 games into the season last years. Agree with the rest. If were not going to give JB the QO why not.

[NoPropsneeded]

Is Jones more athletic than Villanueva now and coming out of college? I'd say yes, but it's not like Charlie was a slouch. Here's a scouting report done by draft expess on Villanueva back in 2005




Now here's one on Jones III.. at least some tweets from this season:








WEAKNESSES...of which I found very interesting..


For a condensed outlook, all you have to do is look at his nbadraft.net profile.




The common characteristics aside from the fact that both are 6'10"-6'11", athletic, both can handle the rock, put the ball on the floor and drive to the hoop, beat their man off the dribble, have somewhat of an inside-out game,both were thought of being able to play the 3 and 4 (although both suited to playing the 4 because of height-weight combination), both were thought of being able to be dominant "if they put their mind to it", both are lazy, passive and uninterested in playing defense (which doesn't fly with Casey). There are more similarities, but really, I don't want to go through it.
I don't buy the notion that Jones was playing out of position. Not for a second. He'll more leaned on more to play the 4 and if he can't play it now, he's gonna find it tough once he reaches the NBA. He has a world of talent, but he's lazy. He should have dominated at Baylor in his second year, but he didn't. Being lazy is something that sticks with you. You have to want to have the drive and desire to be the best. And from the tweets, it seems like he's not interested, and it's a huge red flag. This franchise went through with that with Vince Carter, and i don't think they want to go through with that again. And a "change of scenery" as you so put it won't help. You don't go to the NBA and dominate as a result of a change of scenery. You like him, he's your boy and that's cool, but I hope and pray that Colangelo doesn't go anywhere near him. Let someone else take that risk.

As for Sullinger, I don't believe he's a good fit in Toronto, but he'll be a very solid pro for someone. You think he's the next Glen Davis and I disagree. You're just comparing body type - and just going by that. Sullinger was more productive than Davis and was a national player of the year. He made 1st team all american team in his only seasons at Ohio State. He's got better IQ, a better offensive game than Davis. And in the end, he'll be drafted much higher.

I Disagree Charlie V was/is more of a stretch 4 but the way Perry Jones is built he is more like a 3. I don't pay attention too much to how players play in the NCAA compared to the NBA because half the time it doesn't translate well. There have been players like Sullinger who dominate at their position and end up being busts(Kwame Brown, Hasheem Thabeet, Adam Morrison) in the NBA. There is no guarantee on how well they will do, and IMO Baylor didn't have a good coaching staff at all. The head coach was also a little to passive and not demanding enough of his players. As stated by many people PJ3 has elite athleticism that puts him in the category with Durant, Lebron. I get what you mean by not having a motor but I'm not so sure that it is because of his unwillingness to play. I've seen that in certain games he does dominate but its not consistent and i think its the coaches duty to get 100% out of his player every night. Who knows maybe coach casey could get him to play at a high level IF we draft him. If we are out of the top 5 and Barnes, MKG and Beal are off the board i think the last option would be PJ3. Sometimes you gotta take risks to get rewards

[ReubenJRD]

I Disagree Charlie V was/is more of a stretch 4 but the way Perry Jones is built he is more like a 3. I don't pay attention too much to how players play in the NCAA compared to the NBA because half the time it doesn't translate well. There have been players like Sullinger who dominate at their position and end up being busts(Kwame Brown, Hasheem Thabeet, Adam Morrison) in the NBA.

You can also talk about Jimmer Fredette. They thought he was going to have an explosive rookie season, and it ends up that the 60th pick gets the edge over former College player of the year.

[MangoKid]

I Disagree Charlie V was/is more of a stretch 4 but the way Perry Jones is built he is more like a 3. I don't pay attention too much to how players play in the NCAA compared to the NBA because half the time it doesn't translate well. There have been players like Sullinger who dominate at their position and end up being busts(Kwame Brown, Hasheem Thabeet, Adam Morrison) in the NBA. There is no guarantee on how well they will do, and IMO Baylor didn't have a good coaching staff at all. The head coach was also a little to passive and not demanding enough of his players. As stated by many people PJ3 has elite athleticism that puts him in the category with Durant, Lebron. I get what you mean by not having a motor but I'm not so sure that it is because of his unwillingness to play. I've seen that in certain games he does dominate but its not consistent and i think its the coaches duty to get 100% out of his player every night. Who knows maybe coach casey could get him to play at a high level IF we draft him. If we are out of the top 5 and Barnes, MKG and Beal are off the board i think the last option would be PJ3. Sometimes you gotta take risks to get rewards

Dude, you don't get it. No one is questioning Jones' athletic ability or skillset. As far as this draft goes, he has one of the best if not the best set of skills in the draft. The problem is between the ears. It's always been that. It's been that since high school. He doesn't want to pay the price night in and night out. Judging from tweets that experts have posted about him, he's not going to automatically have the light switch turned on once he reaches the association. Once a player doesn't have the desire or strive to work hard or want to be the best, he's going to show it - in practice and in game situations.
He didn't dispel any notions of him being lazy when he returned to Baylor for his sophmore year.

Sorry, I'll pass on him. I don't know how many guys I've seen come through the nba with elite athleticism and vast array of skills only to piss it away because they were lazy or that they didn't want to work hard. It happens all the time. What coach wants to have a player who they constantly have to be on their ass? The Raptors won't tolerate that.

For that reason alone the Raptors should and probably will pass on Jones III.

[MangoKid]

And if you think Jones won't play a stretch 4 in the nba, then I got a bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell you.

[Nilanka]

Florida's Beal fits Raptors or Wizards

The Toronto Raptors, believe it or not, had about as perfect a season as they could have hoped for, outside of becoming a serious contender, that is.

First and foremost, first-year coach Dwayne Casey proved to be a keeper, convincing his players to defend with better purpose and passion. Perhaps only the New York Knicks improved as much on defense from last season, and this improvement in Toronto will be a strong foundation moving forward.

Then they watched as their top pick from last June's draft, Jonas Valanciunas, prove to be the exciting prospect they had hoped by playing well last summer through his current season in Europe. And all this happened while Toronto kept losing games, assuring them of a very high draft pick in the 2012 draft. Indeed, this team obviously, still has a lot of needs. But it looks like they should be able to fill an important spot no matter where they pick in the lottery come May 30. This is a team that is rapidly acquiring and developing talent.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/blog?...rds-team-needs

Anyone have ESPN Insider access to the rest of this article?

[MangoKid]

Yeah, I got you..

The Toronto Raptors , believe it or not, had about
as perfect a season as they could have hoped
for, outside of becoming a serious contender,
that is.
First and foremost, first-year coach Dwayne
Casey proved to be a keeper, convincing his
players to defend with better purpose and
passion. Perhaps only the New York Knicks
improved as much on defense from last season,
and this improvement in Toronto will be a
strong foundation moving forward.
Then they watched as their top pick from last
June's draft, Jonas Valanciunas, prove to be the
exciting prospect they had hoped by playing well
last summer through his current season in
Europe. And all this happened while Toronto
kept losing games, assuring them of a very high
draft pick in the 2012 draft. Indeed, this team
obviously, still has a lot of needs. But it looks
like they should be able to fill an important spot
no matter where they pick in the lottery come
May 30. This is a team that is rapidly acquiring
and developing talent.
Needs: Athleticism on the frontline, perimeter
shooters on the wings, guard depth
The obvious pick: Anthony Davis
Certainly this will happen if the Raptors
somehow get the No. 1 pick. And yes, even
though Davis would battle both Andrea Bargnani
and Valanciunas for playing time, he would make
a huge impact in Toronto, who field a number of
below-the-rim players inside. Coming off the
bench, Davis would still get as much playing
time as he'd need, and he fits well next to either
of those two guys.
Kind of fits: Andre Drummond
The Raptors wisely chose Valanciunas last year
knowing they would let him develop for a season
overseas first. They can do the same thing with
Drummond, perhaps using the D-League
properly and letting Drummond build his skill
set, confidence, and overall basketball IQ there.
It's possible he could develop into a good
partner with Valanciunas, perhaps letting the
Raps move off Bargnani. But developing two
bigs at the same time is challenging. If not
Drummond, Kansas' Thomas Robinson would
add immediate help to their biggest need, with
his great quickness for a guy that strong.
Bad fit: Michael Kidd-Gilchrist
Kidd-Gilchrist would give them much-needed
athleticism and energy but his poor perimeter
shooting will not likely allow him to stretch
defenses for some time, if ever. However, let's
be clear, Kidd-Gilchrist would not be a
disaterous pick. It's just that picking so high, the
Raptors will have better choices available.
Perfect fit: Bradley Beal , Thomas Robinson
DeMar DeRozan is a good NBA scorer, but his
lack of perimeter shooting and suspect defense
warrants looking into a replacement, if it makes
sense. It does with Beal, as he projects as an
outstanding shooter and a very good scorer. He
should become a better player than DeRozan in
almost every other facet of the game. In fact,
adding Beal would allow them to bring DeRozan
off the bench, where he could end up being an
excellent sixth man while still being a primary
scorer. Both guys could even finish games
together as Beal will be able to defend many
small forwards thanks to his length and
strength. Toronto can't go wrong with Robinson
either, as he fills a huge need for athleticism on
the front line with the perfect game for Casey --
tough and energetic and willing to fight and
defend. He'd play major minutes as a rookie
and improve the Raptors in his first season.

[Nilanka]

Thanks for posting this Mango.

I pray [to Superman] every night that Beal somehow, someway ends up rockin' a Raptors lid on draft night.

[NoPropsneeded]

I'd be ok with MKG or Barnes.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

Davis, Beal, MKG or Barnes... otherwise BC will start looking into wheeling-and-dealing, be it up, down or out of the draft. I can't wait until May 30th!!!

I'm a little surprised at the assessment that MKG is such a bad fit. As a lockdown man defender with high BBIQ, he seems to be the ideal wing for DC. He may not be the outside threat that Beal or Barnes are already, but he seems to have a decent shot that could easily be stretched out to the 3pt line.