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Which Raptor big will be trade bait in 2012?

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  • Which Raptor big will be trade bait in 2012?

    And what will he bring in return?

    Will Casey get Bargs to play some defense this year, or will he continue to kill his team and get dumped? Will Amir Johnson's contract become attractive after a fully healthy year and some big numbers with a steady 24ish minutes a game? Will Ed Davis stall or sprint? And if Bargs learns to defend, will Ed be the odd man out as well as the most valuable chip? Or will the current trio flourish under Casey, allowing Colangelo to get flip Valanciunas?

    It's almost like a soap opera. How does it play out?

  • #2
    amir goes if bargs redeems himself this season, otherwise I am very very excited about a three man rotation of ed, amir, and val in their prime. In a way bargs is lucky that val is only coming for 2012-2013, otherwise i believe bargs would have had to be traded this offseason, and this way bargs has one more season to prove himself worthy of a position. I hope he notices the urgency and really works on his game. I dont have much faith in his work ethic but how he fares in this upcoming season will answer most of those questions.
    The Baltic Beast is unstoppable!

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    • #3
      If Ed Davis goes and Bargnani stays, I'm done with this team. Fortunately, I don't think that's going to happen. The signs over the last few months point to Bargnani being shipped out of town.
      Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
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      • #4
        Nine New Faces wrote: View Post
        And what will he bring in return?

        Will Casey get Bargs to play some defense this year, or will he continue to kill his team and get dumped? Will Amir Johnson's contract become attractive after a fully healthy year and some big numbers with a steady 24ish minutes a game? Will Ed Davis stall or sprint? And if Bargs learns to defend, will Ed be the odd man out as well as the most valuable chip? Or will the current trio flourish under Casey, allowing Colangelo to get flip Valanciunas?

        It's almost like a soap opera. How does it play out?
        From everything I've read/heard on Casey, he's an amazing coach at getting to the players. I wouldn't be surprised if Bargs rebounds more and plays better D this season. I'm prediction a 22-7-1.2 season (Yes I am optimistic).

        Comment


        • #5
          It's difficult to say. But right now, I guess Bargnani would be the big trade bait. I'm sure there are a few trades on the table for Bargnani right now that the team could pull the trigger on and be satisfied with. But to them, why push for it now? Unless it's an offer that blows their minds, why not wait to at least see if Bargnani can improve with a new coach. If that happens, a couple of things could follow.

          1. His D improves and he grabs a few more rebounds and the team doesn't have to trade him and is in fact, happy to keep him.
          2. His D improves and he grabs a few more rebounds and other teams up the ante on the offers for him and the Raptors get a better player in return than the would have if they pulled the trigger this offseason.
          3. His D and rebounding rate stays the same and the Raptors accept one of the average offers that might be on the table right now.

          I'm sure there are other scenarios as well, but this is what I'm thinking now.
          Walking like I'm already there.

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          • #6
            With the new CBA, I can see Bargs going. Perhaps Amir (not that I want him to go because Casey will love his hustle). I'm still hoping that Bargs finds his way to a team that suit his style of play (like Golden State). With Casey, games will be a grind (like play-off hustle grind) and Bargs will simply not enjoy that. I just don't see it.

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            • #7
              RaptorsFan4Life wrote: View Post
              From everything I've read/heard on Casey, he's an amazing coach at getting to the players. I wouldn't be surprised if Bargs rebounds more and plays better D this season. I'm prediction a 22-7-1.2 season (Yes I am optimistic).
              I'm not writing Andrea off. Your projections are nice. But to get a point better and almost doubling rebound averages in a style that is a grind (ie. lower offensive totals - lower boxscores, etc.), I simply don't see how he can increase his scoring without impacting Demar while doubling his rebound totals. The numbers doesn't seem to add up. I'd believe it if he went 18 and 6.3 ( 1.2 bpg). More effort will be put in this team to defend and will have less energy on offense (which is what I prefer anyway). I don't even care if they win 25 games this year but have shaved 10 points off what they give up night in and night out. I want the Raps to be a top 5 lottery team once again (and I think they will).

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              • #8
                Tim W. wrote: View Post
                If Ed Davis goes and Bargnani stays, I'm done with this team. Fortunately, I don't think that's going to happen. The signs over the last few months point to Bargnani being shipped out of town.
                Agreed that with the present it would seem Dre is the odd man out. But if he and it's a big if he gets his rebounds between 7-8, blocks back to 1.4 a game with better defense under Casey wouldn't he be the best compliment to the other 3 players (Amir, Davis and JV). In a perfect world Bargs finally see's the big picture and brings some passion next year.

                What if Ed was packaged with Jose for a all-star caliber player? Your posts consistently seem thought out and researched but this one seems a little premature saying your done with out knowing what the deal would include. But it might just be that burning hate in you towards Dre that rushed it. lol

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                • #9
                  Balls of Steel wrote: View Post
                  I'm not writing Andrea off. Your projections are nice. But to get a point better and almost doubling rebound averages in a style that is a grind (ie. lower offensive totals - lower boxscores, etc.), I simply don't see how he can increase his scoring without impacting Demar while doubling his rebound totals. The numbers doesn't seem to add up. I'd believe it if he went 18 and 6.3 ( 1.2 bpg). More effort will be put in this team to defend and will have less energy on offense (which is what I prefer anyway). I don't even care if they win 25 games this year but have shaved 10 points off what they give up night in and night out. I want the Raps to be a top 5 lottery team once again (and I think they will).
                  I agree it will be tough for him to put up similar numbers points wise in a more defensive system. With Demar likely to be taking as much or more shots and signs point to Bayless getting more minutes I'd also assume Dre's numbers to drop a bit in that category. With that said I think the development on the others will bring his FG% up again as the defense will have to be more honest. I could see him getting to 7 as that's just under a 2 rebound a game improvement not double. Especially if we can tighten things up on the perimeter and force some tougher more contested shots.

                  If the Raps get a top 5 pick next year they may finally get a star caliber player to put together with this young, athletic and becoming increasingly deep core. The future looks bright and I'm loving that the vision seems to be long term success and no more band-aid fixes.

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                  • #10
                    Tim W. wrote: View Post
                    If Ed Davis goes and Bargnani stays, I'm done with this team. Fortunately, I don't think that's going to happen. The signs over the last few months point to Bargnani being shipped out of town.
                    Good lord, if that happens, i am selling my house and moving to Nunavut.

                    But i dont see the signs you are talking about. So far, the two major moves that BC has made CAN be tied to Bargnani:

                    getting a defensive coach in casey, also having experience with a euro big in dirk
                    drafting a rebounding, defensive center in valanciunas

                    and BC has already stated that their priority is to get a FA center, and there hasnt been any indication that they are not interested in re-signing reggie.

                    for me, as much as it makes me cringe, i think BC is willing to give Bargnani one more shot at improvement.

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                    • #11
                      RAPresenting wrote: View Post
                      Agreed that with the present it would seem Dre is the odd man out. But if he and it's a big if he gets his rebounds between 7-8, blocks back to 1.4 a game with better defense under Casey wouldn't he be the best compliment to the other 3 players (Amir, Davis and JV). In a perfect world Bargs finally see's the big picture and brings some passion next year.

                      What if Ed was packaged with Jose for a all-star caliber player? Your posts consistently seem thought out and researched but this one seems a little premature saying your done with out knowing what the deal would include. But it might just be that burning hate in you towards Dre that rushed it. lol
                      If Bargnani turns into a different player, then I'd have no problem with him staying. But the chance of him becoming a decent rebounder and defender are about the same as Amir becoming a 20 ppg scorer.

                      And my point about being done if Bargnani stays and Davis is traded has to do with what I feel the direction of the club would be. The wrong one. Trading away a potentially great defensive player, while keeping a poor one, just for his scoring, would be a horrible decision, in my opinion, and one that would haunt the franchise and limit it's potential.
                      Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
                      Follow me on Twitter.

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                      • #12
                        tbihis wrote: View Post
                        Good lord, if that happens, i am selling my house and moving to Nunavut.

                        But i dont see the signs you are talking about. So far, the two major moves that BC has made CAN be tied to Bargnani:

                        getting a defensive coach in casey, also having experience with a euro big in dirk
                        drafting a rebounding, defensive center in valanciunas

                        and BC has already stated that their priority is to get a FA center, and there hasnt been any indication that they are not interested in re-signing reggie.

                        for me, as much as it makes me cringe, i think BC is willing to give Bargnani one more shot at improvement.
                        Read this...
                        http://www.wearingfilm.com/picketfen...s-of-bargnani/

                        And I don't see how the pick is an indication they want to keep Bargnani. Moving him to 4 doesn't make sense because they already have Davis, who will be a better player, quite frankly, and Amir, who is more productive and has a much better contract.

                        I think the whole "Casey has experience with a big Euro shooter" is overblown. Casey has experience coaching a team with a player who is only superficially like Bargnani, about as much as DeRozan is superficially like Kobe. Dirk isn't a poor defender, he's just not a good one. Big difference. Huge difference. And the fact that Casey has first hand experience with Dirk tells me he'll be able to come to the conclusion that Bargnani is nothing like Dirk VERY quickly.
                        Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
                        Follow me on Twitter.

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                        • #13
                          Tim W. wrote: View Post
                          If Bargnani turns into a different player, then I'd have no problem with him staying. But the chance of him becoming a decent rebounder and defender are about the same as Amir becoming a 20 ppg scorer.

                          And my point about being done if Bargnani stays and Davis is traded has to do with what I feel the direction of the club would be. The wrong one. Trading away a potentially great defensive player, while keeping a poor one, just for his scoring, would be a horrible decision, in my opinion, and one that would haunt the franchise and limit it's potential.
                          Your right in that given his track record it's more likely to remain the same. With that said Dre becoming a decent rebounder/defender (man to man is already decent just needs improvement in his rotations and help defense) is more likely then Amir being a 20 ppg scorer lets be serious! lol

                          Agreed is all things remain the same that it's not the right message to be sending to the league and it's own players (especially young ones). This season a head is going to really interesting to see what BC does to shape this team going forward.

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                          • #14
                            Tim W. wrote: View Post
                            If Ed Davis goes and Bargnani stays, I'm done with this team. Fortunately, I don't think that's going to happen. The signs over the last few months point to Bargnani being shipped out of town.
                            If Ed Davis is traded before Bargnani, I'm sure I'll be more done with the organization (Until they fire the entire management up to down) than anyone else, considering the amount of likes I have for Davis and dislikes I have of the latter.

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                            • #15
                              RAPresenting wrote: View Post
                              Your right in that given his track record it's more likely to remain the same. With that said Dre becoming a decent rebounder/defender (man to man is already decent just needs improvement in his rotations and help defense) is more likely then Amir being a 20 ppg scorer lets be serious! lol

                              Agreed is all things remain the same that it's not the right message to be sending to the league and it's own players (especially young ones). This season a head is going to really interesting to see what BC does to shape this team going forward.
                              One comment. Bargnani's man-to-man defense is VASTLY overrated. People remember the few games where he played well, but in actual fact he's a poor man-to-man defender and an extremely poor team defender. In certain, specific situations, Bargnani can be a decent man-to-man defender. He works best when he's defending someone who isn't a threat to put the ball down on the floor, and someone who uses a lot of fakes to get his defender in the air or off balance. Bargnani best attribute on defense is that he doesn't go for fakes and stays on the floor. And that he's 7 feet. He's not good at reading what a player is going to do, he's not good at anticipating or moving his feet.

                              And I'm actually serious about the comparison and it highlights what I think people overlook. Being able to sustain the energy to consistently defend and rebound are skills as unique as the ability to score. Just as Amir has never shown the ability to consistently score 20 ppg, Bargnani has never shown the ability to consistently defend and rebound. Both are physically ABLE to do it. Amir scored 20 or more points 4 times this past season. That's twice as many games as Bargnani rebounded double digits. Amir has a very soft touch around the basket, moves extremely well without the ball and is great at running the pick and roll. Plus he's got a vastly improved jumpshot. But it's not like a guy like Blake Griffin really is THAT more skilled offensively, and he averaged 23 ppg.
                              Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
                              Follow me on Twitter.

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