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  • Stahmenah_Vybz
    replied
    enlightenment wrote: View Post
    I think people just have a hard time becoming fans of european draft picks because of how little we actually know about them. I think europeans ARE more likely to be busts, but I say that because of how GM's get to interact with them. Here in the NCAA most of our draft picks get solid minutes in a semi-professional basketball court, where as Jonas (as an example) got 14 mins and played 7 real games in his league. I think there are a lot of differences to look at between euros and americans that is beyond race and more an issue of basketball environment and publicity
    Everything I would like to say you said.

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  • MyMomLovesMe
    replied
    I also think there is some un-proportionate elevation of certain players that never where able to play full seasons. Cough, cough, Garbajosa. The NBA is a hard league, its not for everyone. Many will get injured trying to meet its demands. I could probably play 15 games too before someone twists my ankle.

    So a lot of fans, take the praise in perspective and adjust it. Personally I was never a garbo fan. He did not honour his contract and played for foolish pride while he was injured.

    So sorry if, I take time to vomit, when I hear him placed on a pedestal.



    So I feel sympathetic for the part of our fanbase, that just does not want to hear the BS anymore, or tunes it out completely due to what has happened in the past.
    Last edited by MyMomLovesMe; Sat Jun 25, 2011, 03:35 PM.

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  • Raśl
    replied
    enlightenment wrote: View Post
    I think people just have a hard time becoming fans of european draft picks because of how little we actually know about them. I think europeans ARE more likely to be busts, but I say that because of how GM's get to interact with them. Here in the NCAA most of our draft picks get solid minutes in a semi-professional basketball court, where as Jonas (as an example) got 14 mins and played 7 real games in his league. I think there are a lot of differences to look at between euros and americans that is beyond race and more an issue of basketball environment and publicity
    Please understand something. Europeans are not more likely to be bust. If they're bust it's because the scouting process fail at some point. It's easy to scout a player in the NCAA knowing the stats, the level of competition and watching all the games. In the case of the European is more difficult and not all the teams have the same scouting level overseas.
    For example, Minnesota, San Antonio and Houston are great teams in terms of overseas scouting, you'll rarelly watch them making a bad decision. And Bryan Colangelo and his team have a great interest in european basketball, so he won't be wrong.

    In the other hand, you have a teams like Denver with almost no history of international scouting that draft thisklivisi (or whatever it's spelled) a few years ago, Clippers with Korolev, Magic with Vazques or the Bobcats with Ajinca and now Biyombo (trust me, this guy is not a NBA player right now, he was even a rotation player in a mediocre ACB team).

    You should be afraid of a european signing if the team has no history of having a good international scouting, you shouldn't be worried with a GM like BC

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  • Tim W.
    replied
    enlightenment wrote: View Post
    I think europeans ARE more likely to be busts, but I say that because of how GM's get to interact with them.
    The stats don't seem to back you up on this. At some point, someone is going to have the time to do a conclusive study, but looking through the drafts, it seems that the percentages of International busts to American are pretty even.

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  • heinz57
    replied
    haters are just bigger attention whores.

    more people like the pick.. or are at least content with it

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  • enlightenment
    replied
    I think people just have a hard time becoming fans of european draft picks because of how little we actually know about them. I think europeans ARE more likely to be busts, but I say that because of how GM's get to interact with them. Here in the NCAA most of our draft picks get solid minutes in a semi-professional basketball court, where as Jonas (as an example) got 14 mins and played 7 real games in his league. I think there are a lot of differences to look at between euros and americans that is beyond race and more an issue of basketball environment and publicity

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  • MyMomLovesMe
    replied
    I don't think raptor fans are racists. I don't think basketball attracts those types, but that is my opinion.


    I do think that there was a lot of racism directed at Sam Mitchell and TJ Ford by euro fans who joined our ranks and wanted to push their agenda. I think to a degree, there is a lot of mistrust of euro prospects due to the crap we had to put up with in one of our strongest seasons.

    Toronto is one of the most culturally integrated places on earth. The reactions that are coming out are just a delayed response to having our chain yanked by an influx of fans that did not understand basketball and only knew how to be fan boys of certain players.


    Racism, is pushing a COY out of town who made the playoffs with reworked rosters every year he was expected to. Booing a player that does not give effort is not racism. Wondering if your chain is being yanked once again, is not racism. There is good reason to be weary, our team has suffered tremendously by an uneven agenda pushed by the vocal few, who often could not care about Bosh or the Toronto Raptors other than for their country men.

    I understand why there are euroleague skeptics. Nothing wrong with healthy skepticism. I don't think our fans woke up one day hating Europe, they just hate the European Basketball Agenda and have little trust of those that are guided by it exclusively. All the power to them. We need balance.


    That said, you should of seen the smile on my face when we drafted JV, I was already smiling when Tristan got picked because I knew we just got promoted to pick one pick above of where I expected to be.



    EDIT: BTW, if you want to see racism first hand, go to Europe, you will be shocked as to what is acceptable.
    Last edited by MyMomLovesMe; Sat Jun 25, 2011, 03:11 PM.

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  • bloodyhandedgod
    replied

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  • GameBreaker
    replied
    Raps Mixed Culture Revealing Deep Racism?

    I pose this question because, without a doubt in my mind and many others, every time we consider, look at, draft, acquire any player not born in the US or Canada as "garbage" because he's white. But Nash seems to get a pass for some reason. Point I'm making is don't make this a soccer mentality where race plays a huge issue. Our NBA make-up, as a whole, is changing. These are new times, eras being formed, generations passing the baton to the next and no matter what we say, live by, love and cherish, we're still a PLANET of RACES. Get over it.

    I'm black and my girl is white/french Indian and our son has the best of both worlds. This is basketball, not Race-ball, y'all. When I read some of the trash posted by some cats, it disgusts me, real talk. If anything, I just wish THIS little spot we have on RR as RAPS fans, shouldn't follow this mentality. This is a country that Thompson and Joseph are gonna rep, even better than Magloire did/does. These dudes wanna be proud of where they come from, but, listening to some immature racist jabs about Euro players is 100 % WACK from concentrate.

    We need players that have the skills, talent and IQ to play the game of ball. We need these players, REGARDLESS of skin color. Why can't the likes of Dirk, Zabonis, Stockton, etc...why can't they have idols? As a matter of fact, I like Jonas more now because of the racist hate he's getting city-wide. I'm an underdog fan, and Jonas is facing a fanbase, with obvious lack of any knowledge of a player, that seems quite rash towards a guy who hasn't even taken a piss in his new home. Lighten up, people, and slide off the racist hate.

    Hate him because he racked up fouls, shot 2-20, gets slammed on, etc. But dude hasn't even played here, yet. And if he's good, that's great. He's only 19, y'all. Imagine you in HIS shoes, having to listen and hear media boosting him and such, while OUR minds start crafting "ideas" of the who this kid is, him having to come to a country where he has to learn english, while answering questions he doesn't even have answers for...I'm happy for him and he seems like a great kid, who WANTS to be here....all while hearing the "fans" bellowing out racist ****. Absolutely counter-productive for future success.

    Face it, our culture is changing, in that regard too. Where players are now, WANTING to come here and change the culture to a winning one. Soon after, maybe your US/NBA star players might follow suit. Fact is, we need talent to focus on, not color. I can hear it, now: Players telling guys that you'll like it in Toronto, as long as your black?!?!?! Insane. As for my FELLOW multi-cultural peers on RR, I really hope you ALL have a player entering the NBA in the future. That alone will help raise the level of people going out to learn about cultures by learning about that respective player. Long live Multi-Culturalism!!!! Raps All Day!!!! That is all.

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  • Shee
    replied
    Good stuff youngguns thats what I've been thinking the whole time... people need to settle down, we got potentially good players we still gotta wait and see on.. And I agree that Jose can play, especially if he gets more confident with his shot. Plus Bayless averaged like 20 pts a game the last 10 games (agree we lost most but I mean, he's 22, give the guy a chance...) Why go after Knight/Kemba?

    The 80% refers, for example, to most of the comments in the Draft night Open Thread right after the guy was drafted

    http://raptorsrepublic.com/2011/06/2...#disqus_thread

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  • LBF
    replied
    i think barney is as good as gone its just a matter of judging his real value isay hes gone around deadline day if the nba is resumed

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  • Pele
    replied
    All fine points so far. I was hugely disappointed on Draft night... even hurled an expletive toward the screen in front of my children. (which promptly brought the ire of my other half down hard on me, deservedly so)

    After digesting this pick, I'm O.K. with it. I think the key going forward is to keep a stable crew together until they reach their mid-late twenties. (3-4 years) BC has to keep Demar, Amir, Ed and JJ on board for the whole process.

    I'm also kind of happy that we'll suck next year and hopefully get a top five pick again.

    What I want to see next year is Sonny develop a long range shot, preferably from the corner three. That way he can sit there while the defense wonders if he will attack the rim or drain a trey. This guy has to step it up right away, his leash is short.

    JuJu should stay on board. I personally think he has a bit of a Forrest Gump mentality. Can't take his refusal too seriously. However, he can defend, nuff said.

    Give Alabi minutes and army his arse into a tough s.o.b. Let the inner African loose. (no racism here, I would say the same about a Scotsman or Friesen, which I am.) He needs to be a presence.

    Cut Dorsey, or package him into a trade for a good 3-point shooter.

    Give Ajinca some burn. He has some nice video. Shows some fluidity and athleticism.

    Keep English around to develop all players strokes. We need long range accuracy.

    Somehow knock it into Bayless's head what he needs to become if he wants a long, illustrious, successful career in the NBA. Playmaker who can attack or score from distance. I'd like to see him turn a corner next year.

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  • ibzilla
    replied
    I don't want to pop your bubble but that lineup you read with Bayless and Jonas is almost D-League material in the NBA. Most draft picks don't pan out and the fact that the Raps can only add talent through the draft don't expect the Raps to be any good for a 5-7 years unless they get lucky in the draft. If they add a scorer like Granger and take a flier on Oden, then they can be worthy of competing in the NBA, otherwise it's the second worst roster in the NBA as the Bobcats are worse but not too far away

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  • white men can't jump
    replied
    The thing I just can't seem to understand why people care so much about a draft pick regardless of who it is. There were not many guys who are expected to make an impact next year. As a fan who remembers the 16 win days, the "Antonio Davis is not a starting C but somehow he's an all-star" days, and the "Michael Stewart is the future of our interior D" days, I'm happy with the prospect of having our centre position filled for years to come.

    Oh, and I love Antonio Davis, but man was it hard watching the poor bastard have to guard bigger guys all the time. He knew how to bring it though.

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  • Apollo
    replied
    I think they're a minority. Most people around here don't hold motherland against a player.

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