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Sports Illustrated Top 20 Free Agents 2011: Raptors (Joeys) Likely Interest Level.

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  • #16
    joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    But does that 22-win team not need to start somewhere? And is it not in the teams best interests to add young, inexpensive talent (keep in mind, the new CBA will likely be 'cheapest' in its first year.). I think if we could get Marc Gasol, Thaddeus Young, Jeff Green or Deandre Jordan, would they not fit perfectly in with a young, developing core?

    I understand your concerns, but I don't think one has to look at wins and losses to figure out whether its benefitial to add Young, Athletic, Potential-laiden players, at what will likely be the cheapest price available until the next CBA is negotiated and players give up even more.
    Where a 22 win team starts is in the draft or trades. No decent player is going to sign with a 22 win team unless you massively overpay him. Especially one that is not a preferred destination. 22 win teams shouldn't be overpaying free agents unless those free agents are going to make them a contender.

    I also think going after a center the calibre of Marc Gasol or DeAndre Jordan would be a huge mistake. The Raptors have already drafted their starting center for the future (hopefully) AND have 3 PFs that demand big minutes. Even if you trade Bargnani (please), you'll still have four players (including Valanciunas) who should be playing 30 minutes or so a game. And there are simply not enough minutes to go around. If 3 big men play 30 mpg, that only leaves 6 or so mpg for a guy like Alabi. You can't play four guys 20-23 mpg with the talent that Davis, Amir, Gasol/Jordan and Valanciunas have and expect to keep them happy and on the team. You're asking for trouble.

    As for signing a young SF, it SEEMS like a good idea, but at what cost? You'll have to overpay him. That goes without saying. And none of those guys if good enough to be a franchise player, which is what the Raptors need more than anything. At best, a guy like Green or Young will become a borderline All-Star, although an overpaid one, and probably add a few more wins. Unfortunately this takes away what the Raptors need most, which is the best chance to get a high lottery pick in the next draft. And considering who's available, that player will most likely be a SF. So now what do you do? Do you try and trade your overpriced SF who you just signed the previous year, probably having to get either a bad contract or 50 cents on the dollar in return? If so, what exactly was the point in signing him in the first place.

    I just don't understand what the rush is all about. Why not wait until next summer or even later? The Raptors will be a more attractive destination with more talent and a brighter future, the front office will have A LOT better idea of what it is they need to take the next step, and will hopefully have the foundation of the team in place. Right now it's just throwing money at a bunch of embers hoping it starts a fire.
    Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
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    • #17
      ebrian wrote: View Post
      Doesn't that in turn mean that Memphis will grossly overpay him?
      Probably, but they have a lot more talent than the Raptors do. A playoff team overpaying a player is a lot better than a lottery team doing it.
      Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
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      • #18
        joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
        And as I stated earlier, with the new CBA likely to impede upon an Owners want to overpay players, it is likely that this year is the best time to be a Buyer.
        The new CBA will be in place before the team can sign anyone, so whether you do it this year or next, the rules will still be the same. You won't get an advantage doing it sooner than later.
        Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
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        • #19
          jrdyck wrote: View Post
          I'd rather have Wilson Chandler than Thad Young for the same amount of money... just a personal preference.
          If Chandler's ankles checked out, I'd agree.

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          • #20
            Tim W. wrote: View Post
            The new CBA will be in place before the team can sign anyone, so whether you do it this year or next, the rules will still be the same. You won't get an advantage doing it sooner than later.
            ...? "The new rules will be in place before you can sign anyone"... obviously. This was my point ... hence how the NEW rules would allow for cheaper Signing.
            The CBA evolves with the League Revenues year by year. By next year, Maximum Salaries will have already increased, as would the Incremental Pay Increases of Players already on Contract. So there are absolutely benefits to signing earlier.

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            • #21
              joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
              ...? "The new rules will be in place before you can sign anyone"... obviously. This was my point ... hence how the NEW rules would allow for cheaper Signing.
              The CBA evolves with the League Revenues year by year. By next year, Maximum Salaries will have already increased, as would the Incremental Pay Increases of Players already on Contract. So there are absolutely benefits to signing earlier.
              I don't follow you. We have no idea WHAT the new CBA will be like, but any increases in salaries will be marginal, and if they do increase, so will the cap, just like it has in the past. That's the whole idea. Besides, the Raptors will have less salary in the next offseason.

              But all that is probably the least reason not to sign someone this "summer". The other reasons I detailed are far better ones.
              Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
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              • #22
                Tim W. wrote: View Post
                Probably, but they have a lot more talent than the Raptors do. A playoff team overpaying a player is a lot better than a lottery team doing it.
                Sometimes I think before you reply, you need to look at the context. Read what I wrote and what I was responding to. It takes like 10 seconds.
                your pal,
                ebrian

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                • #23
                  ebrian wrote: View Post
                  Sometimes I think before you reply, you need to look at the context. Read what I wrote and what I was responding to. It takes like 10 seconds.
                  I did before I replied. Maybe next time you type something make sure it will be construed the way you want it to. It takes like 5 seconds.
                  Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
                  Follow me on Twitter.

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                  • #24
                    Ok, fair enough.
                    Yet it has been reported and documented that the Raptors are pursuing Free Agent Centers.

                    So obviously they are at least interested in looking into using Cap Space to sign someone.
                    Its clearly being discussed at the very least.

                    Whether or not you believe we should sign anyone at all, is a little different.
                    This is based off the fact that there is obvious Interest, and willingness, to use the Cap Space available to us to Sign a FA.

                    I'm not sure why signing a 23/24 year Old Small Forward/Center who has OBVIOUS potential to be great, would be a bad thing.
                    Yes, it hinders our chances of being horrible, and getting a draft pick ... that we would subsequently use to draft a young Small Forward / Center, who's potential and skillset are completely unproven.

                    Especially considering that we would potentially get him at Bargain price compared to what it might cost us down the line to acquire an equal talent, that will likely be 26-27 years old at the time of signing.

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                    • #25
                      As long as Val can be a player at the nba level (even if it takes a couple of seasons) we have a lot of value at the forward spots. If we buy into the touted belief that next years draft has more than its fair share of quality talent at the SF spot we are in much better shape NOT doing a whole lot this year.


                      PG: Bayless gets one year to show us that he can sustain his good play from the end of last season more consistently and be a starting point guard.
                      SG: Barbosa is on an expiring contract which could be shipped to a team that needs cap space during the season, or leaves cap space next summer if he's not traded. Weems has one year and europe to give his head a shake and we can probably sign him as a cheap back up to demar
                      SF: I just don't see the point of signing a SF. Kleiza is still healing and JJ showed decent chops. We are going to have lots of pieces that we can use in a TRADE in the next year or two, plus we can draft one next year as well.
                      Forwards: I'd put Davis and Amir up against any 2 man PF rotation in the league. Even if we don't have enough minutes for Amir Davis Bargs and Val whoever is the odd man out will be able to bring us return.

                      We have an expiring this year
                      an expiring next year
                      bayless has a 4 mill QO next year

                      we are in really good shape right now and signing a free agent, unless its somebody CHEAP just doesn't make a lot of sense. If our guys develop just a little bit more, which seems like a very reasonable expectation, we will be a much more attractive destination 2 years from now. We may have to overpay for a free agent but it makes more sense to wait a year or two so we have a better idea of where we need to spend.
                      "They're going to have to rename the whole conference after us: Toronto Raptors 2014-2015 Northern Conference Champions" ~ ezzbee Dec. 2014

                      "I guess I got a little carried away there" ~ ezzbee Apr. 2015

                      "We only have one rule on this team. What is that rule? E.L.E. That's right's, E.L.E, and what does E.L.E. stand for? EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY. Right there up on the wall, because this isn't just a basketball team, this is a lifestyle. ~ Jackie Moon

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                      • #26
                        joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
                        Ok, fair enough.
                        Yet it has been reported and documented that the Raptors are pursuing Free Agent Centers.

                        So obviously they are at least interested in looking into using Cap Space to sign someone.
                        Its clearly being discussed at the very least.

                        Whether or not you believe we should sign anyone at all, is a little different.
                        This is based off the fact that there is obvious Interest, and willingness, to use the Cap Space available to us to Sign a FA.

                        I'm not sure why signing a 23/24 year Old Small Forward/Center who has OBVIOUS potential to be great, would be a bad thing.
                        Yes, it hinders our chances of being horrible, and getting a draft pick ... that we would subsequently use to draft a young Small Forward / Center, who's potential and skillset are completely unproven.

                        Especially considering that we would potentially get him at Bargain price compared to what it might cost us down the line to acquire an equal talent, that will likely be 26-27 years old at the time of signing.
                        I think the Raptors most definitely need to look at free agent centers, or else either Davis, Amir or Alabi will be the starting center. I just don't think the Raptors should be looking at guys like Gasol or Jordan. If the Raptors can get a guy like Pryzbilla or Jeff Foster, then I that would be perfect. They are a stopgap solution at center until Valanciunas can start there, they won't cost a lot of money, and they won't demand a lot of minutes, so it won't be a problem at all moving them to the bench.

                        I think before any money is spent on free agents, though, the Raptors need to figure out what they can get for Bargnani. If they can get a draft pick for next year and a serviceable center, then they don't have to go out and get anyone. Thats money they can use later when it can be better spent.
                        Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
                        Follow me on Twitter.

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                        • #27
                          Tim W. wrote: View Post
                          I did before I replied. Maybe next time you type something make sure it will be construed the way you want it to. It takes like 5 seconds.
                          So you understood this time, right? Why make a post about it? A mistake is a mistake.. no need to be so petty.

                          I'd like us to sign a C for the next 3-4 years. A 4 year deal would be the most ideal -- 3 years of starting and then hopefully your guy takes over, and we have ourselves a nice expiring contract to work with. That would be the ideal situation. Younger the better if only because I don't want to put all my eggs in one basket in case JV is terrible, but if I'm wrong, then at least it's an expiring contract that other teams will actually be interested in acquiring (as opposed to a 36 year old Przybilla).

                          But absolutely agree on not overpaying for a guy. As much as I dislike the pick, we have to at least give the guy a shot and it makes no sense paying $10M for a player who is relegated to the bench like a Bargnani (who SHOULD be coming off the bench).
                          Last edited by ebrian; Tue Jul 12, 2011, 03:55 PM. Reason: Sigh..I can never spell Przybilla's last name correctly.
                          your pal,
                          ebrian

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                          • #28
                            ebrian wrote:
                            I'd like us to sign a C for the next 2-3 years. A 4 year deal would be the most ideal.
                            I'm not sure i agree. I think that a rotation of Bargs Amir Davis at 28-30 minutes a game with alabi getting 6-12 will be good enough to get us through next season (if there is one). If you add a Center how many minutes are you expecting to give him? I'd be okay with getting another body, and i agree that cheap value is better than expensive value at this point. But it would have to be with the understanding that they are behind bargs davis amir (and then val when he gets here) in terms of minutes. Not sure you can convince anyone decent to come here in that situation. I think we just need to add a body as insurance and length of contract doesn't need to be more than 1 w/ a team option for year 2.
                            "They're going to have to rename the whole conference after us: Toronto Raptors 2014-2015 Northern Conference Champions" ~ ezzbee Dec. 2014

                            "I guess I got a little carried away there" ~ ezzbee Apr. 2015

                            "We only have one rule on this team. What is that rule? E.L.E. That's right's, E.L.E, and what does E.L.E. stand for? EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY. Right there up on the wall, because this isn't just a basketball team, this is a lifestyle. ~ Jackie Moon

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                            • #29
                              Tim W. wrote: View Post
                              I think the Raptors most definitely need to look at free agent centers, or else either Davis, Amir or Alabi will be the starting center. I just don't think the Raptors should be looking at guys like Gasol or Jordan. If the Raptors can get a guy like Pryzbilla or Jeff Foster, then I that would be perfect. They are a stopgap solution at center until Valanciunas can start there, they won't cost a lot of money, and they won't demand a lot of minutes, so it won't be a problem at all moving them to the bench.
                              Pryzbilla or Jeff Foster..? I'm not even sure either Jeff Foster or JP count as a 'Stopgaps'.
                              They'll be 35 and 32 years old and played a combined 30 mins a game last year while Starting 12. Combined.

                              I'd rather just put Alabi in there and admit we're looking to Tank.

                              Tim W. wrote: View Post
                              I think before any money is spent on free agents, though, the Raptors need to figure out what they can get for Bargnani. If they can get a draft pick for next year and a serviceable center, then they don't have to go out and get anyone. Thats money they can use later when it can be better spent.
                              You think we can trade an Un-Servicable Center, for a Servicable Center AND a draft pick in one of the Top Drafts ever?

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                              • #30
                                At what position does this club say we are set with a championship caliber player and we have no need to trade or acquire a FA for that spot? There isn't one.
                                If the objective is to improve at every position there is no time like the present to get started and I would always acquire the best player available. That means better competition from within which is one of the keys to developing the potential in younger players.

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