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Sports Illustrated Top 20 Free Agents 2011: Raptors (Joeys) Likely Interest Level.

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  • #61
    Soft Euro wrote: View Post
    They really wanted to keep Collison (and in the playoffs i could see why). The 13 million was because Presti wanted to give him a new deal while not hurting them financially when they need to extend their young players. So he gave him a 6 million signing bonus and a frontloaded contract. Basically Collison got a new contract worth on average 4,5 million a year. That's 1,5 million less than the 4 years before 2011/12. If his salary is now around his marketvalue the 1,5 million more does not equal up to 'grossly overpaid'.
    You're right about Collison. I had thought the $13 million was a balloon payment at the end of his last contract, but it part of a signing bonus for the new one. Still, in his last contract he was paid $6 million a year for averaging 7 ppg and 6 rpg. It's still overpaid. And the Thunder were able to do that because they didn't have any big contracts on the team. They were able to work the deal like that because they had flexibility.
    Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
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    • #62
      joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
      So then, according to your plan, the only Way for us to get better is to acquire an All-Star through the draft ... but then we still don't have enough talent to be anything more than Mediocre. It's the same outcome. No?
      Ooo, unless we get TWO All-Stars in the draft. I get it now.
      Uh, no. If the Raptors get a top 5 pick in the upcoming draft, my hope is that they can get an elite talent- maybe Harrison Barnes or Michael Gilchrist. Then they can go out and get a free agent that year or next. What they need most is elite talent. They aren't going to get that from the free agent pool this year, that's for sure.

      joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
      Two years ago Chicago was a Borderline Playoff team, just barely making it in, with a bunch of Big, Bloated Contracts and ONE borderline All-Star.
      Now, even with having had those Brutal, Giant contracts, they are .. one of the best teams in the league.
      I obviously understand that having Derrick Rose is a bonus, but no one knew two years ago he was going to be the MVP.

      It IS possible to make the jump from Okay, to Good, to Great.
      There is NOT only one way to build a successful team.
      Multiple paths have been employed, and multiple paths have proven successful.

      I understand you have your opinion on which path is best, but that does not mean that is what the Raptors will end up doing.
      (Case in point, the article stating they are "Going Hard" after Chandler.)
      But the point is they HAD Derrick Rose AND Joakim Noah. Without Derrick Rose, who everyone knew was an elite talent when he was drafted, Chicago is a mediocre team, at best. Chicago's success hinges on Derrick Rose. Right now, Toronto's success hinges on DeMar DeRozan. And however much I like his potential, he's not likely going to be an elite talent.

      You CAN make the jump if you have elite talent. The Raptors have NO elite talent and there isn't any free agent they can sign this summer that would change that.
      Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
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      • #63
        Fully wrote: View Post
        Not necessarily. Memphis will offer him $47-50 million over four years without question. If the Raptors were to sign him to an offer sheet for let's say $55 million/4 years then the Grizz will probably bite the bullet and match that as well. Toronto would have to get into the neighbourhood of paying him $15 million per season if they want a legit chance of prying him away from Memphis and then we'd be paying franchise money to a player that's not at the "franchise" level. That's not a good thing.
        I think Memphis would match any offer given. He's only just finished his 3rd year in the league, so the maximum is $13,603,750 per year, with 10.5% increases from year to year. The Raptors would not offer that amount because they just drafted what they think is their future C for years to come.
        your pal,
        ebrian

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        • #64
          ebrian wrote: View Post
          I think Memphis would match any offer given. He's only just finished his 3rd year in the league, so the maximum is $13,603,750 per year, with 10.5% increases from year to year. The Raptors would not offer that amount because they just drafted what they think is their future C for years to come.
          Again, these numbers are for the OLD CBA.
          Not going to happen with the new one.

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          • #65
            True, but that's all I have to go by, and I don't think those numbers will change much. I don't think the MAX pay scale (which only applies to the first year of a contract) is one of the sticking points for this work stoppage, and if anything that 10.5% max raise will most likely decrease. (Don't quote me on this, I'm no expert.)

            Either way, Memphis will match every offer he gets, I'm 100% sure of this. It would be totally insane not to, especially after the playoff run they just had. I don't think we need to worry that we'll end up with Gasol.
            your pal,
            ebrian

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            • #66
              I don't think the Raptors should even consider getting into the free agency frenzy, even if there is a free-agency this year. Sign, evans and fill the rest of the roster with D-leaguers and admit that we're waiting for Big V and a high 2012 draft pick.

              It's no point trying to pretend otherwise.

              However, if they have to sign a free-agent go after one of the young 2/3 guards otherwise move on.

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              • #67
                SI.com Top 20 Big Men - Joeys Interest

                ‘MAX’ PLAYERS ($10 million-plus range)

                Tyson Chandler and David West should both garner big offers in free agency. (Chris Graythen/Getty Images)

                1. Nene - Too Expensive.
                Nene squeaks into the top spot because no other player on this list can touch his combination of size, scoring, athleticism and ability to contribute in several different ways on defense. He’s not a first option on offense, and he is not on Tyson Chandler’s level as a defensive game-changer, but he’s a legitimate B+/A- player on both ends. He can do just about everything on offense — run, shoot, pass, cut, score in the post and work the pick-and-roll. He’s not a back-to-the-basket beast or an isolation monster, but your offense flows when Nene is on the floor.

                2. Tyson Chandler - Likely too expensive.
                I came very close to slotting Chandler into the top spot even though he has no one-on-one post game or reliable jumper. (To be clear: Chandler has nice form on his shot and flashed a more reliable jumper this season, but he rarely uses it and the results are inconsistent when he does.)

                But Chandler is one of the franchise-changing big-man defenders, and he was the second-most important player during the Mavs’ championship run. He can protect the rim like any athletic 7-footer should be able to, but his ability to shift 20 feet out from the basket, crouch in a textbook defensive stance and slide side-to-side with some of the best ball-handlers in the world is pretty much unmatched. If he can stay healthy, Chandler is a prized asset.

                3. Marc Gasol (restricted) - Really expensive, but worth it. (In my opinion.)
                Gasol will probably never be the kind of game-changing defensive force Chandler is, but he’s a brute in the post, his numbers against the pick-and-roll are very good and he proved against the Thunder in the playoffs that he’s a heady defender capable of sliding out to disrupt perimeter shooters. (The Thunder helped, of course, by playing a gimpy Kendrick Perkins, the equivalent of going 4-on-5 on offense.)

                On offense, Gasol may very well emerge as a better player than Nene. He’s just as versatile with a more reliable shot and a strong back-to-the-basket game. If the new collective bargaining agreement maintains Bird Rights, at least for one summer, expect the Grizzlies to match any offer for Gasol.

                4. David West - Pass.
                At nearly 31, West is the oldest of the premiere big man free agents, and he is coming off massive knee surgery. But his game has never been about explosive athleticism, and it should age well, provided he recovers as expected from his gruesome injury. We know what West is: A pick-and-pop savant who knows his limitations, takes care of the ball, throws smart passes and generally helps on both ends. He’s a good defender and a decent rebounder.

                MID-LEVEL EXCEPTION TYPES, GIVE OR TAKE A MILLION OR TWO

                5. DeAndre Jordan (restricted) - Worth a look at the very least.
                You can say this is too high for Jordan, whose shooting range doesn’t even match the length of one of his arms, but this is a 22-year-old 7-footer with crazy athleticism and a commitment to the right things. He doesn’t force it on offense, and though he still goes for highlight-reel blocks too often, he works his tail off on defense. He ranks among the 100 best defenders on every play type Synergy Sports tracks, and he’s only to get better with seasoning. The Clippers rightly view Jordan as a building block, and it’s going to take a huge offer to pry him from Los Angeles.

                6. Glen Davis - Pass.
                He might be crazy, his offensive game is maddeningly inconsistent and he falls in love with his mid-range jumper, results be damned. But here’s the thing: We know with absolute certainty that Big Baby is a very, very good big-man defender capable of playing major minutes on a good team. His combination of bulk and quick feet is death for taller players in the post, and he has spent his entire career learning how to show on pick-and-rolls from the greatest pick-and-roll defender of all time. If Davis can find the right balance on offense between stretching the floor and banging inside, he’s a hugely helpful player.

                7. Thaddeus Young (restricted) - He's "a Big"? I disagree. SF through-and-through.
                Young would probably be a more glamorous catch than either of the two guys above him, with those quick scoring bursts, top-level athleticism and low-turnover efficiency. He also just turned 23 and improved his rebounding numbers last season, a huge thing for a Philly team that played him mostly as an under-sized (but ultra-quick) power forward.

                But the questions about his defense are serious. He’s often caught out of position, he has legitimate size issues against lots of power forwards and he has not shown he can credibly defend small forwards. Look for Philly to keep him at a reasonable price.

                8. Greg Oden (restricted) - Very expensive Qualifying offer.
                A little high? Sure. But taking a shot at Oden for the right price is a sounder move, depending on team context and the new CBA, than over-spending on proven mediocrities or other risky bets. We know what Oden can be.

                9. Carl Landry - Meh. If he comes cheap enough.
                Everyone keeps waiting for the Carl Landry breakout party to start, and the reality is that it will probably never come; Landry is almost 28, and he’s unlikely to develop into an average rebounder for his position. But he showed the kind of subtle improvements last season in New Orleans and Sacramento that will make him a very useful role player going forward. He worked well with Chris Paul, both off the ball and as a pick-and-roll partner, and his one-on-one defense from 10 feet and out can very good. (He gave Pau Gasol serious issues on both ends of the floor in the playoffs.)

                The limitations will always be here, but if Landry can hone that mid-range jumper into a more consistent weapon, he’ll be a very good get for someone.

                10. Samuel Dalembert - If he came with the right Attitude and the right Price.
                We’re thinking strictly short term here, since Dalembert just turned 30 and his feet already move with an old-man slowness. Those feet can be problematic when offenses drag Dalembert out of the paint on pick-and-roll plays, and he has never been an efficient offensive player (check out those turnover rates). But you can do worse than running Dalembert out there for 20 minutes and watching him block shots, snare offensive boards and frighten guards in the paint.

                11. Jeff Green (restricted) - Again. I see him more as a SF.
                Big name, overrated game. He’s a below-average shooter from just about everywhere on the court, and he was the common denominator in every bad, sieve-like Oklahoma City five-man unit. Not much changed in Boston, though Green shot the ball much better from the perimeter there.

                And that might be the key with Green: context and a smaller, backup role. He has usable range on that jumper, he can work in the post against inferior defenders and he could (if we’re being very optimistic) grow into at least an average defender in the right system. The Celtics have already offered Green the $5.9 million qualifying offer, meaning he’s a restricted free agent and could sign that one-year, $5.9 million deal the second free agency starts.

                Paying much more than that based on Green’s name reputation is a risk.

                12. Kris Humphries - Pass.
                Humphries breakout double-double season screams with cautionary notes. He played heavy minutes on a bad team, he played alongside a center who couldn’t rebound, and he remains a very shaky pick-and-roll defender and helper whose lack of speed can hurt on defense.

                Even so, Humphries has always been a decently productive per-minute player, and his one-on-one defense was surprisingly good. Just be careful about overpaying.

                13. Kenyon Martin - Pass.
                We’re starting to reach now. Martin is 33, and he goes through stretches where he’s such a non-threat to score that he becomes a liability. His defense, rebounding numbers and perimeter shooting have all dropped off, but you’d be happy next season if Martin were your third or fourth big man playing 15 or 20 minutes a game instead of 25 or 30. He plays smart on both ends and can defend a variety of players in a pinch — at least in short stretches.

                14. Spencer Hawes (restricted) - I'd take him. If the right price.
                The Sixers have tendered Hawes the required $4.05 million qualifying offer, so they’ll have the right to match any competing offer for him. Four years in, Hawes is still just about what he was when he started — a 7-footer who can hit a jump shot and toss gorgeous passes from the high post, but struggles to finish inside, rarely gets to the line and has trouble defending away from the basket in space.

                But at 23, that kind of package is still worth a look.

                THE MINIMUM, OR PERHAPS A BIT MORE

                15. Kwame Brown - Better than Dan Gadzuric.
                He’s a massive bust as a No. 1 pick, but if you ignore that history, you’re looking at a cheap option who put up an 8-7 line in just 26 minutes per game last season in Charlotte — and shot 52 percent from the floor. His range extends just beyond that of DeAndre Jordan’s, and he has never been a particularly clued-in defender. But he could work out well as a cheap option to round out your big man rotation.

                16. Chuck Hayes
                It’s fine if you think Hayes should be higher here. He’s a plus defender, even if he shouldn’t be guarding centers nearly as much as he had to in Houston, and his passing, cutting and ability to finish at the rim with a variety of subtle bank shots make him a more well-rounded player than he was early in his career.

                17. Joel Przybilla
                He’s 31 and health issues have sidelined him for most of the last two seasons, but if he’s healthy, Przybilla will bring stable defense and elite rebounding at both ends of the floor.

                18. Kurt Thomas - He's still alive??
                Thomas is the oldest player in the league, and it’s fair to question how many minutes he can give. But he logged 23 per game in 52 regular-season games with the Bulls last season, and he played outstanding defense both in those games and in the rare moments when Tom Thibodeau unleashed him in the post-season. That defense, plus his always-solid rebounding and mid-range shot, should make him valuable as one of those players who floats between the rotation and the bench.

                19. Shawne Williams - Nah. Pass.
                You could slot a dozen or so guys into these last few spots, but I’ll give one to Williams, if only because he showed last season that he can be a 40 percent three-point shooter at the power forward spot. That alone is valuable, provided you can hide him in the right defensive system. Williams at least looked like had an appetite for effort on defense last season, though he’s not a good rebounder and was often miscast as something of a “center” next to Amar’e Stoudemire. (Williams defended Dwight Howard for a few possessions. This happened.)

                He can sure hit that corner three, though.

                20. Jason Collins - Nope.
                Collins was 3-of-4 on long two-point jumpers in the playoffs! Maybe he can be a pick-and-pop threat! Just kidding. Collins has one reliable NBA skill — post defense — and I’ll give him this spot based on that one reliable skill over a higher-risk, higher-reward guy like Earl Clark, Dante Cunningham, Josh McRoberts (major defensive problems), the ever-intriguing Kyrylo Fesenko or the irresistible Craig Smith.
                Last edited by Joey; Tue Jul 19, 2011, 09:23 AM.

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                • #68
                  I think Spencer Hawes might be a nice pickup if we could get him for cheap. Would be a great backup once JV comes along, but has proven to be a capable Starter as well. And he's only 23.

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                  • #69
                    call me crazy but i want the raptors to take a shot at oden. If we can help him stay healthy then he could be a dominant Center, but then again we did draft Jonas V. If we do get him though and he does end up staying healthy he could start for 2 seasons until jonas V develops a bit and then play backup for JV.

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                    • #70
                      And the other problem with Oden is that Portland has already made an $11M qualifying offer on him. That means we'd have to pay at least $13-$15M, which he's definitely not worth, and which I'm not even sure the new CBA will allow.

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                      • #71
                        joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
                        And the other problem with Oden is that Portland has already made an $11M qualifying offer on him. That means we'd have to pay at least $13-$15M, which he's definitely not worth, and which I'm not even sure the new CBA will allow.
                        I believe the QO is for $8.8M. Regardless of nearly 9 or 11, it is too much money for him.

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                        • #72
                          Matt52 wrote: View Post
                          I believe the QO is for $8.8M. Regardless of nearly 9 or 11, it is too much money for him.
                          Touche, sir.

                          Not sure where I got $11M .. but yes, exactly. Regardless, its alot of invest on someone that is about as fragile as Mr. Glass.

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                          • #73
                            joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
                            Touche, sir.

                            Not sure where I got $11M .. but yes, exactly. Regardless, its alot of invest on someone that is about as fragile as Mr. Glass.
                            The other option for Portland assuming their are no other suitors would be to play out the QO. The risk of course would be he becomes an UFA.

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                            • #74
                              Matt52 wrote: View Post
                              The other option for Portland assuming their are no other suitors would be to play out the QO. The risk of course would be he becomes an UFA.
                              I was wondering if they would do this myself actually.
                              I can't see many teams making an offer with that kind of QO on the table.

                              I wonder if they would take the risk. But at the same time, I'm wondering if the new CBA will allow them to offer him anything more than the Qualifying Offer already on the table. Should prove to be interesting for suure.

                              I'm certainly intrigued by what a healthy Oden has to offer; but not sure he's worth Yogi Stewart kind of money, let alone $9M a year.

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                              • #75
                                why not trade bargnani and someone else to portland for Oden and their pick?

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