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If the Raps could waive one contract under a new CBA, who would it be?

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  • #16
    Tim W. wrote: View Post
    I already said I wouldn't waive him, but the guy will be making $12 million in the last year of his contract in 4 years. This despite the fact that the only thing he's not poor at is scoring. Because he's such a poor defender and rebounder, he's simply not a good player, overall, which is why he generally gets killed on advanced stats. And his scoring isn't as impressive as it seems on the surface. If it turns out the Raptors would have to take a bad contract in return for him, I'd dump him.

    Of course, you want to dump Calderon, who has half the length of contract and is more productive than Bargnani. That makes about as much sense as dumping Bargnani.
    Bargnani was top 16 in the league last year in scoring. I'd say that is pretty good, wouldn't you? Also all I have heard from the bloggers is we need a pass first point guard, who gets his teammates involved. What do you guys think Calderon is? He is 5th in the league in assists last year and second in assist to turnover? Look how awful Rose played in the playoffs turning the ball and trying to go one on five every possession. I know that he is a very talented player and scorer, but do you really want a turnover prone ball hog running your offense?

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    • #17
      Actually I think the correct answer is Tim's answer of picking no one.. We're well under the cap so we don't really need to take advantage of this proposed amnesty clause. Besides, you still have to pay the guy he's just not counted in the cap. Kleiza not a huge hit.. he's only making, what, $4.5M per? And the only options we have at SF are him and James Johnson.

      But if we HAD to pick someone since this thread is all hypothetical, I'd go with Bargs and Kleiza next. Just in case. Considering many of you picked Kleiza.. my hypothesis is that if we trade Bargs, we'll end up with two more Kleiza-like contracts (and Kleiza-like players).
      Last edited by ebrian; Thu Jul 14th, 2011, 01:16 PM.
      your pal,
      ebrian

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      • #18
        GarbageTime wrote: View Post
        Jose would either be an expiring contract or 2 years left on his contract. Thats very manageable. At the very least he is a useful peice, a team player and provides leadership. I could see him being a great addition for a team wanting to contend (backup in OKC, Atlanta, Orlando, LA etc)
        I think we need to hang on to Calderon. The burn of his big contract will be gone after this year, and then he'll be seen as 10 mil of cap space. On top of that, the argument that he'd be a good fit for a contender is true, so why can't that be Toronto? In two years we'll be in good shape with a talented young roster having developed, some new top tier rookies brought in and potentially a great free agent pulled in by the potential of our young team. I'd be thrilled if Calderon stuck around and took a big pay-cut to be our backup point guard. He's a character guy and I think he'd consider leaving dollars on the table elsewhere to stay here.

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        • #19
          I'd be in the same boat as Tim with not waiving anyone on the current roster. If I had to pick one it would be Kleiza but only after getting feed back on his recovery/progress. He wasn't healthy all year and we didn't get a chance to see his at 100%. His contract isn't big enough to be considered a burden and if he can come back healthy is young enough to stay in the rebuild while offering a different dimension then anyone else on the team.

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          • #20
            CT2010 wrote: View Post
            Bargnani was top 16 in the league last year in scoring. I'd say that is pretty good, wouldn't you? Also all I have heard from the bloggers is we need a pass first point guard, who gets his teammates involved. What do you guys think Calderon is? He is 5th in the league in assists last year and second in assist to turnover? Look how awful Rose played in the playoffs turning the ball and trying to go one on five every possession. I know that he is a very talented player and scorer, but do you really want a turnover prone ball hog running your offense?
            Bargnani was 16th in the league in scoring, but two years ago Corey Maggette was 17th in scoring, three years ago Devin Harris was 15th in scoring, four years ago Maggette was 11th in scoring, five years ago Ben Gordon was 15th in scoring, six years ago Mike James was 20th in scoring...

            Get my point? Maggette is a very good scorer, but is such a poor defender that the only year his team made the playoffs was when he missed the majority of the season with injury. Devin Harris has only scored more than 16.9 ppg once in his career when he scored 21.3 ppg the year the Nets won 34 games. Ben Gordon actually did score well on a playoff team, but has been ineffective in Detroit. And I think everyone here knows all about Mike James.

            Bargnani is most certainly a very good scorer. But that alone doesn't make him a valuable player. In fact, his lack of defense and rebounding, especially for a big man, ends up making him a detriment to the team, most of the time. And the advanced stats show that. That's why simply looking at the box score doesn't exactly tell you everything. Because if that was the case then Corey Maggette would be a perennial All-Star.
            Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
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            • #21
              The only point to using an amnesty is to: get below the cap and/or free up space to sign other FAs. I don't think the latter makes any sense in Toronto. Now, if the NBA ends up with a hard cap in the $45mm range you may need to buyout someone to get under that total in order to field a roster. In that scenario, it's most likely a big salary like Calderon who gets the nod and I don't think it's by choice but by necessity.

              Not sure paying Calderon ~$20mm just to turn around and pay $20mm for 2 average players makes any sense for the Raptors.

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              • #22
                slaw wrote: View Post
                The only point to using an amnesty is to: get below the cap and/or free up space to sign other FAs. I don't think the latter makes any sense in Toronto. Now, if the NBA ends up with a hard cap in the $45mm range you may need to buyout someone to get under that total in order to field a roster. In that scenario, it's most likely a big salary like Calderon who gets the nod and I don't think it's by choice but by necessity.

                Not sure paying Calderon ~$20mm just to turn around and pay $20mm for 2 average players makes any sense for the Raptors.
                Not sure about anyone else's thinking on Calderon, but mine was not about next year for free agents - it was the year after.

                Let Bayless start and see what he is capable of. He showed flashes of brilliance when given an opportunity to start. Is he going to be given an extension? Is he part of the future of this team?

                Let ED, DD, JJ, Alabi develop and show what they are capable of along with Bayless.

                Get another very high draft pick.

                Then next summer, Toronto might be an attractive destination for a free agent with a team already (hopefully) loaded with young, emerging talent.

                Ideally, I'd like to trade Calderon but I'm assuming he doesn't return much of value given his contract.

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                • #23
                  Matt52 wrote: View Post
                  Not sure about anyone else's thinking on Calderon, but mine was not about next year for free agents - it was the year after.

                  Let Bayless start and see what he is capable of. He showed flashes of brilliance when given an opportunity to start. Is he going to be given an extension? Is he part of the future of this team?

                  Let ED, DD, JJ, Alabi develop and show what they are capable of along with Bayless.

                  Get another very high draft pick.

                  Then next summer, Toronto might be an attractive destination for a free agent with a team already (hopefully) loaded with young, emerging talent.

                  Ideally, I'd like to trade Calderon but I'm assuming he doesn't return much of value given his contract.
                  If it was any other position, I'd agree with you. But my issue is that if Bayless turns out not to be a good distributor, it will end up hurting the development of everyone else on the team. We already know that Calderon can run an offense and get the ball where it needs to go. If Bayless turns out to be another Mike James, that's going to mean guys like DeRozan, Amir and Davis are not going to develop offensively nearly as much as they would with Calderon running the point. I say keep them both and continue to give Bayless lots of minutes to see what he can do.
                  Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
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                  • #24
                    Tim W. wrote: View Post
                    If it was any other position, I'd agree with you. But my issue is that if Bayless turns out not to be a good distributor, it will end up hurting the development of everyone else on the team. We already know that Calderon can run an offense and get the ball where it needs to go. If Bayless turns out to be another Mike James, that's going to mean guys like DeRozan, Amir and Davis are not going to develop offensively nearly as much as they would with Calderon running the point. I say keep them both and continue to give Bayless lots of minutes to see what he can do.
                    I'm ebrian, and I endorse this post.
                    your pal,
                    ebrian

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                    • #25
                      Nobody ..... Nobody ..... Nobody

                      .
                      Such a scenario - waiving one contract - would not benefit the Raptors. There are only 4 players in this category, that are really worth considering. With none of the contracts being an albatross, the odds are even greater that Raptors see no benefit in a (potential) CBA amnesty.
                      • Bargnani - He has the biggest contract, but like Apollo says, it's not a bad contract. Sometimes the hate around here is distorting reality for some fans - even the ones with reputable BBall IQs.
                        .
                      • Calderon - His contract would be the hardest to move, based on ROI (return on investment). But with only 2 years left, I can imagine Jose staying on with the Raptors. In the last year of his contract, Jose could become a valuable trading asset, if we so desired to go that route. But assuming he still loves it here, Jose would make the perfect back-up PG. A quality back-up who can start ANYTIME. A mentor for a young PG draft pick. And a new contract that is more in keeping with what he brings to the table.
                        .
                      • Kleiza - His recovery is the key to his future ... as Masters of the Obvious would say. But ... I have my doubts that Linus's career will come to an end (from this particular injury). His salary is not excessive, and if he should be required (in the future) to retire, the injury exemption would still provide some remedy. For the most part, the new CBA will occur before any relevant decision can be made on going forward with Kleiza, or not.
                        .
                      • Barbosa - His contract could be an ideal asset at the trade deadline. Using a potential exemption that may come about, strikes me as a terrible idea.


                      In the end, nobody is worth moving. If anything, this would be the case where the Raptors get no benefit, as seems to be the reality too often.
                      .

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                      • #26
                        One positive about the lockout is that it lessens the impact of Kleiza's injury should it extend to the January 2012 deadline. I still think he would be the guy to go though.

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