I'm with Tim on this one.
Amir/Ed/Jonas as a 3 man rotation is far more conducive to winning, than Andrea/Ed/Jonas. In my opinion anyway.
What Bargnani would bring on the offensive side would be given right back to the other team, with his indifference to playing any type of Team Defense.
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CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View PostI guess for me I would hope there is a playoff team that wants to add an impact player / backup PF, who can be a spark for the 2nd unit and help push the starters. He's a player fans love and could give a middle-of-the-pack and/or aging playoff team the boost they need. On his own, or with another player and/or maybe a 2nd-round draft pick, I would be happy if the Raps were able to get another 1st-round pick back in return, even one in the 15-30 range given how strong next year's draft is supposed to be.
I personlly would be fine with Davis/Bargnani @ PF moving forward, if moving Amir nets the team another 1st round pick (or a good young unproven player with significant upside). Either way, the Raps trade talent from a position of strength/depth (PF) to help them add yet another good young core piece, but at another position.
I agree that I wouldn't give him away, just as I wouldn't trade away any other player without getting something useful/equal back in return.
And the fact that you'd trade Amir over Bargnani means we are lightyears apart. If I'm in charge of the Raptors, I'm looking to build a Championship team, and that means keeping Championship calibre players and trading away those that don't make the cut. Championship calibre players have intangibles that help you win. They're willing to do the dirty work, even if they're All-Stars. Amir is a Championship calibre player. Bargnani is not. Not when he isn't interested in defense or rebounding. Not when his dedication is questioned. It constantly astounds me that people continue to overlook this because he can put the ball in the basket.
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Tim W. wrote: View PostWhile I understand giving up talent to get talent, the problem with trading Amir is that his trade value probably doesn't equal his impact on the game. He doesn't have much of an offense, has no extraordinary aspect of his game, and seems more suited to a bench role because he's a high energy player. Yet he's got a more positive impact when he's in the game than players of similar production.
Now if trading Amir will bring in a perennial All-Star, then obviously you've got to think about that. But, to me, Amir is a piece you want to keep because I can see him being a contributor to a Championship. Considering he's only one of 3 or 4 guys on the roster I see in that position, I'm not sure how trading him is best for the team.
I personlly would be fine with Davis/Bargnani @ PF moving forward, if moving Amir nets the team another 1st round pick (or a good young unproven player with significant upside). Either way, the Raps trade talent from a position of strength/depth (PF) to help them add yet another good young core piece, but at another position.
I agree that I wouldn't give him away, just as I wouldn't trade away any other player without getting something useful/equal back in return.
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While I understand giving up talent to get talent, the problem with trading Amir is that his trade value probably doesn't equal his impact on the game. He doesn't have much of an offense, has no extraordinary aspect of his game, and seems more suited to a bench role because he's a high energy player. Yet he's got a more positive impact when he's in the game than players of similar production.
Now if trading Amir will bring in a perennial All-Star, then obviously you've got to think about that. But, to me, Amir is a piece you want to keep because I can see him being a contributor to a Championship. Considering he's only one of 3 or 4 guys on the roster I see in that position, I'm not sure how trading him is best for the team.
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Ambidextrious wrote: View PostI like Amir because he is playing with a chip on his shoulder. He's got the physical and mental toughness that will take you a long way in the NBA. He has shown to be patient and humble. Amir knows his role and he excels at what he does best. He plays within himself and hardly forces plays. Speaking of plays he rarely has any called out for him but he is still highly productive (14.64 efficiency down a bit from 2009-2010).
He plays with unparalleled energy and enthusiasm. Sometimes it doesn't matter how many points you drop (Andrea). What really counts are the intangibles (Amir). I feel that the people who want to trade him are completely clueless.
For me, the only reason I would ever contemplate trading him is because in any deal, you have to give up talent to get talent. The Raptors are a team with lots of holes and the one position they are deep at in quality players is PF - Amir, Davis and Bargnani. I think Davis is going the be the best of the bunch on both ends of the court, plus he is young and under rookie contract, meaning he shouldn't go anywhere. Bargnani is one-dimensional and there are arguments against his efficiency at that one positive dimension (scoring), plus he's making over $10M per season, meaning I'm doubtful the Raptors would get good value back in a Bargnani deal. That leaves us with Amir. The positives have been spoken about already, which is why I think he is the best PF trade chip the Raptors have, to enable them to go out and make a deal to address other hole(s) in their roster for the long-term - be it player(s) and/or draft pick(s) coming back.
So please don't paint anybody who entertains the option of trading Amir with your "clueless" brush. Please also don't assume that the rationale behind trading Amir is simply because those people think he has a bad contract, or isn't a good player/person or has a hardon for other more controversial players. The idea that Amir has the most trade value among the Raptor PFs should actually speak volumes about the type of player and person he is... that's why other teams would be expected to value him as a player they can utilize now, thereby giving up good young assets to help the Raptors address team needs at other positions for the future.
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Tim W. wrote: View PostActually, it's not bad in any way shape or form. Most of the criticism was based on incorrect numbers. He's making less than the MLE, and he's one of the more productive big men in the league.
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joey_hesketh wrote: View Post"I am also a Torontonian."
Oh Amir, you know just what to say to get in our pants.
And what the hell, his contract is NOT that bad guys.
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Yeah that part stood out for me too. "I am also a Torontonian." What a class act. Gotta love that. I have to agree his contract is not that bad. At the time of signing it might not have look like the best deal. I think BC used a fair bit of foresight when making him that offer. Hes still young with a high upside and potential. He just needs the minutes and plays run for him.
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joey_hesketh wrote: View Post"I am also a Torontonian."
Oh Amir, you know what to say to get in our pants.
And what the hell, his contract is NOT that bad guys.
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Here is a good read on Amir Johnson from our very own Arsenalist. It was exactly a year and one day ago he wrote this but its still a good article.
http://raptorsrepublic.com/2010/08/2...is-surprising/
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Tim W. wrote: View PostI realized one of the reasons I like Amir so much (apart from the fact that he's very productive and has a positive effect on the floor, is that he's exactly the type of player I love playing with. He hustles all the time, is always moving to the basket for a pass, never gives up on a play and makes PGs look good. It's also one reason I HATE any discussion about trading him. Guys like him are far more difficult to find than people seem to think. And they're far more conducive to winning, too.
He plays with unparalleled energy and enthusiasm. Sometimes it doesn't matter how many points you drop (Andrea). What really counts are the intangibles (Amir). I feel that the people who want to trade him are completely clueless.Last edited by Ambidextrious; Sun Aug 21, 2011, 12:40 AM.
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I realized one of the reasons I like Amir so much (apart from the fact that he's very productive and has a positive effect on the floor, is that he's exactly the type of player I love playing with. He hustles all the time, is always moving to the basket for a pass, never gives up on a play and makes PGs look good. It's also one reason I HATE any discussion about trading him. Guys like him are far more difficult to find than people seem to think. And they're far more conducive to winning, too.
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Yeah I gotta agree with you on everything you said. His contract seems to be the only problem. You can't blame the guy, anyone in their sane mind would take the money and run. I think he is a good player but his contract is still a bit pricey. I Blame BC on that one
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i like Amir hes a hard worker... he never gives up on a play.. and hes willing to come off the bench if it makes the team better.. cant ask for much more. i wouldnt over pay to keep him though.
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