So Adleman Picked the Wolves?!

[Joey]

joey is the new multi.

I like to think I bring a much more mature, refined and respectable debate to the table.

[heinz57]

I like to think I bring a much more mature, refined and respectable debate to the table.

lol... i know man... i was moreso referring to you being tim's nemesis. not a direct comparison

[Joey]

lol... i know man... i was moreso referring to you being tim's nemesis. not a direct comparison

Oh I know, don't worry man. I know you wouldn't say something as mean-hearted as that. hahah



Beasley is BIGGY! FTW

[JoePanini]

You quote me, and yet leave out the part in which I try to summarize my entire argument ... awesome.
Love when that happens.

I've watched Beasley play on a number of occasions. But can't say I've much 'Flashy Dunks', or 'Teen Drama' on the court from him. However, you speak like you watched every Timberwolves game last year; so clearly I don't stand a shot.
Especially when you pick and choose which of my points to address; and leave the other ones, in which you don't have a response to, in limbo.

Again, I'm NOT saying he's an All-Star and is amazing, and should be Top-20 in the League.
I'm not. I never have.
If you would have carried over my summary, or even just read my first post on the subject, you would have noticed that I'm merely trying to understand how Williams makes it onto the list, and Beasley does not, when Beasley had a far more impressive Collegiate Career.

Which at this point, is the ONLY basis of comparison between the two.

Oh oops, that was an honest mistake. I was wondering what you meant by cutting out your main point, I kept re-reading. Then I realized it wasn't in the quote in my reply. My bad.

On that, I never said Williams will even be a star. Beasley has shown what he can do, thus he's not a promising player. We all know what he can do, and probably will do for his entire career, and he might even do it well. But all he can do is score, and this we all know. On the other hand, Williams is more unknown, and seems like a better overall player. This is obviously speculation, but that's why a player is labelled "promising". Either a player who has improved gradually every year (not Beasley), a player who shown signs of brilliance but was never given the minutes or the ball (not Beasley) or a player who is still unknown NBA wise, and seems like he could be an exciting and good player. That's what Williams is, I never even said he was better than Beasley, but he is definitely more promising (which is how we started this whole debate, as I left Beasley out in my list of promising young talents) and has the potential to be a far better player than Beasley.

And your only point, as you even said was their college stats. Derrick Rose, who went no.1, and is the current NBA MVP, didn't have anywhere near the "great" stats Beasley had. Stats don't mean that much, what you bring to the table, how many games you win for your team. Effort you put in, the impact you have when you're on the court. Beasley bring offensive force, but he lacks in every other part of his game and is a liability on the defensive end.

And, honestly. I'm not sure what this discussion is really about. Because I don't get your stance on Beasley. Initially it seemed like you thought he was gonna be pretty great and you were pretty confident he would be (your first post). Then the discussion went on and you then said that you never said he'd be great or anything, just that you thought it was unfair that Williams made the list and Beasley didn't. But in the first post you say that "Michael Beasley may be a bit of a head case, but when he pays off (and he will), I'm curious to see how many 'haters' change their tone", suggesting he WILL pay off? And also I think comparing Beasley to Durant, Melo and LeBron whilst saying their stats are pretty similar and all is saying Beasley is a pretty great player.

Either way, I still wouldn't think Beasley is a part of Minnesota going forward, and I'd definitely put my money on Williams over Beasley.

[Tim W.]

You're turning this around from you saying Derrick Williams is going to be an "All World Scorer", and having nothing to back it up except "he appears to have the skills".



What? He grabbed 6.4rpg as a freshman in College Tim? Are you serious? So we're talking about different people then. (Are you even bothering to put together a decent argument?)
Because the guy I'm talking about grabbed 12.4 rebounds per game as a Freshman at Kansas State.
Geezus Tim. I've said that like 15 times.
He grabbed 6.4rpg as a sophomore in the NBA. Which I've also already said.
(I really hate having to repeat myself in arguments. Its annoying and just shows the other guy isn't bothering to listen to your arguments and is only concerned with proving his point. Especially in type, when you can easily just go back and read what I've clearly already stated.)
And once again, how is grabbing 5.6 boards per game below average when I just showed that some of the top SFs in the game grab about 1.5 more per game, and NONE have Kevin Love on the team. Explain to me how that is 'below average'. Please. Or ignore this point like you've done with many others.

Anyway once again, I'm done with this. I'd rather you not respond to this.
You're clearly missing my point, or just completely avoiding it.
Either way, once again as you always do, you've duked and dodged until you've managed to pick and choose which points you milk to death, without actually addressing my initial criticism. Well done, sir.

(Also quite impressive how you somehow managed to bring up Bargnani in a conversation about Small Forwards. But then again, did I really expect you not to turn this into a Bargnani conversation?)

And my thoughts on Bargnani are actually about the same on Beasley, you're right.
With a little more effort and a little more focus, they can both be very special players.
The difference being is that Beasley is doing all of this while still being only 22 years of age.

I DO understand your point. But you're in fact trying to put words in my mouth. I've NEVER said that Derrick Williams will be an All-World scorer. Never. Not once. Yet you've claimed twice that I have. What I've said is that he is POTENTIALLY an All-World scorer. HUGE difference. MASSIVE ONE. And why do I think that? Well, it could be because that's what his biggest strength is. Scoring. He's an incredibly efficient scorer who has the ability to score from anywhere on the court. And, again, this is obviously in college, which is all we have to base our opinions on. With Beasley, bringing up college stats is pointless because he's already played in the NBA for 3 years.

Beasley had the potential to be an All-World scorer coming out of college, but after 3 years in the NBA, it's clear he no longer has that potential. He just isn't an efficient enough scorer. Whether he's 22 or 25, 3 years in the NBA, playing the number of minutes he has, tells me he simply isn't going to become the player some hoped he'd be (including me).

As for the rebounding, I apologize as I misunderstood what you said. I thought you were talking about Beasley's college rebounding numbers. And yes, he did grab 6.4 rpg in his second year, but that was playing PF. Not good numbers for that position. At the SF position he puts up decent numbers, but not good. And not for his size and ability. And I don't care if he plays with Kevin Love or not. There are still plenty of rebounds available. It's the same excuse people used with Bargnani, and it doesn't work.

And yes, I brought up Bargnani and I think it's obvious why. Because they are incredibly similar players and you were using many of the same arguments. And yes, with focus and dedication, both of them could be All-Stars. And you could have said the same about hundreds of other players with loads of abilities. Unfortunately the skill they both lack, and one that people seem to continually undervalue, is desire. It's not generally a skill you can simply learn. It's the difference between Michael Jordan and Vince Carter. Or Dwight Howard and Eddy Curry. It's one reason I'm so high on Valanciunas. Without desire, skills don't mean squat.

That's MY point.

[Joey]

And yes, I brought up Bargnani and I think it's obvious why. Because they are incredibly similar players and you were using many of the same arguments. And yes, with focus and dedication, both of them could be All-Stars. And you could have said the same about hundreds of other players with loads of abilities. Unfortunately the skill they both lack, and one that people seem to continually undervalue, is desire. It's not generally a skill you can simply learn. It's the difference between Michael Jordan and Vince Carter. Or Dwight Howard and Eddy Curry. It's one reason I'm so high on Valanciunas. Without desire, skills don't mean squat.

That's MY point.

I actually fully agree with this last part.

And I guess this is ultimately where our debate lies.
I think he will 'get it together' and smarten up.
You don't. That's totally fair. There is likely more evidence to condemn my point, then support it.
I just think the guy gets shit all over alot (not by you), and I think some of it (not all) is a little uncalled for and perhaps unfounded. The guy can play basketball. Whether or not he makes the jump, is speculation and ultimately comes down to opinion.

He hasn't necessarily given me cause to believe what I do, so I guess I may be reaching in my point of view, but I also think you may have been reaching with saying that about Derrick Williams as well.

I just figure with skills like him and being only 22, he HAS to get it; else risk me coming after him for wasting what could be a VERY fulfilling career. Haha


And again, I wasn't trying to make it seem like Beasley is next Great SF in the NBA. I understand how that would have been misinterpreted, and I apologize if I gave off the wrong impression. Just simply trying to defend a guy that I believe to have the skills necessary to become a VERY good player. Whether or not he takes advantage of them is up in the air.

I think we can agree at this point, that he is a very talented player; however, we can agree to disagree on where we see his career going.

Good debate Tim & JoeP. Sorry if I got a little heated there.

[footarez]

That was a good debate. I share your opinion about Beasley joey_hesketh.As for the actual topic...I am very surprised Adelman was offered such deal and of course he would take it. However I don't see Minny being that promising for now. Just too many unproven players are on that team(yes I know - similar to our situation but I am very familiar with our guys and we do read and analyze every day.) Anyway I am confident for now with our selection for head coach. I really hoped we could get Adelman when the summer started because he is one of my all time favorite coaches. I think ALL his teams overachieved.