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Who, if anyone, to cut given an Amnesty Clause?

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  • Who, if anyone, to cut given an Amnesty Clause?

    http://www.thecheapseats.ca/2011/09/...-fortunes.html

    Jose Calderon
    Owed $9.8-million in 2011-2012, $20.3-million over the next two years
    Leandro Barbosa
    Owed $7.6-million in 2011-2012, the final year of his contract
    Amir Johnson
    Owed $5.5-million in 2011-2012, $18-million guaranteed over the next three years, $7-million unguaranteed in 2014-2015
    Linas Kleiza
    Owed $4.6-million in 2011-2012, $13.8-million over the next three years
    The option they do not discuss is Andrea Bargnani who is owed $42M over the next 4 seasons (2011-12 included).

    Everyone else are on rookie deals (DD, ED, JJ, Solo, Bayless).


    Who would you cut, if anyone?
    27
    Calderon
    22.22%
    6
    Barbosa
    0.00%
    0
    Amir
    3.70%
    1
    Barbosa
    0.00%
    0
    Bargnani
    18.52%
    5
    No one
    55.56%
    15

  • #2
    I would lean towards no one.

    This assumes Calderon CAN be traded. If there is no trade available that makes the Raptors better, I would cut him.

    The main reason would be having his salary off the books for the summer of 2012. Without his contract and the addition of JV and another high draft pick in addition to what is already on the roster, the Raptors could be major players on the 2012 free agent scene that includes a top PG like Russell Westbrook who will be just turning 24 at the start of the 2012-13 season.

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    • #3
      Sorry, but what idiot picked Amir? He's got the best non-rookie contract on the entire team!

      I agree with Matt about cutting no one. The Raptors don't need the cap room, yet, and they'll have one of the lower payrolls in the league anyway. I don't see the point in getting rid of what little talent the Raptors already have. They need to add talent, not get rid of it.
      Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
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      • #4
        I could maybe see it being used on Kleiza, there is a big question mark as to how well he will play coming back from injury. He has a player option in 2013/14 that I would not like to see exercised if he is a shell of his former self...that being said I am hoping the guy comes back ready to ball.
        Twitter @WJ_FINDLAY

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        • #5
          Matt52 wrote: View Post
          I would lean towards no one.

          This assumes Calderon CAN be traded. If there is no trade available that makes the Raptors better, I would cut him.

          The main reason would be having his salary off the books for the summer of 2012. Without his contract and the addition of JV and another high draft pick in addition to what is already on the roster, the Raptors could be major players on the 2012 free agent scene that includes a top PG like Russell Westbrook who will be just turning 24 at the start of the 2012-13 season.
          If I understand this clause correctly, it is a straight cut with nothing in return. Unless you are a team that is way over the luxury tax, does it even make sense to cut someone and get nothing in return but cap space?

          As for Jose, he has been discussed in a few forums lately and I have to agree with Tim on his view that Jose is a valuable piece for the Raptors. He is one of the best offensive point guards in the league and I do not see him as a defensive liability. I don't feel he is as poor a defender as he is made out to be. ALL point guards in the league get beaten regularly it is the toughest position to defend. If the defensive support of the back court was better he would not look nearly as exposed.

          Comment


          • #6
            CT2010 wrote: View Post
            If I understand this clause correctly, it is a straight cut with nothing in return. Unless you are a team that is way over the luxury tax, does it even make sense to cut someone and get nothing in return but cap space?

            As for Jose, he has been discussed in a few forums lately and I have to agree with Tim on his view that Jose is a valuable piece for the Raptors. He is one of the best offensive point guards in the league and I do not see him as a defensive liability. I don't feel he is as poor a defender as he is made out to be. ALL point guards in the league get beaten regularly it is the toughest position to defend. If the defensive support of the back court was better he would not look nearly as exposed.
            The clause will provide salary cap space. That is not needed for the Raptors in 2011-12 however it could be very important in the summer of 2012 - which is the foundation for suggesting buying out Calderon. Your second paragraph is all opinion, which you are entitled to, and most of it I would consider to be factual. The problem is Jose is not worth $10.5M in 2012-13 no matter what, in my opinion, given his talent, age, injury history, and insistence on representing Spain every summer.

            As I said in my post which you quoted, if he can be traded and the team is made better - great, do not buy him out, trade him. However, having his contract on the books for the summer of 2012 would not be a good thing, in my opinion. Subtract Calderon and the Raptors have a payroll of $29M (plus JV, plus 2012 pick(s)). OKC will have a payroll of $44.5M not including Westbrook. They will also have Harden and Ibaka up for extensions in the summer of 2013. They also have a very good young PG currently sitting on the bench in Eric Maynor.

            If, and it is definitely a big if, Toronto were able to come along and offer a max contract to Westbrook, I think they could have a shot at landing him. With him being 24 one month after 2012-13 starts he is young enough to lead and grow with the team. The allure of being Batman versus Robin may also entice him. Having a back court mate like DD, a wing such as Miller or Barnes, and a rotation of bigs like Toronto currently has may also be appealing. Toronto might also be in a situation where they could draft Andre Drummond or Anthony Davis and be in a situation where Ed Davis might return another high draft pick. Who knows what could happen with a little luck.

            The bottom line for me is the Raptors, with a little long-time-coming luck, might be one of the most desirable places for a top free agent to land in less than a year. Having Calderon tying up $10.5M of precious cap space might not make it possible.

            For what it is worth, I do not buy the argument players do not want to play here. Money and a chance to win.

            Comment


            • #7
              No one. Looks like there wont be a season so next season Calderon will be in the final year of his deal and will have some value as an expiring. The only person I would consider is Bargnani but even he has a good contract for his worth. I would only pull the trigger on him if he is no longer part of the teams future plans and if we can't find any good trades.

              Comment


              • #8
                I wouldn't do it to Calderon, since he only has two years left and still can be very productive coming off the bench (the problem is that we don't bring off of the bench, and when we do it's all like "He's back! Start him again"). Also, who the hell wouldn't want Calderon when he's an expiring contract? He's been declining pretty fast, but ehh...

                Using it on Amir would be ineffably stupid.

                Klezia been completely terrible, and is coming off a serious injury and consequential surgery...but that such a small contract to use it on. He was quite a productive bench player during his time in Denver too...

                Bargnani's one of the least productive players in the league, and we have cheaper, younger and far more productive players behind him in the depth chart. His contract could be the real albatross depending on the new CBA. But with him starting taking the same amount of shots, we're a lock for another bottom 5 finish. And we need that centerpiece via the draft. If/when Casey isn't able to get through to him, his trade value could completely plummet, assuming that we also grab a stop gap C, but that shouldn't be a problem if the team isn't stupid enough to give him 3 months, especially since they're apparently not ignoring advanced stats anymore. Move him by Xmas (assuming the season starts normally lolololol...) and we can still get something decent.

                I choose...Klezia, if we have to do it. I'd be perfectly fine doing nothing, tbh. It should be Bargnani, but we need him to command the tank this season, whenever the hell that will be.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I did forget about Kleiza, which you have to think about. He's still got 3 more years left and if he struggles with his health, then you're not going to want his salary taking up room and him taking up a roster spot. I still probably would go with no one, but if a decision was made that someone needed to be cut, I'd do Kleiza.

                  As for Calderon, Matt and I have had this discussion before. I don't think Calderon's contract is that much of a problem because I look at it as a placeholder for DeRozan's next contract. I don't think Calderon's contract will prevent the team from signing who they want (if they do decide to), and he helps the other players develop offensively, so I think he's valuable to the team. With Bayless running the show, the other players probably won't be getting the ball a) as much and b) in as good a scoring position as Calderon gives it. So their offensive development might suffer a little.

                  Calderon and Kleiza should be the only ones even in the conversation because I don't see it being that difficult to move anyone else and get value in return, so why cut them.
                  Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
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                  • #10
                    No question in my mind its Bargnani. I'd say wait until the last minute to see if there is any trade possible, but if not see ya.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Tim W. wrote: View Post
                      I did forget about Kleiza, which you have to think about. He's still got 3 more years left and if he struggles with his health, then you're not going to want his salary taking up room and him taking up a roster spot. I still probably would go with no one, but if a decision was made that someone needed to be cut, I'd do Kleiza.

                      As for Calderon, Matt and I have had this discussion before. I don't think Calderon's contract is that much of a problem because I look at it as a placeholder for DeRozan's next contract. I don't think Calderon's contract will prevent the team from signing who they want (if they do decide to), and he helps the other players develop offensively, so I think he's valuable to the team. With Bayless running the show, the other players probably won't be getting the ball a) as much and b) in as good a scoring position as Calderon gives it. So their offensive development might suffer a little.

                      Calderon and Kleiza should be the only ones even in the conversation because I don't see it being that difficult to move anyone else and get value in return, so why cut them.
                      Tim, we have definitely discussed this before. This is the first time you brought up the bolded section above that I am aware of. Good point.

                      However, I don't think one can hold on to him if he can be traded or receive cap space via the amnesty. Looking at the end of the regular season (albeit in a small sample size and in games with little meaning), players like DD, ED and JJ played just as well or better without him - not to mention Bayless. He and Amir definitely have chemistry but I don't think it makes enough of a difference to not avail of the financial flexibility his trade/buyout would create for next summer.

                      Regardless of what armchair GM's like myself think will be best it will nonetheless be interesting to see what actually happens. The Raptors really could be on the cusp of greatness in a couple of seasons if one or two lucky breaks fall their way.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Matt52 wrote: View Post
                        Tim, we have definitely discussed this before. This is the first time you brought up the bolded section above that I am aware of. Good point.

                        However, I don't think one can hold on to him if he can be traded or receive cap space via the amnesty. Looking at the end of the regular season (albeit in a small sample size and in games with little meaning), players like DD, ED and JJ played just as well or better without him - not to mention Bayless. He and Amir definitely have chemistry but I don't think it makes enough of a difference to not avail of the financial flexibility his trade/buyout would create for next summer.

                        Regardless of what armchair GM's like myself think will be best it will nonetheless be interesting to see what actually happens. The Raptors really could be on the cusp of greatness in a couple of seasons if one or two lucky breaks fall their way.
                        Actually, I have brought up that before with you. Twice I believe (once during a discussion in the trades forum). I remember being puzzled you never commented on it. I guess you never noticed it. What, my posts too long for you, or something???

                        Anyway, if the Raptors can get something of value for him, I've always said they should, but I completely disagree with cutting him. I don't think his salary at all hinders the club from making any move, so I don't see what the point is. Especially when they could get something of value for him down the line when his contract is smaller. Especially with the new CBA. The likelihood of luring a good enough free agent where you'd need the money BEFORE his contract expires is pretty slim, in my opinion.
                        Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
                        Follow me on Twitter.

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                        • #13
                          I agree with most of the comments about keeping Calderon.
                          - only 2 years left, one if this season is a wash and a year comes off all contracts
                          - could be valuable trade asset as a good veteran pass-first PG with an expiring contract

                          The one question I had was if the Raptors could cut him and then re-sign him for much less money. That way the Raptors could keep him as a player and a potential PG mentor after the next season or two, but at a much more attractive cost.

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                          • #14
                            Calderon for me. His hamstring is in bad shape and has lost his shot. I know he's a good guy but at 10 Mil, he's gotta go. I mean, even if he's healthy, a 10 Mil backup is not sound on any team.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
                              I agree with most of the comments about keeping Calderon.
                              - only 2 years left, one if this season is a wash and a year comes off all contracts
                              - could be valuable trade asset as a good veteran pass-first PG with an expiring contract

                              The one question I had was if the Raptors could cut him and then re-sign him for much less money. That way the Raptors could keep him as a player and a potential PG mentor after the next season or two, but at a much more attractive cost.
                              On the last amnesty clause that was a condition of the buy out: no resigning a cut player by the same team. I would imagine it would be similar this time around - but who knows.

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