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  • #31
    Tim W. wrote: View Post
    This has nothing about disagreeing on Bargnani, but about your statement that his rebounding should improve by him moving to PF. I'm going to comment on the Everything Bargnani thread, if you want to discuss it there.

    As for the "tanking" issue, that always seems to be the reaction when someone suggests not trying to win now, as if there are only two choices: Win or tank. If I wanted the Raptors to tank, I'd want them to gut their roster and try to lose as many games as they can. That's not what I, or anyone else, is suggesting.

    I'm suggesting continuing on the development path, which means not worrying about the wins and losses, but on building a solid core for the future. Signing or trading for veteran talent just makes the team a little more competitive, basically worsening the chances they'll get a top 3 pick in 2012. It hurts their future prospects far, far more than it helps them. So why do it?
    I dont see how signing a guy like Kwame Brown to a mid level deal prevents us from continuing with the development path, what it does though is make us compete right now as well as later on, which is what we should be trying to do.
    "Defense wins championships."

    Comment


    • #32
      We only have 10 players signed that means we will HAVE to fill our roster, suggestions like Kwame Brown, and Shane Battier are not going to curtail our prospects for development in the future, what it will do is fill the holes in our roster and make our team a better defending team. All part of creating a "winning" culture in Toronto so we can win a championship. These kinds of players will sign for like 4-5 million a year for 2-3 years. You guys can disagree with me, but I'm telling you, the raptors brain "trusts" and think tanks are thinking along the lines of what I am saying right now. These guys are "role players" they are not max contract guys that are gonna "lock us down".

      Lets win some games boys!!!! name the last team that drafted their way to the a championship ... sure San Antonio out of the last 10 championships won only 3 were by teams that did it via the draft, the other 7 were done through free agency and trades, and the 3 that won via the draft were all San Antonio and that is cause they hit the lottery with Tim Duncan. I would rather not try and hit the lottery. No need to go all in this year, but we have 3-5 spots to fill on the roster so lets fill them with veteran, fundamentally sound defenders, and then give it all we can this year.
      "Defense wins championships."

      Comment


      • #33
        SuperRaptor wrote: View Post
        Our team is young right? means that our players havent peaked that they are developing, getting stronger in offseasons, learning from the previous year, that should mean improvement right there. Add to that a free agency period where I believe we will pick up atleast a C which may potentially improve our defense immensely, and a coach who is "all about defense" and I think we can win 40 games and make the playoffs.

        We can score, we just cant defend, resolve the defensive issue by making us a middle of the pack defensive team and we can make the playoffs simple as that.
        Fair enough.

        I'm not sure I'd agree with the opinion given OKC added Westbrook to Durant, with Durant having a year under his belt, and they managed to go from 20 to 23 wins - and Toronto does not have any talent near those two at this time. Also Casey has not had any opportunity to work with any of the players up until now. They will have 2 weeks working together before the start of the season and any new defensive systems will be a working project throughout the year. As Casey said in an interview, he is going to start at the basic, basic fundamentals because many of the guys lack them.

        Toronto already has the C to improve the defense but he is not on the roster next year and will take a year or two more to develop once he does arrive in all likelihood.

        how things play out over the next 12 months, we may have as much as US$24-million in [salary] cap flexibility.


        http://sports.nationalpost.com/2011/...start-rebuild/

        Time will tell. But unless there are significant changes made in the next 4 weeks, my money is on a repeat of last year with a cap of 22 wins (remember this is a 66-game season, 22 wins would be the equivalent of 27 in 82 game season).

        Comment


        • #34
          Matt52 wrote: View Post
          Fair enough.

          I'm not sure I'd agree with the opinion given OKC added Westbrook to Durant, with Durant having a year under his belt, and they managed to go from 20 to 23 wins - and Toronto does not have any talent near those two at this time. Also Casey has not had any opportunity to work with any of the players up until now. They will have 2 weeks working together before the start of the season and any new defensive systems will be a working project throughout the year. As Casey said in an interview, he is going to start at the basic, basic fundamentals because many of the guys lack them.

          Toronto already has the C to improve the defense but he is not on the roster next year and will take a year or two more to develop once he does arrive in all likelihood.




          Time will tell. But unless there are significant changes made in the next 4 weeks, my money is on a repeat of last year with a cap of 22 wins (remember this is a 66-game season, 22 wins would be the equivalent of 27 in 82 game season).

          I hope we can save all of those posts that include our predictions for the year, and look back at them at the end of the year so we can gauge how close/far all of us were.

          This is what I think:

          1) I think that this coach will give Jerryd Bayless at least 30 min. every game, and start him. I think this will improve our defense, and if Bayless can play like he did in the last month of the season and average 20+ points that could be a game changer for us. I happen to believe in the kid, and I think he can be a star. Also one thing that Jose Calderon has shown over his career is that he is a GREAT back up PG (cause he keeps getting promoted to starting PG by outplaying his counterpart) matching him up against back up PG's can hide his defensive issues too, his playmaking, shooting, and assist to turn over ratio have never been questioned.

          2) I think that by virtue of holding people accountable alone, Dwayne Casey will improve our defense. Nothing motivates like playtime, our players have been sheltered by the likes of guys like Jay Triano too long, they need a guy who is going to lay the law down and say "if you dont bring it on the defensive end you dont get to play" I think our guys are capable of playing defense. Defense is about effort and discipline more than talent, it is the coaches responsibility to make sure that he gets the most out of the players. This is something that the Triano regime didnt do well, the Sam Mitchell regime was able to get the most out of the players. Dwayne Casey if he is as "fanatical" about defense as he claims should be able to do this too.

          3) I believe that moving Andrea Bargnani to the PF (his natural position) will improve our defense. Defending the rim will single handedly take an average defensive team like the Orlando Magic and turn them into one of the best defenses in the league (enter Dwight Howard) if our weakest defender is at such a crucial position of course our team defense will suffer. I would like to see us get a fundamentally sound C, a guy who knows how to help defend, not necessarily a shot blocker but someone who is a presence, I would like to see us acquire this role player through free agency and have Alabi play as the back up C. I think Bargnani's confidence will improve and I think we will see all of his numbers go up as a result of this.

          4) I think Derozan will develop into a stronger player and a better defender. Everything I have seen from this kid, shows me that his work ethic is unbelievable and if the coach can get him to buy in with his work ethic on the defensive end that can be HUGE for us. We already know he can score, and from all accounts I heard his long range jumper is improving too. Look for another year where this kid moves forward in every aspect of his game.

          5) James Johnson can develop into a very good defensive player in this league. The way he filled the stat sheet last year, and his size, and athleticism lead me to believe that he can improve greatly given a chance. I would like to see us get a veteran SF like Battier if we can for cheap, someone who plays defense. To put pressure on these young kids "if you dont defend I know this guy will" type of attitude will keep the competition going. Plus adding a few veteran pieces that know how to be professionals and play good defense can do wonders for this young squad if you ask me.

          Those are all the reasons why I think the raptors will make the playoffs this year. I don't think people realize how close to being a good team we are, we are just one or two pieces or one good defensive coach away from being a .500 plus team. We lost many games last year by 3 buckets or less... we are closer than people think we are.
          "Defense wins championships."

          Comment


          • #35
            An acquisition like Jamaal Magloire for the C might not be too bad either ... average about 7.5 pts / 6.6 reb / 1 block a game in 22 min. for his career, not bad ...
            "Defense wins championships."

            Comment


            • #36
              SuperRaptor wrote: View Post
              name the last team that drafted their way to the a championship
              Seriously?

              Let's just name the teams that have appeared in the finals over the last 15 years or so.

              Heat: drafted Wade, built around him
              Mavs: drafted Dirk, built around him
              Orlando: drafted Howard, built around him
              Lakers: traded for Kobe on draft day, are built around him and have been since Shaq left
              Spurs: drafted Duncan, Parker AND Ginobli
              Cavs: drafted LeBron, failed at building around him
              Pistons: dealt for their best players
              Nets: dealt then-superstar Marbury for Jason Kidd, drafted Martin and Kittles
              76ers: drafted Iverson, built around him
              Pacers: drafted Miller and Smits, built around them
              Knicks: drafted Ewing, built around him

              edit: just realized I didn't go back far enough for 15 years, so here are some more.

              Bulls: Jordan, Pippen
              Jazz: Stockton, Malone
              Sonics: Payton, Kemp
              Houston: Olajuwon
              Magic: Shaq

              So your answer is just about all of them.

              You need a franchise player to win an NBA championship. Most often they come from the draft and the team builds around their strengths and weaknesses. This has been proven over and over and over again. I don't mean to be rude or rain on your parade here, but the Raps don't have a player even close to the calibre required to carry an NBA team, and the draft is realistically their only option unless they dump all of their assets in order to trade for a disgruntled superstar before hoping they can resign him despite having bare cupboards (kinda like the Nets are about to do with Williams).

              So get ready for a long season of losing and hope the light at the end of the tunnel is really, really bright.
              Last edited by Lark Benson; Sat Nov 26th, 2011, 07:35 PM.

              Comment


              • #37
                Lark Benson wrote: View Post
                Seriously?

                Let's just name the teams that have appeared in the finals over the last 15 years or so.

                Heat: drafted Wade, built around him
                Mavs: drafted Dirk, built around him
                Orlando: drafted Howard, built around him
                Lakers: traded for Kobe on draft day, are built around him and have been since Shaq left
                Spurs: drafted Duncan, Parker AND Ginobli
                Cavs: drafted LeBron, failed at building around him
                Pistons: dealt for their best players
                Nets: dealt then-superstar Marbury for Jason Kidd, drafted Martin and Kittles
                76ers: drafted Iverson, built around him
                Pacers: drafted Miller and Smits, built around them
                Knicks: drafted Ewing, built around him

                edit: just realized I didn't go back far enough for 15 years, so here are some more.

                Bulls: Jordan, Pippen
                Jazz: Stockton, Malone
                Sonics: Payton, Kemp
                Houston: Olajuwon
                Magic: Shaq

                So your answer is just about all of them.

                You need a franchise player to win an NBA championship. Most often they come from the draft and the team builds around their strengths and weaknesses. This has been proven over and over and over again. I don't mean to be rude or rain on your parade here, but the Raps don't have a player even close to the calibre required to carry an NBA team, and the draft is realistically their only option unless they dump all of their assets in order to trade for a disgruntled superstar before hoping they can resign him despite having bare cupboards (kinda like the Nets are about to do with Williams).

                So get ready for a long season of losing and hope the light at the end of the tunnel is really, really bright.
                the question was who won championships in the last 10 years as a direct result of their draft pick. Miami won a championship after acquiring Shaq through free agency, after shaq left no championship, they went to the finals ... why? cause of free agency again.

                Mavs could never win a championship until they splurged last year in ... here we go again ... free agency.

                Orlando hasnt won a championship.

                Lakers traded for Kobe Bryant never drafted him. He was drafted by the charlotte hornets. Didnt start winning championships until they acquired Shaq, then Gasol later.

                San Antonio ill give you that.

                Cavs drafted perhaps the best player since Michael Jordan no championship.

                Bulls true.

                Pacers true.

                Houston true.

                What I am trying to say is that it is a combination of good drafting and free agency, drafting is not the only way to get a franchise player. It is how you play your cards in free agency that takes you over the top. I disagree with the philosophy that until you have a franchise player you should just keep losing.

                I dont disagree with what you are saying drafting is an essential part of team building but I believe we are one good trade away from competing.
                "Defense wins championships."

                Comment


                • #38
                  Why did Miami get Shaq? They had an all-world player for him to pair with. You don't attract high end free agents without top talent already on the roster or your team is in New York, Florida or California. None of that applies to the Raps.

                  Mavs splurge every year, and again, the only reason anyone signs in Dallas is because they have Dirk. They win 50+ games every year, and Cuban hands out money like high fives.

                  Orlando hasn't won a championship, but at least they got to the Finals after, again, drafting a top talent and acquiring players to fit specifically alongside him.

                  Lakers traded Divac for Bryant on draft day, specifically targetting him after LA and Charlotte had agreed to make the deal for the pick before draft day. So yeah, close enough for me.

                  Let me put it to you another way:

                  How are the Raptors going to afford to both pay DeRozan (then Davis the year after, Val after that, etc) and attract free agents if they go and blow their money on Brown and Battier (or Magloire, which I think would be insane)? What's the selling point in a mediocre roster with next to zero financial flexibility in a city that has never been able to attract high end free agents in the club's 15 years?

                  Chalk it up to philosophical differences.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    SuperRaptor wrote: View Post
                    I hope we can save all of those posts that include our predictions for the year, and look back at them at the end of the year so we can gauge how close/far all of us were.
                    I definitely agree. Once the roster is set I - or someone else if they beat me to it - will start a thread with a poll asking a season prediction.

                    This is what I think:

                    1) I think that this coach will give Jerryd Bayless at least 30 min. every game, and start him. I think this will improve our defense, and if Bayless can play like he did in the last month of the season and average 20+ points that could be a game changer for us. I happen to believe in the kid, and I think he can be a star. Also one thing that Jose Calderon has shown over his career is that he is a GREAT back up PG (cause he keeps getting promoted to starting PG by outplaying his counterpart) matching him up against back up PG's can hide his defensive issues too, his playmaking, shooting, and assist to turn over ratio have never been questioned.
                    I would like to see Bayless get his shot. We know what we get with Calderon in a starting role, Bayless is an unknown. However the numbers do not back up your statement on Bayless defensive prowess versus Calderon. According 82games.com, Bayless had an Opp PER of 19.0 last year while Calderon had Opp PER of 18.


                    2) I think that by virtue of holding people accountable alone, Dwayne Casey will improve our defense. Nothing motivates like playtime, our players have been sheltered by the likes of guys like Jay Triano too long, they need a guy who is going to lay the law down and say "if you dont bring it on the defensive end you dont get to play" I think our guys are capable of playing defense. Defense is about effort and discipline more than talent, it is the coaches responsibility to make sure that he gets the most out of the players. This is something that the Triano regime didnt do well, the Sam Mitchell regime was able to get the most out of the players. Dwayne Casey if he is as "fanatical" about defense as he claims should be able to do this too.
                    I would tend to agree. The one game (January versus Pistons) Bargnani was benched early in the third quarter was one of his best when he came back in the game pissed off - he actually rebounded.

                    3) I believe that moving Andrea Bargnani to the PF (his natural position) will improve our defense. Defending the rim will single handedly take an average defensive team like the Orlando Magic and turn them into one of the best defenses in the league (enter Dwight Howard) if our weakest defender is at such a crucial position of course our team defense will suffer. I would like to see us get a fundamentally sound C, a guy who knows how to help defend, not necessarily a shot blocker but someone who is a presence, I would like to see us acquire this role player through free agency and have Alabi play as the back up C. I think Bargnani's confidence will improve and I think we will see all of his numbers go up as a result of this.
                    We are in big disagreement. There is a thread with 200 pages discussing this and I don't think it is necessary to go in to it here. I will say I would love to be proven wrong by Bargnani but history is not on his side.

                    4) I think Derozan will develop into a stronger player and a better defender. Everything I have seen from this kid, shows me that his work ethic is unbelievable and if the coach can get him to buy in with his work ethic on the defensive end that can be HUGE for us. We already know he can score, and from all accounts I heard his long range jumper is improving too. Look for another year where this kid moves forward in every aspect of his game.
                    I hope so too.

                    5) James Johnson can develop into a very good defensive player in this league. The way he filled the stat sheet last year, and his size, and athleticism lead me to believe that he can improve greatly given a chance. I would like to see us get a veteran SF like Battier if we can for cheap, someone who plays defense. To put pressure on these young kids "if you dont defend I know this guy will" type of attitude will keep the competition going. Plus adding a few veteran pieces that know how to be professionals and play good defense can do wonders for this young squad if you ask me.
                    A veteran like Battier is going to a team to win. That is not Toronto at this point in time - especially cheap. I definitely want to see player earning their cheque and pushing one another though. That is the point of watching a young team grow and rebuild - that does not happen in one season as you are suggesting.


                    Those are all the reasons why I think the raptors will make the playoffs this year. I don't think people realize how close to being a good team we are, we are just one or two pieces or one good defensive coach away from being a .500 plus team. We lost many games last year by 3 buckets or less... we are closer than people think we are.
                    I share your optimism, just not for 2011-12. A high draft pick next year, a big free agent signing, JV suiting up, and a veteran rotational player is what I am looking for in 2012-13.

                    As BC said, 2011-12 will be about the evaluation of what the franchise already has.

                    My point is, with the team essentially the same as it was last year, there is no way, in my opinion, we go from a 22/17 win team to a 40/32 win team this year (82game/66game schedule).

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      SuperRaptor wrote: View Post
                      I dont see how signing a guy like Kwame Brown to a mid level deal prevents us from continuing with the development path, what it does though is make us compete right now as well as later on, which is what we should be trying to do.
                      I don't think signing a guy like Kwame does really anything (and the mid-level is way too much for him), but if the Raptors sign a veteran center, I'd prefer him to be someone like Francisco Elson, who's actually played on some winning teams, or even a Tony Battie. But when you talk about signing a guy like Shane Battier, you're committing money and playing time that could be better spent elsewhere.
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                      Comment


                      • #41
                        SuperRaptor wrote: View Post
                        I hope we can save all of those posts that include our predictions for the year, and look back at them at the end of the year so we can gauge how close/far all of us were.

                        This is what I think:

                        1) I think that this coach will give Jerryd Bayless at least 30 min. every game, and start him. I think this will improve our defense, and if Bayless can play like he did in the last month of the season and average 20+ points that could be a game changer for us. I happen to believe in the kid, and I think he can be a star. Also one thing that Jose Calderon has shown over his career is that he is a GREAT back up PG (cause he keeps getting promoted to starting PG by outplaying his counterpart) matching him up against back up PG's can hide his defensive issues too, his playmaking, shooting, and assist to turn over ratio have never been questioned.
                        As Matt mentioned, there's simply no basis in fact to back up your argument that Bayless will help the team defensively. And while I am hopefully with him, if he ends up averaging 20+ ppg I think that will hurt the team more than help it. Remember Mike James also averaged 20+ ppg. Calderon has had a more positive effect on the team than Bayless did even when he was putting up great numbers. Great numbers don't tell the whole story.

                        SuperRaptor wrote: View Post
                        2) I think that by virtue of holding people accountable alone, Dwayne Casey will improve our defense. Nothing motivates like playtime, our players have been sheltered by the likes of guys like Jay Triano too long, they need a guy who is going to lay the law down and say "if you dont bring it on the defensive end you dont get to play" I think our guys are capable of playing defense. Defense is about effort and discipline more than talent, it is the coaches responsibility to make sure that he gets the most out of the players. This is something that the Triano regime didnt do well, the Sam Mitchell regime was able to get the most out of the players. Dwayne Casey if he is as "fanatical" about defense as he claims should be able to do this too.
                        I think fans expect WAY too much from coaches. I think Casey will help but remember how much everyone wanted Avery Johnson because they thought he'd make a big impact and he went into New Jersey and they were still one of the worst defensive teams and won only two more games than the Raptors.

                        SuperRaptor wrote: View Post
                        3) I believe that moving Andrea Bargnani to the PF (his natural position) will improve our defense. Defending the rim will single handedly take an average defensive team like the Orlando Magic and turn them into one of the best defenses in the league (enter Dwight Howard) if our weakest defender is at such a crucial position of course our team defense will suffer. I would like to see us get a fundamentally sound C, a guy who knows how to help defend, not necessarily a shot blocker but someone who is a presence, I would like to see us acquire this role player through free agency and have Alabi play as the back up C. I think Bargnani's confidence will improve and I think we will see all of his numbers go up as a result of this.
                        You really think that Bargnani simply playing a different position will help the defense? You know there's very little real difference between the center and PF position defensively, right? And last season whenever the team played the zone, Bargnani was on the wing, not in the middle, so they hid him as much as they could and it still didn't make a difference.

                        SuperRaptor wrote: View Post
                        4) I think Derozan will develop into a stronger player and a better defender. Everything I have seen from this kid, shows me that his work ethic is unbelievable and if the coach can get him to buy in with his work ethic on the defensive end that can be HUGE for us. We already know he can score, and from all accounts I heard his long range jumper is improving too. Look for another year where this kid moves forward in every aspect of his game.
                        I am certainly hopeful that he'll improve defensively, but I don't see him ever becoming a great defender because he's never shown the instincts. I think he can become a decent defender, but you don't simply learn to become a great one. You have to have the instincts.

                        SuperRaptor wrote: View Post
                        5) James Johnson can develop into a very good defensive player in this league. The way he filled the stat sheet last year, and his size, and athleticism lead me to believe that he can improve greatly given a chance. I would like to see us get a veteran SF like Battier if we can for cheap, someone who plays defense. To put pressure on these young kids "if you dont defend I know this guy will" type of attitude will keep the competition going. Plus adding a few veteran pieces that know how to be professionals and play good defense can do wonders for this young squad if you ask me.
                        How are you going to entice some good veterans to a team they know is rebuilding and will give as many minutes to the younger players as possible. I think James Johnson has a chance to be a good player, but I wouldn't count on it.

                        SuperRaptor wrote: View Post
                        Those are all the reasons why I think the raptors will make the playoffs this year. I don't think people realize how close to being a good team we are, we are just one or two pieces or one good defensive coach away from being a .500 plus team. We lost many games last year by 3 buckets or less... we are closer than people think we are.
                        I don't think you realize just how far off the team is from being a good team. They have probably 5 players that would make the rotation of a good team, they have no All-Stars, no players you can currently say are excellent defenders, right now, and are one of the youngest teams in the league. The combination of all of that doesn't exactly shout possible playoff team. Don't get me wrong, I like the direction the team is headed, but they're at least a year away and probably two from making any noise.

                        One question, what were your expectations last year?
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                        Comment


                        • #42
                          There is no way in hell that this roster (as it currently stands) will make the playoffs. None. But that doesn't mean they won't be fun to watch.

                          Unless a blockbuster deal presents itself...say Rudy Gay...all signs point to Colangelo maintaining status quo this season, and splurging the year after that, when Jonas arrives.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Tim W. wrote: View Post
                            As Matt mentioned, there's simply no basis in fact to back up your argument that Bayless will help the team defensively. And while I am hopefully with him, if he ends up averaging 20+ ppg I think that will hurt the team more than help it. Remember Mike James also averaged 20+ ppg. Calderon has had a more positive effect on the team than Bayless did even when he was putting up great numbers. Great numbers don't tell the whole story.



                            I think fans expect WAY too much from coaches. I think Casey will help but remember how much everyone wanted Avery Johnson because they thought he'd make a big impact and he went into New Jersey and they were still one of the worst defensive teams and won only two more games than the Raptors.



                            You really think that Bargnani simply playing a different position will help the defense? You know there's very little real difference between the center and PF position defensively, right? And last season whenever the team played the zone, Bargnani was on the wing, not in the middle, so they hid him as much as they could and it still didn't make a difference.



                            I am certainly hopeful that he'll improve defensively, but I don't see him ever becoming a great defender because he's never shown the instincts. I think he can become a decent defender, but you don't simply learn to become a great one. You have to have the instincts.



                            How are you going to entice some good veterans to a team they know is rebuilding and will give as many minutes to the younger players as possible. I think James Johnson has a chance to be a good player, but I wouldn't count on it.



                            I don't think you realize just how far off the team is from being a good team. They have probably 5 players that would make the rotation of a good team, they have no All-Stars, no players you can currently say are excellent defenders, right now, and are one of the youngest teams in the league. The combination of all of that doesn't exactly shout possible playoff team. Don't get me wrong, I like the direction the team is headed, but they're at least a year away and probably two from making any noise.

                            One question, what were your expectations last year?
                            Wow I cant believe how pessimistic everyone on this forum is about the potential of this team. Unbelievable actually, anyway I will not argue, all that I will say is that I disagree with extreme prejudice.

                            Before the Colangelo took over the raptors were one of the worst teams in the league, the following year they won the atlantic division title. The difference between a winning team and a losing team can be one player. Sometimes that player isnt a "Franchise player" either, sometimes guys grow from within. I have seen a lot of growth already, and I think the future is VERY bright.

                            Although my point of view seems in conflict with the people on this forum today, I can promise you that it is not inconsistent with the brain trust of the raptors, they know the potential of our team, and will execute accordingly, 3-5 roster spots filled and I guarantee it will not be with min. contract guys.

                            Barbosa comes off the books next year, Calderon comes off the books the year after. The raptors have money to spend and they can do it without losing flexibility. If you guys think the raptors will sit around and do nothing, and declare this season a wash, I think that is funny.
                            "Defense wins championships."

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              SuperRaptor wrote: View Post
                              Wow I cant believe how pessimistic everyone on this forum is about the potential of this team. Unbelievable actually, anyway I will not argue, all that I will say is that I disagree with extreme prejudice.

                              Before the Colangelo took over the raptors were one of the worst teams in the league, the following year they won the atlantic division title. The difference between a winning team and a losing team can be one player. Sometimes that player isnt a "Franchise player" either, sometimes guys grow from within. I have seen a lot of growth already, and I think the future is VERY bright.

                              Although my point of view seems in conflict with the people on this forum today, I can promise you that it is not inconsistent with the brain trust of the raptors, they know the potential of our team, and will execute accordingly, 3-5 roster spots filled and I guarantee it will not be with min. contract guys.

                              Barbosa comes off the books next year, Calderon comes off the books the year after. The raptors have money to spend and they can do it without losing flexibility. If you guys think the raptors will sit around and do nothing, and declare this season a wash, I think that is funny.
                              I don't think there are very many around here ho are pessimistic about the potential of this team. I think most people are actually quite optimistic. The difference, however, is that most of us realize that it will take at least a couple of years to realize that potential. The Raptors are still a very young team and still need to develop.

                              The year the Raptors won the Atlantic Division, you have to realize that they also had a veteran laden squad and the division was weak. Anthony Parker, Jorge Garbajosa and Nesterovic were HUGE contributors, and the Raptors have no one on the team like that right now.

                              I am curious why you believe the Raptors brain trust agrees with you. I don't know where it is, but somewhere I read a quote from Colangelo talking about how, basically, the team is not going to be spending money this offseason and continue along the same path they're on. What he seems to be focused on is the 2012 offseason when the Raptors will have around $24 million in cap room and (hopefully) a top 3-5 pick in a strong draft.

                              And I don't think ANYONE here considers this season a wash. If you think that then you don't seem to understand our point of view at all. This season should focus on development, not winning. That doesn't mean it's a wash. With such a young team, they all need lots of playing time to develop and for management to see exactly what they have. Is Bayless a legit starting PG? Will James Johnson fulfill the potential that made Colangelo think about drafting him when he came out? Is Ed Davis a future All-Star? Is DeRozan? Lot of questions to be answered and the only way to answer them is to play.
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                              • #45
                                SuperRaptor wrote: View Post
                                Wow I cant believe how pessimistic everyone on this forum is about the potential of this team. Unbelievable actually, anyway I will not argue, all that I will say is that I disagree with extreme prejudice.

                                Before the Colangelo took over the raptors were one of the worst teams in the league, the following year they won the atlantic division title. The difference between a winning team and a losing team can be one player. Sometimes that player isnt a "Franchise player" either, sometimes guys grow from within. I have seen a lot of growth already, and I think the future is VERY bright.

                                Although my point of view seems in conflict with the people on this forum today, I can promise you that it is not inconsistent with the brain trust of the raptors, they know the potential of our team, and will execute accordingly, 3-5 roster spots filled and I guarantee it will not be with min. contract guys.

                                Barbosa comes off the books next year, Calderon comes off the books the year after. The raptors have money to spend and they can do it without losing flexibility. If you guys think the raptors will sit around and do nothing, and declare this season a wash, I think that is funny.
                                Clearly you have not read all the comments outside of a glance. There are a lot of optimistic posters - some negative too - but the optimistic ones are looking at 1-2 years down the road.

                                Outside of one year deals, the Raptors cannot add money without losing flexibility. Doing so also significantly hurts draft positioning chances (although nothing is guaranteed with the lottery).

                                I have no doubt the Raptors will do something, it is just a matter of when and what is in the best interests of the franchise long term.

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