Assuming the deal is approved, what comes next?

[SuperRaptor]

This has nothing about disagreeing on Bargnani, but about your statement that his rebounding should improve by him moving to PF. I'm going to comment on the Everything Bargnani thread, if you want to discuss it there.

As for the "tanking" issue, that always seems to be the reaction when someone suggests not trying to win now, as if there are only two choices: Win or tank. If I wanted the Raptors to tank, I'd want them to gut their roster and try to lose as many games as they can. That's not what I, or anyone else, is suggesting.

I'm suggesting continuing on the development path, which means not worrying about the wins and losses, but on building a solid core for the future. Signing or trading for veteran talent just makes the team a little more competitive, basically worsening the chances they'll get a top 3 pick in 2012. It hurts their future prospects far, far more than it helps them. So why do it?

I dont see how signing a guy like Kwame Brown to a mid level deal prevents us from continuing with the development path, what it does though is make us compete right now as well as later on, which is what we should be trying to do.

[SuperRaptor]

With no off-season moves made yet and the 2011 pick not showing up until next year, the roster is essentially the same right now. This is the same roster that won 22 games last year. How are they making the playoffs this year?

Our team is young right? means that our players havent peaked that they are developing, getting stronger in offseasons, learning from the previous year, that should mean improvement right there. Add to that a free agency period where I believe we will pick up atleast a C which may potentially improve our defense immensely, and a coach who is "all about defense" and I think we can win 40 games and make the playoffs.

We can score, we just cant defend, resolve the defensive issue by making us a middle of the pack defensive team and we can make the playoffs simple as that.

[Lark Benson]

Funny how quickly this turned into a 'development vs winning now' thread, but it's probably as unavoidable as every topic about personnel coming back to Bargs.

As for what comes next? A fun year of scrutinizing the development of the young players and a lot of disagreements over who to keep and who to ship out. So, should be just like last year, except with fewer games before the lotto payoff. Gonna be a lot of fun though, more like watching a sports soap opera than tracking a competitive team.

[Tim W.]

Watching the Raptors suck and lose a ton of games comes next...

I like to think of it as watching the young players develop and grow. I'm definitely looking forward to seeing that.

[mcHAPPY]

Watching the Raptors suck and lose a ton of games comes next...

Most likely true but last year was one of the most enjoyable years of Raptors ball I've watched in a long time.

[RaptorsFan4Life]

Watching the Raptors suck and lose a ton of games comes next...

[Tim W.]

Tim, you I and can agree to disagree, but we have vastly different points of views on the value of Bargnani. I will let the season do the talking for me, but a PF who gets 21 pts and 5 rebs per game is good enough to start on my the Toronto Raptors if you ask me.

As for tanking and getting a good pick, the NBA is hard enough to win in any way, if we are as shitty as you think we are there is no hope for us no matter who we bring in, so we are getting a good pick anyway, why worry. I think the raptors will make the playoffs this year, and start competing within the next 3 years.

Viva la new CBA!!!!

This has nothing about disagreeing on Bargnani, but about your statement that his rebounding should improve by him moving to PF. I'm going to comment on the Everything Bargnani thread, if you want to discuss it there.

As for the "tanking" issue, that always seems to be the reaction when someone suggests not trying to win now, as if there are only two choices: Win or tank. If I wanted the Raptors to tank, I'd want them to gut their roster and try to lose as many games as they can. That's not what I, or anyone else, is suggesting.

I'm suggesting continuing on the development path, which means not worrying about the wins and losses, but on building a solid core for the future. Signing or trading for veteran talent just makes the team a little more competitive, basically worsening the chances they'll get a top 3 pick in 2012. It hurts their future prospects far, far more than it helps them. So why do it?

[Tim W.]

The Raptors should become as competitive as possible as soon as possible imo. The average attendance has dropped almost 3,000 per game since 2008. Who likes to identify with a perennial sad sack? BC has only a two year contract so I am hopeful he sees the light.

Unless they have the core to sustain the improvement and eventually become a contender, which they don't, then all that does is push then into perennial mediocrity, which is death for an NBA franchise.

The Raptors are in a great position right now to continue along the same path they're on. No one expects them to compete this year, and with a shortened season, interest isn't going to be as high as normal, anyway. Both Colangelo and Casey have a little leeway, as long as the team stays young, to build slowly.

Probably the worst thing Colangelo could do is try and make the Raptors compete this season.

[mcHAPPY]

Tim, you I and can agree to disagree, but we have vastly different points of views on the value of Bargnani. I will let the season do the talking for me, but a PF who gets 21 pts and 5 rebs per game is good enough to start on my the Toronto Raptors if you ask me.

As for tanking and getting a good pick, the NBA is hard enough to win in any way, if we are as shitty as you think we are there is no hope for us no matter who we bring in, so we are getting a good pick anyway, why worry. I think the raptors will make the playoffs this year, and start competing within the next 3 years.

Viva la new CBA!!!!

With no off-season moves made yet and the 2011 pick not showing up until next year, the roster is essentially the same right now. This is the same roster that won 22 games last year. How are they making the playoffs this year?

[mcHAPPY]

The Raptors should become as competitive as possible as soon as possible imo. The average attendance has dropped almost 3,000 per game since 2008. Who likes to identify with a perennial sad sack? BC has only a two year contract so I am hopeful he sees the light.

Laying the foundation of a franchise with a ceiling of a first round exit or, possibly, a second round playoff exit is hardly going to endure fans to the franchise either.

BC also has a team option for year three.

2 years of patience to allow smart drafting, a couple of trades, and a free agent or two will have the ACC packed again for Raptors basketball.

[SuperRaptor]

Do you really want the list of reasons why that makes absolutely no sense? I'd be happy to explain them on the Everything Bargnani thread.

Tim, you I and can agree to disagree, but we have vastly different points of views on the value of Bargnani. I will let the season do the talking for me, but a PF who gets 21 pts and 5 rebs per game is good enough to start on my the Toronto Raptors if you ask me.

As for tanking and getting a good pick, the NBA is hard enough to win in any way, if we are as shitty as you think we are there is no hope for us no matter who we bring in, so we are getting a good pick anyway, why worry. I think the raptors will make the playoffs this year, and start competing within the next 3 years.

Viva la new CBA!!!!

[SuperRaptor]

The Raptors should become as competitive as possible as soon as possible imo. The average attendance has dropped almost 3,000 per game since 2008. Who likes to identify with a perennial sad sack? BC has only a two year contract so I am hopeful he sees the light.

Agreed.

[stretch]

So you're hoping for the Raptors get on that mediocrity treadmill? Gotcha.

The Raptors should become as competitive as possible as soon as possible imo. The average attendance has dropped almost 3,000 per game since 2008. Who likes to identify with a perennial sad sack? BC has only a two year contract so I am hopeful he sees the light.

[Tim W.]

Well Kwame averages 5.6 rebounds in 22 min. thats about 12 rebounds per 48 min. pretty average for a C. Bargnani averaged 7.68 rebounds per 48 min. pretty low, we can only hope he improves his defensive rebounding if he is matched up with smaller guys at PF.

Do you really want the list of reasons why that makes absolutely no sense? I'd be happy to explain them on the Everything Bargnani thread.

[Tim W.]

As for free agent targets: I would like to see us go for Kwame Brown at C, his numbers are almost identical to a Deandre Jordan minus 1 block a game, but he will be cheap, other teams like the Heat and Knicks will go after him, but he never made great money in his career we might be able to get him on a 3 year deal by slightly over paying. He's a veteran, getting him might mean that we can slide bargnani to PF, then play him as back up C too, giving our PFs play time (24 min. a game). He's been a bit of a bust but is a very serviceable defensive professional.

For the SF position: I would LOVE to see us pick up Shane Battier as a lock down defender, and a guy who can make open threes, and bring class and leadership to the dressing room. Will be a wicked mentor for all the youth on the team.

You add a defensive SF and a defensive C, give bayless who is a better defensive PG more play time, and bring in a coach who is obsessed with defense in, and I think we will be a much better team defensively. The only holes in our starting lineup under this scenario if you ask me would be DD, and Bargnani. I find it hard to believe that a hard worker like DD once told to focus 90% of his attention to his defense will not improve quickly, and I can only hope that moving Bargnani to the PF will make him be less of a help defender (his one on one defense is already quite good), thus improving our team defense.

So you're hoping for the Raptors get on that mediocrity treadmill? Gotcha.