Nilanka wrote:
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Amir Johnson as our starting center?
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sleepz wrote: View PostWhy force Davis or Amir into a position they shouldn't be playing?
Both are solid defensive 4's with Davis having the upside to being a very good defensive player at the PF spot.
Let all players come to camp and battle for the position at the 4. If defence is as important as the organization is claiming then Davis or Johnson will be the starting 4.
For the 5 spot Colangelo needs to go out and find a journeyman to fill that position until Jonas is ready to play it.
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Hugmenot wrote: View PostCan you hate more? Your hate has already spilled over to a new coach by insinuating he will likely play favorites before he even coached one game for the Raptors.
I don't think its a matter of Casey playing favorites... its a matter of unavoidable limitations on what can be done with this team and Bargnani.
Casey got credit for what he did with Dallas and Dirk.... unfortunately this team is not Dallas (a team of vets vs young guys), does not yet have Tyson Chandler (top defensive C vs no one... not throwing Alabi's name anywhere yet) and Andrea is not Dirk (a superstar vet vs whatever one feels like calling Bargnani).
I honestly am not expecting major changes with this team. Slower paced offense and more zone and thats about it. Hope I'm wrong.
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When Kevin O'Neil arrived here it was liv=ke somebody flipped a switch. Their defense greatly improved and their offense when down the crapper. They didn't make many roster moves that year, just a coaching change. Coaches can have a big impact. I think defense will improve but we're talking later in the season, not right away.
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Hugmenot wrote: View PostCan you hate more? Your hate has already spilled over to a new coach by insinuating he will likely play favorites before he even coached one game for the Raptors.
The realist in me says that Colangelo would never allow that to happen under his watch, regardless of whether he wants Bargnani to shine, or he wants to showcase him for a future trade.
Bargnani will get minutes as long as he's on this team. Period.
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Nilanka wrote: View PostMy "insinuation" comes from the fact that if Bargnani was given minutes based on defensive effort, he'd never get off the bench. $40 million riding the pine, decreasing in trade value by the minute.
The realist in me says that Colangelo would never allow that to happen under his watch, regardless of whether he wants Bargnani to shine, or he wants to showcase him for a future trade.
Bargnani will get minutes as long as he's on this team. Period.
Rationality left the building.
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GarbageTime wrote: View PostI don't think its a matter of Casey playing favorites... its a matter of unavoidable limitations on what can be done with this team and Bargnani.
What Nilanka saying is Casey will only play Bargnani because of favoritism and that all other options would be better. That's just plain crazy in my opinion.
GarbageTime wrote: View PostI honestly am not expecting major changes with this team. Slower paced offense and more zone and thats about it. Hope I'm wrong.
Barring any major personel changes, my prediction is the Raptors will win more games this shortened season than they did last year.
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Hugmenot wrote: View PostThere is a huge gap between disagreeing with ESPN that Bargnani is the Raptors best player (#80-something in the league) and believing he does not deserve any minute.
Rationality left the building.
Rationality sure has left the building...along with his friend, Common Sense.
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Hugmenot wrote: View PostThere is a huge gap between disagreeing with ESPN that Bargnani is the Raptors best player (#80-something in the league) and believing he does not deserve any minute.
Rationality left the building.Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
Follow me on Twitter.
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Hugmenot wrote: View PostAre you saying Casey will play Bargnani - despite his obvious liabilities - because his other option are worse?
What Nilanka saying is Casey will only play Bargnani because of favoritism and that all other options would be better. That's just plain crazy in my opinion.
Neither do I. I do expect better results this year because of the experience gained by the younger players and the hope the Raptors will be healthier this year.
Barring any major personel changes, my prediction is the Raptors will win more games this shortened season than they did last year.
And not to speak for Nilanka he never once hinted at Casey playing favorites. That was simply your twisted interpretation.
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Hugmenot wrote: View PostNilanka saying is Casey will only play Bargnani because of favoritism and that all other options would be better. That's just plain crazy in my opinion.
My point is that Bargnani has worn the red quarterback (don't hit me) jersey ever since he arrived in Toronto. He's been given chance, after chance, after chance, after chance to prove he can be a COMPLETE player, and has failed time and time again. Yet inexplicably, the brass is still holding out hope that he can become worthy of a #1 pick....and there's no reason for us to think otherwise now that Casey has arrived.
If Bargnani maintains his aloofness on defense, sure Casey might bench him for a quarter. But what happens if the same mistakes are made next quarter, and the next game, and the next month, and so on? Do you actually see Casey reducing Bargnani's minutes permanently? Colangelo has too much invested in Bargnani (financially and emotionally) to let him rot on the bench.
Anyways, at the risk of turning this thread into yet another Bargnani debate, this will be my last response regarding Bargnani.
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Apollo wrote: View PostThey won't be forcing Ed into anything if he comes to camp having reached his off-season goal. He'll be just fine.
I could be wrong but I think him being at the 4 also allows him to play to his strength which is weak side help. I'd rather him coming off the 4 to help out then at the 5 as I find most of the centres in the league are camped underneath the bucket.
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Nilanka wrote: View PostThen Bargnani would have 66 DNP-CDs beside his name :P
As much as I hope all players will be treated equal under Casey's regime, as long as Bargnani is on this roster, preferential treatment towards him seems likely.
All the Bargnani-is-a-power-forward nonsense, combined with Casey's attempt to "hide" him on defense, is evidence of a player who has been given the benefit of the doubt for faaaaaar too long, and there's little reason to think that will change.
I'm not down with preferrential treatment and if Casey steps in and does this he probably won't last long, not because he's not pleasing the GM but because it will result in many L's.
I just think that going forward this team needs to stop appeasing "core" players because quite frankly the talent is not at the point where anyone should be an untouchable or is a cornerstone. Let them get to camp, see who best fits the system and what the coach is trying to accomplish and take it from there. It's the only way to go at this point. You can't give preferrential treatment to any player on this team, including one who the GM has deemed "the enigma".
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sleepz wrote: View PostI'm not sure if gaining additional weight makes him a 5 though. I really like him at the 4 and why do we want him to change his game and position when we have a potenial 5 on the team next year?
I could be wrong but I think him being at the 4 also allows him to play to his strength which is weak side help. I'd rather him coming off the 4 to help out then at the 5 as I find most of the centres in the league are camped underneath the bucket.
My definition of a center is whoever the coach slots in at center. Whether or not that player is an effective center is another matter. I feel Davis would be an effective center if he added the muscle mass. The muscle mass means improved strength and ability to stand his ground. He's an effective defender and attacks the boards. That's all the Raptors need if he brings the size.
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Apollo wrote: View PostWell define the terms "center" and "power forward" to me in that case because I need to understand your definitions of those terms before I go any further down that line. What makes Joakim Noah a center?
My definition of a center is whoever the coach slots in at center. Whether or not that player is an effective center is another matter. I feel Davis would be an effective center if he added the muscle mass. The muscle mass means improved strength and ability to stand his ground. He's an effective defender and attacks the boards. That's all the Raptors need if he brings the size.
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