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Amir Johnson as our starting center?

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  • Hugmenot
    replied
    Tim W. wrote: View Post
    I think the point is that if Casey is going to truly hold players accountable on the defensive end, then Bargnani is most likely going to struggle to get consistent minutes. Sam Mitchell tried a little of that and people complained he didn't give Bargnani a chance.
    Who are you referring to when you say "people" in this statement? I was taking a break from the NBA at that point so I have no context.

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  • Hugmenot
    replied
    Ice_man wrote: View Post
    But considering we're tanking the season for a lottery pick anyways (Harrison Barnes!)
    There we go again; the 'tank' for a better pick crowd chant rises up before the season even begins...

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  • Ice_man
    replied
    I think we might as well give Alabi all the minutes he can handle. He's young and has the size, although I don't know if he has much else. But considering we're tanking the season for a lottery pick anyways (Harrison Barnes!), might as well see if we have anything in Alabi (future big off the bench perhaps?). If he improves, great, and if not, then we can cut bait after the year while securing a high draft pick. David Thorpe's love for him is well documented, and while most of us think this borders on insanity, he's still a very trusted basketball mind.

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  • Apollo
    replied
    If Davis packed on 20lbs they'll weigh the same. Davis was guarding anybody Triano told him to last season. Those players included centers. With his game and if he added that muscle I really don't see the issue here on most nights. He's probably the best person they have to put in there right now.

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  • sleepz
    replied
    Apollo wrote: View Post
    Well define the terms "center" and "power forward" to me in that case because I need to understand your definitions of those terms before I go any further down that line. What makes Joakim Noah a center?

    My definition of a center is whoever the coach slots in at center. Whether or not that player is an effective center is another matter. I feel Davis would be an effective center if he added the muscle mass. The muscle mass means improved strength and ability to stand his ground. He's an effective defender and attacks the boards. That's all the Raptors need if he brings the size.
    I don't know if I can define it. It's more of a combination of size and gauging their game to be honest with you. I'm no scout or basketball talent evaluator but I think we all to a certain extent watch a players game and get a feel for what position they would be ideally suited. I think what makes Noah a 5 is that he played the position at Florida and came into the league defending 5's. Do I think there is a major difference in height and weight between the 2? No, not a lot but I do believe Noah is taller than him and I would wager that he weighs more than him. Don't get me wrong, Davis could possiblly play the 5 but if he is accustomed to the 4 I don't like the change especially when you have a real 5 slated to be on the team next year.

    When I think about him guarding other 5's (M. Gasol, Howard, Bynum, Jordan, Chandler, McGhee, Nene, etc) I have some immediate concerns. Maybe he comes into camp diesel and he puts those concerns to rest but ever since his UNC days I've always thoght he was a prototypical 4.

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  • Apollo
    replied
    He has the kind of game that it doesn't matter and he was guarding both positions last year. Ed is tough and does the blue collar work. He will fit at either position and let's not make the assumption JV starts next year right out of the gate or that a trade isn't made before then to free up the looming log jam.

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  • Nilanka
    replied
    Apollo wrote: View Post
    Well define the terms "center" and "power forward" to me in that case because I need to understand your definitions of those terms before I go any further down that line. What makes Joakim Noah a center?

    My definition of a center is whoever the coach slots in at center. Whether or not that player is an effective center is another matter. I feel Davis would be an effective center if he added the muscle mass. The muscle mass means improved strength and ability to stand his ground. He's an effective defender and attacks the boards. That's all the Raptors need if he brings the size.
    If Davis is moved to centre, what would the plan be going forward once Jonas arrives? Or would Davis play the 5 for this season only?

    Leave a comment:


  • Apollo
    replied
    sleepz wrote: View Post
    I'm not sure if gaining additional weight makes him a 5 though. I really like him at the 4 and why do we want him to change his game and position when we have a potenial 5 on the team next year?

    I could be wrong but I think him being at the 4 also allows him to play to his strength which is weak side help. I'd rather him coming off the 4 to help out then at the 5 as I find most of the centres in the league are camped underneath the bucket.
    Well define the terms "center" and "power forward" to me in that case because I need to understand your definitions of those terms before I go any further down that line. What makes Joakim Noah a center?

    My definition of a center is whoever the coach slots in at center. Whether or not that player is an effective center is another matter. I feel Davis would be an effective center if he added the muscle mass. The muscle mass means improved strength and ability to stand his ground. He's an effective defender and attacks the boards. That's all the Raptors need if he brings the size.

    Leave a comment:


  • sleepz
    replied
    Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Then Bargnani would have 66 DNP-CDs beside his name :P

    As much as I hope all players will be treated equal under Casey's regime, as long as Bargnani is on this roster, preferential treatment towards him seems likely.

    All the Bargnani-is-a-power-forward nonsense, combined with Casey's attempt to "hide" him on defense, is evidence of a player who has been given the benefit of the doubt for faaaaaar too long, and there's little reason to think that will change.
    Lol, Bargnani will always get burn because he can score and this team does lack that ability. If I was coach he would always play because he can fill it up at times, but I'm not going to forcefeed any player minutes that are undeserved as that culture is cancerous.

    I'm not down with preferrential treatment and if Casey steps in and does this he probably won't last long, not because he's not pleasing the GM but because it will result in many L's.

    I just think that going forward this team needs to stop appeasing "core" players because quite frankly the talent is not at the point where anyone should be an untouchable or is a cornerstone. Let them get to camp, see who best fits the system and what the coach is trying to accomplish and take it from there. It's the only way to go at this point. You can't give preferrential treatment to any player on this team, including one who the GM has deemed "the enigma".

    Leave a comment:


  • sleepz
    replied
    Apollo wrote: View Post
    They won't be forcing Ed into anything if he comes to camp having reached his off-season goal. He'll be just fine.
    I'm not sure if gaining additional weight makes him a 5 though. I really like him at the 4 and why do we want him to change his game and position when we have a potenial 5 on the team next year?

    I could be wrong but I think him being at the 4 also allows him to play to his strength which is weak side help. I'd rather him coming off the 4 to help out then at the 5 as I find most of the centres in the league are camped underneath the bucket.

    Leave a comment:


  • Nilanka
    replied
    Hugmenot wrote: View Post
    Nilanka saying is Casey will only play Bargnani because of favoritism and that all other options would be better. That's just plain crazy in my opinion.
    Actually, I never said anything about other options being better (or worse), but nice work putting words in my mouth.

    My point is that Bargnani has worn the red quarterback (don't hit me) jersey ever since he arrived in Toronto. He's been given chance, after chance, after chance, after chance to prove he can be a COMPLETE player, and has failed time and time again. Yet inexplicably, the brass is still holding out hope that he can become worthy of a #1 pick....and there's no reason for us to think otherwise now that Casey has arrived.

    If Bargnani maintains his aloofness on defense, sure Casey might bench him for a quarter. But what happens if the same mistakes are made next quarter, and the next game, and the next month, and so on? Do you actually see Casey reducing Bargnani's minutes permanently? Colangelo has too much invested in Bargnani (financially and emotionally) to let him rot on the bench.

    Anyways, at the risk of turning this thread into yet another Bargnani debate, this will be my last response regarding Bargnani.

    Leave a comment:


  • GarbageTime
    replied
    Hugmenot wrote: View Post
    Are you saying Casey will play Bargnani - despite his obvious liabilities - because his other option are worse?

    What Nilanka saying is Casey will only play Bargnani because of favoritism and that all other options would be better. That's just plain crazy in my opinion.


    Neither do I. I do expect better results this year because of the experience gained by the younger players and the hope the Raptors will be healthier this year.

    Barring any major personel changes, my prediction is the Raptors will win more games this shortened season than they did last year.
    I'm saying it won't matter. He'll play Bargnani because he has to. The team is not in a position to afford benching a $10 mil a year for 4 years contract. If Bargnani can't be useful to the team, he needs to NOT be a dead weight contract. Bargnani may on the occasional game get benched. Maybe even out of the starting line up for a game or two. But he will still get constant playing time... holding a player accountable, atleast thats in Bargnani's contractual position, has limits.

    And not to speak for Nilanka he never once hinted at Casey playing favorites. That was simply your twisted interpretation.

    Leave a comment:


  • Tim W.
    replied
    Hugmenot wrote: View Post
    There is a huge gap between disagreeing with ESPN that Bargnani is the Raptors best player (#80-something in the league) and believing he does not deserve any minute.

    Rationality left the building.
    I think the point is that if Casey is going to truly hold players accountable on the defensive end, then Bargnani is most likely going to struggle to get consistent minutes. Sam Mitchell tried a little of that and people complained he didn't give Bargnani a chance.

    Leave a comment:


  • Nilanka
    replied
    Hugmenot wrote: View Post
    There is a huge gap between disagreeing with ESPN that Bargnani is the Raptors best player (#80-something in the league) and believing he does not deserve any minute.

    Rationality left the building.
    Are we not talking about defensive effort under Casey? Does Casey seem like a guy who would reward extra minutes for hitting open 3's, while blowing defensive coverages?

    Rationality sure has left the building...along with his friend, Common Sense.

    Leave a comment:


  • Hugmenot
    replied
    GarbageTime wrote: View Post
    I don't think its a matter of Casey playing favorites... its a matter of unavoidable limitations on what can be done with this team and Bargnani.
    Are you saying Casey will play Bargnani - despite his obvious liabilities - because his other option are worse?

    What Nilanka saying is Casey will only play Bargnani because of favoritism and that all other options would be better. That's just plain crazy in my opinion.

    GarbageTime wrote: View Post
    I honestly am not expecting major changes with this team. Slower paced offense and more zone and thats about it. Hope I'm wrong.
    Neither do I. I do expect better results this year because of the experience gained by the younger players and the hope the Raptors will be healthier this year.

    Barring any major personel changes, my prediction is the Raptors will win more games this shortened season than they did last year.

    Leave a comment:

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