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Casey's 8-9 man rotation

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  • #16
    If by 8-9 man rotation Casey is referring to players who will have the bulk of the minutes, I think you can basically make that up of all the young players. Bayless, DD, JJ, Forbes, Bargs, ED, Amir, Gray, Alabi(?) and Jose should get a lot of burn at the point but he doesn't really qualify as "young". The vets will spell them as needed and probably more when we are in a back-to-back-to-back-to-back scenario.

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    • #17
      didnt they run this last year?

      ps reports that calderon will be starter

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      • #18
        What about Alabi. We have to get him on the floor to see what he can do!

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        • #19
          I would say: Calderon/Bayless; Derozan/Barbosa; C/PF: Bargs/Amir/Davis/Gray SF: ???????????

          To me, the SF spot is completely open at the moment. Given JJ's inability to play in a system defensively and his out of control play on the offensive end, I am not counting on him playing huge minutes as the season wears on for a coach who, apparently, wants a disciplined and focused approach. If/when Kleiza is healthy he will be in the mix and I would think Forbes will get a chance, along with Butler.

          Given the condensed schedule, I wouldn't be surprised to see the rotation go 11 deep on some nights, so there will be opportunities for everyone.

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          • #20
            I think he just means that's how many guys he'll use every night if he can. I don't think there are 8-9 specific players that are the only ones he'll use.

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            • #21
              white men can't jump wrote: View Post
              I think he just means that's how many guys he'll use every night if he can. I don't think there are 8-9 specific players that are the only ones he'll use.
              Not sure if I agree with this. A rotation is often described as a "pecking order". You get more out of your players if they know how much playing time they'll be getting, and in what situations. If every game is a crapshoot, players have a hard time developing a rhythm. This was one of Triano's faults....not having a consistent rotation, and as a result, players simply not knowing what's expected of them from one night to the next.

              But regardless of what Casey truly meant by his comment, it would be wise for him to eventually establish a pecking order with his substitution patterns that only goes 9-10 players deep (excluding garbage time). It may take him 25 games to figure it out, but the whole roster will benefit once it happens.

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              • #22
                Nilanka wrote: View Post
                Not sure if I agree with this. A rotation is often described as a "pecking order". You get more out of your players if they know how much playing time they'll be getting, and in what situations. If every game is a crapshoot, players have a hard time developing a rhythm. This was one of Triano's faults....not having a consistent rotation, and as a result, players simply not knowing what's expected of them from one night to the next.

                But regardless of what Casey truly meant by his comment, it would be wise for him to eventually establish a pecking order with his substitution patterns that only goes 9-10 players deep (excluding garbage time). It may take him 25 games to figure it out, but the whole roster will benefit once it happens.
                Yes but you also acknowledge that it will be a pattern that is 9-10 players deep, not 8-9. Some nights he will slightly alter his patterns because hopefully he's not a dumbass coach. So if AB, Amir, Ed, JJ, DD, Jose and JB are top 7, probably Barbosa at 8. Then I'd say Forbes, Butler and Gray will be the usual guys being 9 and 10 in the patterns. I don't know if one of those 2 wings will emerge as ahead of the other, but I'm sure Casey will figure it out and then one of them becomes 11, for foul, injury and garbage minutes, and the same minutes go for 12-14(Magloire, Carter, Alabi). When Kleiza comes back he shakes things up a bit, but I imagine Demar and Barbosa will have their roles secure, and he'll compete with Butler, Forbes and JJ. Anyway, I mostly meant that his game plans will likely look to use 8-9 man rotations. If he uses more the game plan isn't working or something's gone very wrong.

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                • #23
                  8-9 man rotation for a game ... setting subs at certain intervals ... doesn't mean it's the same 8-9 guys every night.
                  One night Magloire starts for Gray ... one night Butler is the main bench wing, not LB ... Carter backs-up PG one night ... etc.
                  The only way to bag a classy lady is to give her two tickets to the gun show... and see if she likes the goods.

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                  • #24
                    Papa Burgundy wrote: View Post
                    8-9 man rotation for a game ... setting subs at certain intervals ... doesn't mean it's the same 8-9 guys every night.
                    One night Magloire starts for Gray ... one night Butler is the main bench wing, not LB ... Carter backs-up PG one night ... etc.
                    This was Triano's philosophy, and is exactly the type of strategy that rubs players the wrong way. Our starting center (once the "tryouts" are completed, and a clear cut winner is established) should be our starting center every game. Same with the first wing off the bench.

                    To get the best from your players, they need to know what's expected from them, instead of having them go to sleep each night hoping that their number is called next game. I don't normally like quoting Doug Smith, but he's right when he says basketball players are "creatures of habit". To get consistency out of them, you need to show them consistency in return. Makeshift, on-the-fly lineups will not help this team gel. If you look at the substitution pattern on contending rosters, there is a clear pecking order from 1-9.

                    It may take Casey a while to find a pecking order that works best for him. But once he finds it, he's gotta maintain it.

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                    • #25
                      When a coach speaks of an 8-9 player rotation, it does not mean that other players wont see playing time in almost every game. The team I coach is not very deep, we have a 7 man rotation, throw in foul trouble, blowouts, end of quarter extra rest substitutions and we get almost everyone in every game. Our 7 man rotation is not playing all the minutes, just that we know our substitution patterns and who will be playing the bulk of the minutes in normal situations.

                      EDIT: we are developing the depth now as 3 of our top 7 have been out all at the same time with injuries, one concussion, one ankle, and one broken foot in a cast.....man we need to get healthy soon!
                      Last edited by WJF; Thu Dec 15th, 2011, 11:45 AM.
                      Twitter @WJ_FINDLAY

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                      • #26
                        WJF wrote: View Post
                        When a coach speaks of an 8-9 player rotation, it does not mean that other players wont see playing time in almost every game. The team I coach is not very deep, we have a 7 man rotation, throw in foul trouble, blowouts, end of quarter extra rest substitutions and we get almost everyone in every game. Our 7 man rotation is not playing all the minutes, just that we know our substitution patterns and who will be playing the bulk of the minutes in normal situations.

                        EDIT: we are developing the depth now as 3 of our top 7 have been out all at the same time with injuries, one concussion, one ankle, and one broken foot in a cast.....man we need to get healthy soon!
                        I think we're saying the same thing, just defining the word "rotation" differently. I'm speaking of players who will see significant minutes under normal situations (not counting injuries, early foul trouble, and blowouts). For example, Anthony Carter should see the floor in rare situations, but I don't consider him part of the "rotation". If Calderon is our starter, Bayless will back him up. That's the PG rotation. Carter only provides emergency relief.

                        Good teams are never considered 11+ players deep, even though 11+ players will see the floor at some point during the season.

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                        • #27
                          Is anyone else surprised to find out that aaron gray was a four-time all-star? Anyways, I always get excited just before the beginning of the first game, but regardless, I'm very, very happy with the players we picked up.
                          -"You canít run from me. I mean, my heart donít bleed Kool-Aid."
                          -"ďI ainít no diva! I donít have no blond hair, red hair. Iím Reggie Evans.Ē

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                          • #28
                            Raptorsss wrote: View Post
                            Is anyone else surprised to find out that aaron gray was a four-time all-star? Anyways, I always get excited just before the beginning of the first game, but regardless, I'm very, very happy with the players we picked up.
                            i read that and couldn't stop laughing. I seriously don't know where they get this information from.

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                            • #29
                              NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
                              i read that and couldn't stop laughing. I seriously don't know where they get this information from.
                              I read that here:
                              http://www.montrealgazette.com/sport...611/story.html

                              Those are better than Chris Paul's Numbers!

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                              • #30
                                planetmars wrote: View Post
                                I read that here:
                                http://www.montrealgazette.com/sport...611/story.html

                                Those are better than Chris Paul's Numbers!
                                ya i read it there too. Where did they get these stats from? they completely pulled that out of their ass's

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