Second Worst Offense in the League?

[Apollo]

Detroit is averaging 85PPG and the Raptors are at 86PPG. They are currently 9th in defense. This season is eerily similar to Kevin O'Neil's one season in Toronto in terms of a drastic philosophy change which led to a huge improvement and defense but also to an abysmal offensive output. Both squads also struggled due to a lack of talent during a rebuild phase. That's where the similarities end though because I don't think Casey is going to lose his mind and toss management under the bus in year one...

[Nilanka]

O'Neil at least had offensive talent to work with (Carter, Rose, Marshall, Bosh, A.Davis, A.Williams), etc.

The only player Casey has that's capable of scoring 20 points on consecutive nights is Bargnani, who hasn't played half the year.

Although the team numbers are similar, O'Neil's team was far more of a disappointment offensively when you factor in the roster's potential.

[WJF]

O'Neil at least had offensive talent to work with (Carter, Rose, Marshall, Bosh, A.Davis, A.Williams), etc.

The only player Casey has that's capable of scoring 20 points on consecutive nights is Bargnani, who hasn't played half the year.

Although the team numbers are similar, O'Neil's team was far more of a disappointment offensively when you factor in the roster's potential.

This.

[Apollo]

O'Neil at least had offensive talent to work with (Carter, Rose, Marshall, Bosh, A.Davis, A.Williams), etc.

The only player Casey has that's capable of scoring 20 points on consecutive nights is Bargnani, who hasn't played half the year.

Although the team numbers are similar, O'Neil's team was far more of a disappointment offensively when you factor in the roster's potential.

• They didn't have Antonio Davis that year.
• Rose and Marshall weren't traded to Toronto until a quarter of the way through. Then Rose broke his hand down the stretch.
• Bosh was a rookie and had hardly no offensive game. He couldn't hit the mid range. All he had was a quick first step. He was just as limited as DeRozan was in his rookie season.
• Alvin Williams was practically only playing on one leg and missed nearly half the season. He only played a handful of games for the rest of his career after he shut it down that season.
• Their best point guard was Milt Palacio. He had no court vision, he had a crappy jumper and he even tossed up bricks on easy layups.
• Lamond Murray, a guy they gave up a 1st rounder to acquire, missed nearly the entire season.
• Mo Pete was their only bench option at all who had offensive talent.

The 2003-04 Raptors roster was bad and it was plagued by injuries to some key players. Still, they only missed the playoffs by a few games.

[NoPropsneeded]

That sounds soo much like this years roster. DD and JJ have a lot of offensive potential but they are playing like complete garbage.

[Apollo]

The only thing O'Neil had going for him was that the east was a lot weaker then than it is now.

[Balls of Steel]

That sounds soo much like this years roster. DD and JJ have a lot of offensive potential but they are playing like complete garbage.

I'm sorry, saying JJ has lots of offensive potential is like saying Reggie Evans had oodles of game on O.

[NoPropsneeded]

I'm sorry, saying JJ has lots of offensive potential is like saying Reggie Evans had oodles of game on O.

no he actually does. He's Athletic, his jumper is improving and he can hit some tough shots in the paint.

[golden]

The only thing O'Neil had going for him was that the east was a lot weaker then than it is now.

O'Neill is a very good coach who, just like Butch Carter, gets a bad rap because of off-court personality issues (i.e. breaking lamps in hotels, dissing the GM, etc..).

[slaw]

Kevin O'Neill was and is an awful coach. He's been run out of every place he's ever been. I know that a lot of people are starting to point to that team but I don't think it's a good comp. That team was supposed to be a veteran team challenging for the playoffs and it badly underachieved for a whole host of reasons. This current roster is arguably the worst roster in the history of the franchise, including the first two expansion years. That's saying something. Plus, no one with an ounce of sense had any expectations this team could compete, let along make the playoffs. Just two very different scenarios.

The deja vu I do get though is that after that 02-03 year, they got rid of Wilkens and O'Neill was going to be the saviour. He was going to bring a new era of accountability and toughness to the locker. The team would play defense, no more wussies. I remember watching countless clips of O'Neill yelling at Carter to get up and how that was the greatest thing ever and it was going to spur Carter to play better. That part is eerily familiar.

[mcHAPPY]

Kevin O'Neill was and is an awful coach. He's been run out of every place he's ever been. I know that a lot of people are starting to point to that team but I don't think it's a good comp. That team was supposed to be a veteran team challenging for the playoffs and it badly underachieved for a whole host of reasons. This current roster is arguably the worst roster in the history of the franchise, including the first two expansion years. That's saying something. Plus, no one with an ounce of sense had any expectations this team could compete, let along make the playoffs. Just two very different scenarios.

The deja vu I do get though is that after that 02-03 year, they got rid of Wilkens and O'Neill was going to be the saviour. He was going to bring a new era of accountability and toughness to the locker. The team would play defense, no more wussies. I remember watching countless clips of O'Neill yelling at Carter to get up and how that was the greatest thing ever and it was going to spur Carter to play better. That part is eerily familiar.

I don't recall seeing Casey yelling at players so far this year.

I recall O'Neill being a screamer. I look at Casey as teacher.

Am I off base with my view of Casey?

[slaw]

I don't recall seeing Casey yelling at players so far this year.

I recall O'Neill being a screamer. I look at Casey as teacher.

Am I off base with my view of Casey?

No, not so much comparing O'Neill to Casey as coaches (Casey hasn't been run out of every job like O'Neill so I'll assume he's far better) as comparing the fan and media reaction to a new defensive-minded coach who was going to come in and change the culture and fix everything. It just doesn't work that way.

I am not criticizing Casey cause the guy has no chance with this roster, rather just pointing out that maybe there should be less emphasis on anlayzing/praising/criticizing coaches and more energy spent on looking at the rosters over the last 5 years. Cause, you know, maybe it wasn't all Triano's fault after all?

[Apollo]

O'Neill is a very good coach who, just like Butch Carter, gets a bad rap because of off-court personality issues (i.e. breaking lamps in hotels, dissing the GM, etc..).

Yeah. Both threw their GM under the bus very publicly. If you look up "Untactful" in the dictionary you'll find a picture of Butch and Kev holding hands.

By the way, Kev is a hero at USC now...

[ceez]

no he actually does. He's Athletic, his jumper is improving and he can hit some tough shots in the paint.

..have you seen JJ play?

[Soft Euro]

No, not so much comparing O'Neill to Casey as coaches (Casey hasn't been run out of every job like O'Neill so I'll assume he's far better) as comparing the fan and media reaction to a new defensive-minded coach who was going to come in and change the culture and fix everything. It just doesn't work that way.

I am not criticizing Casey cause the guy has no chance with this roster, rather just pointing out that maybe there should be less emphasis on anlayzing/praising/criticizing coaches and more energy spent on looking at the rosters over the last 5 years. Cause, you know, maybe it wasn't all Triano's fault after all?

Changing a culture does work, but it takes time and more changes (roster indeed). But of course, it doesn't always work.

In my opinion it was never (primarily) Triano's fault. I believe he did the best he could and if he wasn't good enough (which I think he wasn't) that's not (primarily) his fault, but a mistake by management. I completely understand a coach doesn't step down himself when things don't work out. For one, he might think he can improve, or not see that it is (partly) his fault. Secondly, stepping down yourself might have a lot of financial consequences (I assume).