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The mystery of Amir Johnson - why no amnesty talk for his terrible contract?

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  • The mystery of Amir Johnson - why no amnesty talk for his terrible contract?

    Been reading everyones posts for years but I am very surprised that all the talk is around Jose, Ed, Kleiza or Barbosa....amnesty trade amnesty or trade. Honestly for a guy who should be a shining light with Andrea out Amir has to be the biggest disapointment of the season. DD is at least trying. I know that Amir is going through some "personal issues" but REB 6.1 AST 1.2 STL 0.7 BLK 0.8 PTS 6.4 is terrible.

    Seems like a good guy and likes to play in Toronto...but I'm just saying get trade Jose sure but this guy opens up a lot of options for us next year if he is gone

  • #2
    "personal issues"? What would that be?

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    • #3
      the_gibba wrote: View Post
      Been reading everyones posts for years but I am very surprised that all the talk is around Jose, Ed, Kleiza or Barbosa....amnesty trade amnesty or trade. Honestly for a guy who should be a shining light with Andrea out Amir has to be the biggest disapointment of the season. DD is at least trying. I know that Amir is going through some "personal issues" but REB 6.1 AST 1.2 STL 0.7 BLK 0.8 PTS 6.4 is terrible.

      Seems like a good guy and likes to play in Toronto...but I'm just saying get trade Jose sure but this guy opens up a lot of options for us next year if he is gone
      Seriously? I mean, seriously?

      Comment


      • #4
        I have a couple observations on this topic:

        1) No amnesty talk is primarily due to the belief that Amir should have some legit trade value, or at least he did over the first 10 or so games of the season. For a backup PF / 1st big off the bench, young player with experience, good hustle and constant effort (again, last few games aside), $6M per season isn't really that bad of a contract.

        2) I would say that a vast majority of RR posters are in agreement that between now and the start of next season, at least one of Bargnani/Amir/Davis need to be traded, with Valanciunas on his way. Barbosa is widely agreed upon as the most likely player to be traded, but I would suggest that the next tier of "likely Raptors to be traded this season" would consist of Calderon, Bayless and one of the bigs. Amir doesn't get the press simply because he's not expiring (Barbosa & Bayless) and there aren't persistent rumors about him (Calderon).

        3) There was definitely lots of talk about trading Amir in the offseason, usually in a discussion about which of the 3 bigs to trade. I got in several debates, primarly with Tim W, about Bargnani VS Amir. Given Bargnani's improvements and Amir's regression (or "personal problems"), I would assume that the debate is now Amir VS Davis. I stand by my offseason arguments that Amir should be the one traded, leaving Valanciunas, Bargnani and Davis as the 3 bigs for next season. As I said in point #2, I think Amir doesn't get brought up as much as Barbosa/Calderon because he has been such a fan favourite, isn't expiring, has no rumors floating around and has been a good player for this team up to the past few games.

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        • #5
          any colour there Maleko?

          Comment


          • #6
            There's no point in amnestying anyone (whether it's Calderon, Kleiza or Amir) until we need the cap space. If a deal presents itself where we need cap space, THEN consider amnestying someone. Until then, even Amir's poor numbers provide more value to this team than him not playing at all.

            As for Kleiza, can we realistically expect his surgically repaired knee to handle another 3 years of consistent use? I bet he's the most likely amnesty candidate based on this reason alone.

            Comment


            • #7
              Can we all just cool it on the trade Amir/DeRozan/Bayless talk.

              Look

              1.) If Amir says he is going through some personal shit, I believe him. The man has nearly died on the court every night for the Raptors and I'm confident his production will pick up again. You don't trade a man because his production dips. If you truly want to trade him for the benefit of the team, you let him play his value up so he ends up in a good situation for all his efforts here.

              2.) DeRozan is now the focus of defenses...had no training camp/new coach and they guy that opens up the floor for him has been injured. A more experienced player would know how to adapt and still get buckets. DeRozan is not a more experienced player. Since this season is about development and learning...seems to me this will be invaluable for him. That being said...he works to damn hard for him and soon he will just "get it".

              3.) The man has been handed inconsistent roles, teams, minutes since he landed in the NBA. The man is Ben Gordon and they want him to be Steve Nash. Eventually Barbosa will be traded and the 6th man role is where he will thrive.

              How many of us (self included) look absolutely ridiculous for screaming trade Bargnani for the last 3-5 years?
              For still frame photograph of me reading the DeRozan thread please refer to my avatar

              Comment


              • #8
                Contribute his poor production to the fact he's being asked to play center and injuries. As Matt's said in a few threads, he should be shut down for a few games so he can get back to 100%. Amir's one of the last people we should even think about amnestying.
                @sweatpantsjer

                Comment


                • #9
                  Bendit wrote: View Post
                  "personal issues"? What would that be?
                  Not sure, but Doug mentioned it in his blog today:
                  http://thestar.blogs.com/raptors/201...betting-1.html

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    the_gibba wrote: View Post
                    Been reading everyones posts for years but I am very surprised that all the talk is around Jose, Ed, Kleiza or Barbosa....amnesty trade amnesty or trade. Honestly for a guy who should be a shining light with Andrea out Amir has to be the biggest disapointment of the season. DD is at least trying. I know that Amir is going through some "personal issues" but REB 6.1 AST 1.2 STL 0.7 BLK 0.8 PTS 6.4 is terrible.

                    Seems like a good guy and likes to play in Toronto...but I'm just saying get trade Jose sure but this guy opens up a lot of options for us next year if he is gone
                    The numbers dont tell the story. Amir is 10% of all the salaries and yet he is the goto guy for all things defensive in the paint. He rebounds and plays his a$$ off a real pro. I am on record as being a huge Amir fan.
                    "I may be wrong ... but I doubt it"

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      the_gibba wrote: View Post
                      Been reading everyones posts for years but I am very surprised that all the talk is around Jose, Ed, Kleiza or Barbosa....amnesty trade amnesty or trade. Honestly for a guy who should be a shining light with Andrea out Amir has to be the biggest disapointment of the season. DD is at least trying. I know that Amir is going through some "personal issues" but REB 6.1 AST 1.2 STL 0.7 BLK 0.8 PTS 6.4 is terrible.

                      Seems like a good guy and likes to play in Toronto...but I'm just saying get trade Jose sure but this guy opens up a lot of options for us next year if he is gone
                      I can see your new, so I wont say anything. This time.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Amir should be shut down for a few games, in my opinion. His thumb is not right. He doesn't seem to have the same hops which I'd attribute to his off season ankle surgery. Plus given there are "personal issues" going on, it would give him some time to clear them up or at least get them in order - however the previously mentioned physical issues are a bigger concern to me.

                        The last thing I would even consider with Amir is amnesty.

                        I hate agreeing with Devlin on anything (almost as much as Leo) but Bargnani certainly does open things up for Amir. Not having Bargnani in the line up is another excuse to throw in the mix for his drop off in production - production meaning the stat line, the lack of intangibles like energy and hustle are not excused.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          thead wrote: View Post
                          Can we all just cool it on the trade Amir/DeRozan/Bayless talk.
                          Why? I think it is all legitimate discussion, as long as it's not just "I hate him, he sucks, lets trade him for a pack of gum" type discussion, in which case I would completely agree with you.

                          Bayless
                          - proving critics right that he is not (and likely will never become) a pass-first floor-general type of PG, as a starter or backup
                          - an expiring contract that could be a sparkplug off the bench for a playoff contender, who should definitely not be re-signed at or above his qualifying offer value of approx. $4.5M
                          - I'd be happy trading him (alone or in a package) for a 1st-round pick or a proven starting wing

                          Amir
                          - widely agreed in media and here on RR, that one of Bargnani, Amir or Davis needs to be traded at some point before the start of next season, to make room for Valanciunas
                          - Bargnani's significantly all-around improvement is/was making it pretty clear that the decision was going to come down to Amir/Davis
                          - regardless which of Amir/Davis it ends up being and/or when it ends up happening, discussing the idea of trading Amir is legit
                          - I'd be happy trading him (alone or in a package) for a 1st-round pick or a proven starting wing, or alone for TPE (cap space could be used to sign a free agent next offseason and/or TPE could be used to trade for a player once cap space is used up)

                          DeRozan
                          - I agree that we shouldn't jump the gun, but there is legit reason to worry and question his place as a cornerstone building-block type player for a "building" franchise
                          - I certainly wouldn't want to just dump him, but if I could include him in a package to get an established wing (ie: Gay, Mayo, etc..) or straight-up for an additional top-10 lottery pick, it would certainly be worth serious consideration/discussion
                          - I'd only trade him (alone or in a package) for a proven starting wing, or alone for a guaranteed top-10 draft pick


                          Obviously I would only entertain discussion that is based on trading Raptors assets at peak value and getting fair market value return, be it for Bayless, Amir, DeRozan, Barbosa or anybody else. The problem is that BC won't provide RR with all trade proposals being discussed, so we don't truly know the current market value of Raptors assets... for shame BC, share with RR!!


                          At this point in time, I see no reason to consider using the amnesty clause on any Raptor, unless they absolutely can't find any other way to positively free up cap space required to make a significant free agent signing next offseason. At that point, it would be fair to evaluate the amnesty/signing almost as a trade, since they would essentially be cutting 1 player to sign another. Since the deadline has passed to use the amnesty clause this season, this is all a bit of a moot point anyway, at least until the offseason.
                          Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Fri Feb 3rd, 2012, 01:49 PM.

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                          • #14
                            Sup Gibba ... yeh, I agree the man is playing like shit. He or Ed will be gone, but it won't be through amnesty - he is too young, and not that bad of a contract if you look at some of the overpaid bench bigs out there.

                            I'd argue that he is very close to his ceiling of potential, but what he is today is something that will appeal to many teams in the NBA (yes, even at the current salary) ... He just isn't an NBA starter in my opinion, and maybe too much is being asked of him - especially with Il Mago out of the lineup.
                            The only way to bag a classy lady is to give her two tickets to the gun show... and see if she likes the goods.

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                            • #15
                              the_gibba wrote: View Post
                              any colour there Maleko?
                              I'm not even sure what this is supposed to mean.

                              ceez wrote: View Post
                              Contribute his poor production to the fact he's being asked to play center and injuries. As Matt's said in a few threads, he should be shut down for a few games so he can get back to 100%. Amir's one of the last people we should even think about amnestying.
                              100% agree.

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