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  • #16
    The main thing to remember is that "bench player" is not an insult. At least not if you aim at a ring. Harden is a bench player, and he's waaaay better than DD.

    JJ would be a great SF backup, and I'm not talking about 2011/12 JJ, I'm thinking of what he'll become in the next 2 years.

    He's definitely part of the contending plan, but this draft has at least 2 if not more SFs that have a higher ceiling than him. Of course, they could be busts, but what's the risk ? The other top prospects are PFs, where we already have starter/backup covered.

    That's a safe bet to take.

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    • #17
      I think any wing player would be beneficial to this team.

      The way its looking is there will be 2 to 3 good SF's in the top end of the draft where we will be, and the rest are PF's. I think we should aim at taking a SF.

      If Wilson Chandler is available to us in the offseason I think we go after him. He can play both the SF and SG positions. We could start either DeMar or him at SG and the other guy can come in as a sixth man.

      For Centre, I think we are okay as long as we retain Gray. He has put in valuable minutes and will be a good back up for Jonas. Plus give him a full off-season to get in better shape and to improve his game, I think he will be a good back up in this league.

      With Barnes or MKG, J.J. and Kleiza (J.J. and Kleiza can also play some 4) we have our three spot covered for years to come.

      We are deep at the PF position. I think we should keep all 3. Bargnani starting, Ed backing up, and Amir covering both the PF and Centre positions

      As for PG, I think Calderon should be around next year, but I think we should try to add Dragic or another younger PG. If we can get another draft pick this year I think this is the way to go. Most of the PG's in this years draft will go from 15-30.


      I would like to see Bayless, Butler, Carter, Big Cat, and Barbosa (if we can get someone like Chandler)


      I think with this team we would be in the playoffs next year and then be a contender for years to come...if we stay healthy


      Jonas/Gray/Amir
      Andrea/Ed/Amir
      Barnes or MKG/Chandler/J.J./Kleiza
      DeMar/Chandler/Forbes
      Calderon/Dragic/Kabongo,Marshall,Teague or Lillard

      After next season Calderon's contract will be up, maybe we can resign him, but in a lesser role as the younger guys continue to improve.
      Last edited by saints91; Mon Feb 20, 2012, 07:50 PM.

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      • #18
        Im continuing to see alot of disbelief in Demar Derozan. I mean, hes in a brand new culture, a culture he's never been in, a year of large changes after being sooo successful, and we continue to have no faith in possibly one of our best chances at a big time player, I don't know if anyone saw what he did last seasons, and mind you, a couple of games this season.

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        • #19
          He's been inconsistent, but he's a third year player, hes feeling the "sophomore blues" most players go through in the second year.

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          • #20
            Yeah but third year players aren't sophomore players...
            @sweatpantsjer

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            • #21
              Clearly we are not a good enough team to overlook any option at the draft save for a 4 or 5. That being said you can place me at the front of the line for the James Johnson fan club, I think he will be a invaluable piece going forward. Casey is a defensive minded coach and JJ seems to be that sort of do it all player that most good teams have and need to be successful. I would rather have a better option at the 2 to relieve the scoring pressure and let JJ do his thing on the other end. However if the BPA come draft time is a 3 I say we grab him because the thing this team needs most is talent, the rest will work itself out.

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              • #22
                EasyE wrote: View Post
                Think about it this way, who do you want starting in 2 years?

                PG: No current raptor
                SG: No current raptor
                SF: No current raptor
                PF: Andrea Bargnani (or Anthony Davis if we land him)
                C: Jonas Valanciunas
                It's sad but so true. We're building up the likes of Ed and Demar who are not what we make them out to be.

                I may go with Drummond instead of Davis as we'll probably need someone who can bang with the likes of a Zach.R, Bynum, etc and also do some physical punishing on the both ends of the court.

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                • #23
                  Well maybe he has it the other way around mentally? I don't know, all I can say is he's inconsistent, but young. He's going to have ups and downs.

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                  • #24
                    EasyE wrote: View Post
                    Think about it this way, who do you want starting in 2 years?

                    PG: No current raptor
                    SG: No current raptor
                    SF: No current raptor
                    PF: Andrea Bargnani (or Anthony Davis if we land him)
                    C: Jonas Valanciunas
                    i would trade down to 2 or 3 if we won the lottery. this team needs a sf. i think that drafting and keeping davis just restarts the who we need where unless bargs gets moved for a 3. id rather bargs with mkg or barnes with big V in the middle.


                    and i think our needs are 3 *2* 1. we still have jose for a year, it would be great to change him out but not at the expense of lesser talent now at the position. 10 million after he is done next year is enough money to sign a player of great quality.

                    i asterixed 2 because i think that demar can and will prove he can play there. with bargs and "hypothetically" barnes on the floor there would of a lot of room on the floor if demar can dribble.

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                    • #25
                      Nicolas Batum

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                      • #26
                        Yes, the Raptors definitely need to jump at the chance to land a stud wing player!

                        JJ and Kleiza are backup players, not legit all-around starters. Kleiza is a scorer who can play SF/PF, but is streaky and therefore most effective in short bursts. JJ should not be defending PFs and shouldn't play anything but SF, plus his defense is overrated and offense is horrible. If/when the Raptors become a truly good team, there would be significant matchup benefits to having both JJ & Kleiza available to come off the bench.

                        Even DeRozan, who should be able to play SG & SF, is starting to lose his grip on "franchise cornerstone, definite long-term core piece of the starting lineup" role. I sincerely hope he can turn it around and improve his game, to become what we all hoped/expected he would become this season, but I certainly wouldn't let his play influence the draft pick. Again, hopefully DD can turn it around the rest of this season and come into the 2012-2013 season strong.

                        At best, the Raptors have 1 legit starting wing and 2 solid backups. At worst, the Raptors have no legit starters and 3 solid backups. Regardless, I hope BC picks the best all around wing available, then deals with any logjams after the draft. For me, I think/hope it comes down to Barnes/MKG with a top-6 pick. I really like Beal as well, but I think the Raps would need to acquire another late lottery pick to have any shot at him (and it would likely mean the end of DeRozan's time in Toronto, if the Raps targeted a SF and SG).

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                        • #27
                          Re: JJ
                          CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
                          his defense is overrated
                          Please explain. I don't know how you can overrate the one guy who keeps his own man in check while also negating a number of his teammates' defensive gaffes every game.

                          He's no saviour at SF, but defense is the one thing he does at an elite level right now.
                          Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

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                          • #28
                            jimmie wrote: View Post
                            Re: JJ

                            Please explain. I don't know how you can overrate the one guy who keeps his own man in check while also negating a number of his teammates' defensive gaffes every game.

                            He's no saviour at SF, but defense is the one thing he does at an elite level right now.
                            I think JJ is a good defender, but I do think he gets overrated, especially being one of the few decent defenders on what has historically been a terrible defensive team.

                            He's a good perimeter defender, but not elite and certainly not a lock-down defender. He still has potential to improve, but he's hardly a 'stopper'. He's also a good help defender, but I find that at times he is too aggressive looking for a block/steal, leaving his man open. As for guarding PFs, I would shudder to think about him doing that any more often than when both teams are going small (but then he's just guarding a fellow SF, just in the '4' spot in the lineup).

                            I think he's a good defender and would like him on the team, as I stated. I just don't think he's a legit long-term answer to the starting SF position on the Raptors. I certainly wouldn't bypass drafting Barnes or MKG for the reason of "it's ok, we have JJ at the 3"!!!

                            For me, an ideal forward lineup for the Raps next season would be:
                            PF: Bargnani, Davis/Amir, Kleiza
                            SF: Barnes/MKG, J.Johnson, Kleiza

                            It would give Casey lots of lineup flexibility at these positions, and even more flexibility if you consider lineups where more than two of these players could be on the court together (ie: Bargnani playing the 5 in a smaller lineup, Barnes/MKG/JJ playing the 2 in a bigger lineup).
                            Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Tue Feb 21, 2012, 06:17 PM.

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                            • #29
                              CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
                              I think JJ is a good defender, but I do think he gets overrated, especially being one of the few decent defenders on what has historically been a terrible defensive team.

                              He's a good perimeter defender, but not elite and certainly not a lock-down defender. He still has potential to improve, but he's hardly a 'stopper'. He's also a good help defender, but I find that at times he is too aggressive looking for a block/steal, leaving his man open. As for guarding PFs, I would shudder to think about him doing that any more often than when both teams are going small (but then he's just guarding a fellow SF, just in the '4' spot in the lineup).

                              I think he's a good defender and would like him on the team, as I stated. I just don't think he's a legit long-term answer to the starting SF position on the Raptors. I certainly wouldn't bypass drafting Barnes or MKG for the reason of "it's ok, we have JJ at the 3"!!!

                              For me, an ideal forward lineup for the Raps next season would be:
                              PF: Bargnani, Davis/Amir, Kleiza
                              SF: Barnes/MKG, J.Johnson, Kleiza

                              It would give Casey lots of lineup flexibility at these positions, and even more flexibility if you consider lineups where more than two of these players could be on the court together (ie: Bargnani playing the 5 in a smaller lineup, Barnes/MKG/JJ playing the 2 in a bigger lineup).
                              No ones saying we shouldn't draft a SF cause of james. But JJ is definitely not overrated, he's a great defender and leads the team in blocks and i think steals too. We are no longer the bad defensive team we once were so you can't say "He's a decent defender on a bad team". He Definitely has the ability to become an elite defender and crack a couple of all defensive teams.

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                              • #30
                                Yes...

                                We need a top teir 2 or 3(starting to really doubt DD). We have our 4/5 positions all but locked up, there is not a huge crop of PG's in this draft.

                                I'm a huge fan of JJ. Love his game, and think he is going be a great 1st off the bench SF, but he has yet to show that he can be the offensive threat we need.

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