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Raptors Midseason Report Card: D

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  • ReubenJRD
    replied
    minks77 wrote: View Post
    I know 12r/game'll be tough and would put him in a special category hence why I said "big time numbers". Ed could well be a starter alongside JV if they decide to move Andrea at some point in the future. I have high hopes for the kid, I think he has great tools and given the chance he could be a special kind of role player.
    Bargnani is most likely a part of this team's future.

    Leave a comment:


  • enlightenment
    replied
    Papa Burgundy wrote: View Post
    If you get: B, C+, C, C & D ... why does that equal an overall D?
    hahaha, I was prepared to ask which genius averaged those out together, theyve got a skewed idea of arithmetic

    Leave a comment:


  • minks77
    replied
    Hugmenot wrote: View Post
    For Ed Davis to average 12 rpg player, he would need to first become a star (all around or 1st or 2nd all defensive team) or play heavy minutes on really bad team. I don't see the former as being realistic and I hope the latter will not be realized.

    You can peruse the following web page to see how few players average 12+ rebounds per game in any one season.

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/..._g_top_10.html

    Reggie Evans had the best rebounding rate last year, yet not many teams were interested in his service and his minutes were cut by 40% this year.
    I know 12r/game'll be tough and would put him in a special category hence why I said "big time numbers". Ed could well be a starter alongside JV if they decide to move Andrea at some point in the future. I have high hopes for the kid, I think he has great tools and given the chance he could be a special kind of role player.

    Leave a comment:


  • minks77
    replied
    I agree that he needs a mentor. I also agree that Amir's moves are slow, but he sinks the rock and at this point that's more than you can say for Ed. As for Andrea being a post player, well, I agree. He's not primarily a post player but when hes gone down there and operated in a more traditional fashion he's showed some nice stuff and is light years ahead of Ed Davis. Keep in mind that you posited that Ed had the best post moves and that his low post offence was the best on the team.

    Lastly what does a headband or a "traditional" pf have to do with anything? There isn't a traditional 4 or 5 on this team (most teams actually) but there are guys who operate in the low post and utilize some aspects of a traditional post players offence.

    Leave a comment:


  • NoPropsneeded
    replied
    minks77 wrote: View Post
    I can see him as a passable offensive player, an above average or better defender and an excellent rebounder. He understands positioning, boxes out well and has excellent timing with his weak side shot blocking. 10/12/2 would be the big time numbers I see for him. Wet dream numbers would be 16/14/3.

    There's a reason they don't run any of the offence through him: At this point he has none. You must have access to practice to be able to see all of these post moves because I rarely see an in game post move (or face up jumper) that results in a made basket. He had largely the same issue at NC and even draft express had him labelled as a raw
    offensive player. There is hope though: he's a gym rat, son of a former NBA player, is young (especially considering all the time he missed with the broken wrist in college) and has length and athletiscm. Plus he's really improved his FT shooting this year so there's hope his J is fixable.

    As for players with better post moves on the Raps? I'll give you two: Amir and Andrea. Amir is much more comfortable operating with his back to the basket and in the post at this point than Ed. They actually look for him on the block, generally a good sign that they trust you to do something positive with the rock while down there. Andrea has truly become a threat down there as well and when he was healthy he was backing guys down, able to spin left or right, had a nice little head and shoulder fake going and was able to get into the lane with any number of moves and finish whichever way the D would give him, be it a hook, reverse layup, floater, dunk or j. It's honestly not even close at this point.
    I don't see andrea as a post player at all besides the turnaround jumper. He mainly faces up and shoots or drives past his defender. He is operating in the post a little more but he doesn't play like a traditional PF. Amir has like slow motion post moves most of his points are from the pick n roll and putbacks. He has that weird looking hook shot but thats it. Ed davis was playing great last season rocking the headband. If you watched him he was doing up and unders and a lot of crafty things down there. Idk what happened this season. We need to bring in Antonio Davis to work with Ed, he should be molding his entire game like AD.

    Leave a comment:


  • Hugmenot
    replied
    minks77 wrote: View Post
    I can see him as a passable offensive player, an above average or better defender and an excellent rebounder. He understands positioning, boxes out well and has excellent timing with his weak side shot blocking. 10/12/2 would be the big time numbers I see for him. Wet dream numbers would be 16/14/3.
    For Ed Davis to average 12 rpg player, he would need to first become a star (all around or 1st or 2nd all defensive team) or play heavy minutes on really bad team. I don't see the former as being realistic and I hope the latter will not be realized.

    You can peruse the following web page to see how few players average 12+ rebounds per game in any one season.

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/..._g_top_10.html

    Reggie Evans had the best rebounding rate last year, yet not many teams were interested in his service and his minutes were cut by 40% this year.

    Leave a comment:


  • CalgaryRapsFan
    replied
    minks77 wrote: View Post
    I can see him as a passable offensive player, an above average or better defender and an excellent rebounder. He understands positioning, boxes out well and has excellent timing with his weak side shot blocking. 10/12/2 would be the big time numbers I see for him. Wet dream numbers would be 16/14/3.

    There's a reason they don't run any of the offence through him: At this point he has none. You must have access to practice to be able to see all of these post moves because I rarely see an in game post move (or face up jumper) that results in a made basket. He had largely the same issue at NC and even draft express had him labelled as a raw
    offensive player. There is hope though: he's a gym rat, son of a former NBA player, is young (especially considering all the time he missed with the broken wrist in college) and has length and athletiscm. Plus he's really improved his FT shooting this year so there's hope his J is fixable.

    As for players with better post moves on the Raps? I'll give you two: Amir and Andrea. Amir is much more comfortable operating with his back to the basket and in the post at this point than Ed. They actually look for him on the block, generally a good sign that they trust you to do something positive with the rock while down there. Andrea has truly become a threat down there as well and when he was healthy he was backing guys down, able to spin left or right, had a nice little head and shoulder fake going and was able to get into the lane with any number of moves and finish whichever way the D would give him, be it a hook, reverse layup, floater, dunk or j. It's honestly not even close at this point.
    100% Agreed.

    It's frustrating watching Davis miss so many shots within 5' of the basket. He goes up weak too often, settling for quick layups (like he's rushing to avoid being blocked) instead of setting himself and going up strong for a dunk. His offense is terrible right now, but he's full of potential and should quite easily develop an above-average post-game and solid all around offensive game, thanks to his offensive rebounding prowess. It's his potential, not his current play, that has me so strongly advocating for the Raps to keep him and trade Amir.

    Leave a comment:


  • minks77
    replied
    NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    you should be asking the first question to yourself first. He has post moves i really don't know what your looking at man. He barley gets offensive opportunities where they throw him the ball and let him work. Most of his points are put back and pick n roll. Sometimes he'd get the ball and post up and throw up a hook shot that usually goes in. And I've also seen him hit a couple of face up jumpers which he's working on. i love how you say he has zero offense and can't do anything and then you say he'll be a "big time player for the raps in the future" if you have no post moves to begin with how are you going to be big time? I said it before and I'll say it again Ed Davis does have post moves and will probably end up being the best post player on the raptors. He has an up and under, a very good hook shot, saying he can't back anyone down is a stupid statement because we've all seen him do it. Btw name one player who is a better post player on our team?
    I can see him as a passable offensive player, an above average or better defender and an excellent rebounder. He understands positioning, boxes out well and has excellent timing with his weak side shot blocking. 10/12/2 would be the big time numbers I see for him. Wet dream numbers would be 16/14/3.

    There's a reason they don't run any of the offence through him: At this point he has none. You must have access to practice to be able to see all of these post moves because I rarely see an in game post move (or face up jumper) that results in a made basket. He had largely the same issue at NC and even draft express had him labelled as a raw
    offensive player. There is hope though: he's a gym rat, son of a former NBA player, is young (especially considering all the time he missed with the broken wrist in college) and has length and athletiscm. Plus he's really improved his FT shooting this year so there's hope his J is fixable.

    As for players with better post moves on the Raps? I'll give you two: Amir and Andrea. Amir is much more comfortable operating with his back to the basket and in the post at this point than Ed. They actually look for him on the block, generally a good sign that they trust you to do something positive with the rock while down there. Andrea has truly become a threat down there as well and when he was healthy he was backing guys down, able to spin left or right, had a nice little head and shoulder fake going and was able to get into the lane with any number of moves and finish whichever way the D would give him, be it a hook, reverse layup, floater, dunk or j. It's honestly not even close at this point.

    Leave a comment:


  • NoPropsneeded
    replied
    I agree that he's a work in progress but your making him sound like Biyombo on offense

    Leave a comment:


  • NoPropsneeded
    replied
    you should be asking the first question to yourself first. He has post moves i really don't know what your looking at man. He barley gets offensive opportunities where they throw him the ball and let him work. Most of his points are put back and pick n roll. Sometimes he'd get the ball and post up and throw up a hook shot that usually goes in. And I've also seen him hit a couple of face up jumpers which he's working on. i love how you say he has zero offense and can't do anything and then you say he'll be a "big time player for the raps in the future" if you have no post moves to begin with how are you going to be big time? I said it before and I'll say it again Ed Davis does have post moves and will probably end up being the best post player on the raptors. He has an up and under, a very good hook shot, saying he can't back anyone down is a stupid statement because we've all seen him do it. Btw name one player who is a better post player on our team?

    Leave a comment:


  • minks77
    replied
    Do you even watch him play? He cannot hit open foul line jumpers at all (missed a gimme in the 2nd q vs detroit tonight) and even in close he's usually long on his hook shots (back rim and air balls) and has zero post moves. No up and under, no dependable hook, can't back anyone down, no back to the basket moves... Dude has an offensive game that is very much a work in progress. His d is light years ahead of his o and even that hasn't been good enough to keep him on the floor.

    I like Ed a lot and think he'll be a big time player for the raps in the future, but I don't know how you can say he's our best post player on o.

    Leave a comment:


  • NoPropsneeded
    replied
    Ed davis does not have aaron gray range. Robotic is not even close to what he is in the post. He's an excellent post player and probably has the best post moves on the entire team. He just does not have the strength to back that up. He will improve over time and I'm not ready to give up on him

    Leave a comment:


  • minks77
    replied
    NBA.com gets in incomplete grade for an incomplete report card. I'm at work but this is how I see it:

    Not that anyone asked for it but here's my Report Card:

    Back Court: Overall CFORWARDS: B/C Centres: D/FCoach: D-/A
    Casey has gotten his players to buy in and has tailored and adjusted his system to, gasp, SUIT THE PLAYERS ON THE ROSTER! What an out of the box thought! An NBA coach who isn't just going to hammer a square peg into a round hole (ahem, Mark Jackson). As great a revelation he's been at one end it's kinda, well, ugly on the other. Injuries have played a part but the team doesn't really have much of an identity at that end. They aren't much good in the half court, guys aren't moving without the ball and the fast break isn't all that effective. Maybe an offensive guru the way Doc Rivers needed Thibs on D or how Carlisle did with Casey.

    Front Orifice: N/A
    BC et al have built us a team that is exactly what he said it would be: built for next year. No albatross contracts, bunch of one year rentals that have zero chance of being here in the long term. Loads of cap room. An extremely intriguing big man stashed over seas and a good to great pick in the worlds deepest draft. This team is cheap, flexible and on a path that is generally considered to be the safest way to build a relevant team in the NBA. That being said the trade deadline is coming up so he could go mental and screw up what is currently a good thing because Brian loves to go all in and swing for the fences. How long can he play the patience game?

    OVERALL: N/A
    who the hell cares? like I said above: this team is built for next year. We have a good coach, some decent rotation players who are young enough to become solid, cap space and friendly contracts. The team is mostly playing hard and smart but are really only reaping Tdot because there is no option to forfeit a season in advance. During games they generally give themselves a chance to win but don't because of a lack of talent and you have to believe that the rental tag on so many guys makes it hard to always think team first. I don't hate anyone on this team but don't love any of them either.

    Leave a comment:


  • CalgaryRapsFan
    replied
    CNNSI has now done their mid-season report card, with the Raptors receiving a C.

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...ml?eref=sircrc

    Leave a comment:


  • CalgaryRapsFan
    replied
    My initial take was that the overall grade given was too low, based on what expectations were coming into this season. I figured the Raptors should have earned about a C, since the record was more or less on par with the average expectation.

    However, after thinking more about it, I think a failing grade (since when did a D become a fail?) is fair, for the following reasons:

    1) Despite Bargnani's improvements, it would be scary if this calf injury becomes a recurring problem for the rest of his career. Also, having him out so long has hindered the development of chemistry between the core players that are expected to be the cornerstone of the franchise moving forward

    2) Most fans and experts agreed that the team's record wouldn't be the defining factor of this season for the Raptors, but rather the individual development of the young players would be. Given the lack of improvement, or even regression, of several young core pieces (ie: DeRozan, Davis, Amir, Bayless), there is reason to view the season as a disappointment for the long-term prospects of the franchise.

    3) For a team looking beyond this season, none of their tradeable assets have been turned into anything useful for the draft/offseason to help further the rebuild (so far). I think it's safe to say that if Barbosa and possibly any of Bayless, Calderon, Amir/Davis or any of the vets (Butler, Carter, Magloire), who aren't perceived to be part of the long-term core of the team, are NOT turned into draft picks, young players or cap space ahead of the draft/offseason, there will be at least some margin of disappointment.


    Obviously there is still lots of time this season to change any/all of these factors but, at the moment, I think a failing grade is fair for this franchise this season.

    Leave a comment:

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