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Larry Bird is VERY open to taking on added salary...Barbosa???

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  • #16
    I would like collison on the raps but idk if the Pacers would do it

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    • #17
      You guys are going to be very dissappointed with Collision. To start with, how does an NBA-caliber point guard average only 5 APG in a simple PnR offense such as the Pacers? Oh, and he also has the added luxury of playing with sharpshooting Paul George and Danny Granger.

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      • #18
        Matt52 wrote: View Post
        Collison is taller than CP3 and Lawson. Same height as Rondo.

        Much lighter than Lawson and just a touch lighter than CP3 and Rondo.
        NBA.com lists Rondo as 26 lbs heavier & Paul as 15 more that Collison. That kind of weight diff. and more so if its muscle weight I think makes a difference going inside/posting. And of course we also have the skill set differences....and I also remember well how he played when CP3 was out so I am surprised he hasnt shown better in Indy. Of course if he had we wouldnt be discussing him now :-)

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        • #19
          You guys are crazy, Calderon is among the best pick and roll guys in the game and I would argue that he is currently the best after Nash and maybe Paul. He only has a year left on his contract. You want to move him for Collison and a second? I might take Collison and a first but come on, the guy only gets 5 assists a game on a team that is way better than the Raps.
          This team needs a great set up guy to succeed: Jose is that guy. Everyone wants to get an all star point but they forget that when this team was in the playoffs and had Bosh, Jose was basically on that level and was snubbed. We put the right guys around him, and Jose will lead us to a title, he is that good.
          "Victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory however long and hard the road may be; for without victory, there is no survival."

          -Churchill

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          • #20
            hateslosing wrote: View Post
            You guys are crazy, Calderon is among the best pick and roll guys in the game and I would argue that he is currently the best after Nash and maybe Paul. He only has a year left on his contract. You want to move him for Collison and a second? I might take Collison and a first but come on, the guy only gets 5 assists a game on a team that is way better than the Raps.
            This team needs a great set up guy to succeed: Jose is that guy. Everyone wants to get an all star point but they forget that when this team was in the playoffs and had Bosh, Jose was basically on that level and was snubbed. We put the right guys around him, and Jose will lead us to a title, he is that good.
            I agree. With how well Calderon is playing right now, coupled with his on-court leadership and calming influence, I wouldn't deal him for anything less than a 1st round pick or a proven young player. For me, as much as I was hoping for the Raps to get Collison last season, I would be disappointed getting him and a 2nd round pick for Calderon.

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            • #21
              hateslosing wrote: View Post
              You guys are crazy, Calderon is among the best pick and roll guys in the game and I would argue that he is currently the best after Nash and maybe Paul. He only has a year left on his contract. You want to move him for Collison and a second? I might take Collison and a first but come on, the guy only gets 5 assists a game on a team that is way better than the Raps.
              This team needs a great set up guy to succeed: Jose is that guy. Everyone wants to get an all star point but they forget that when this team was in the playoffs and had Bosh, Jose was basically on that level and was snubbed. We put the right guys around him, and Jose will lead us to a title, he is that good.
              I agree, but remember this is also a salary dump in the hopes of signing Wilson Chandler. So it would be more like: Calderon for Collison, a pick and Chandler, which to me, is a great deal.

              However, since it seems likely that Denver will re-sign Chandler, I wouldn't do this deal with Indiana unless I was certain Toronto could get Chandler.
              Walking like I'm already there.

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              • #22
                hateslosing wrote: View Post
                You guys are crazy, Calderon is among the best pick and roll guys in the game and I would argue that he is currently the best after Nash and maybe Paul. He only has a year left on his contract. You want to move him for Collison and a second? I might take Collison and a first but come on, the guy only gets 5 assists a game on a team that is way better than the Raps.
                This team needs a great set up guy to succeed: Jose is that guy. Everyone wants to get an all star point but they forget that when this team was in the playoffs and had Bosh, Jose was basically on that level and was snubbed. We put the right guys around him, and Jose will lead us to a title, he is that good.
                You totally completely changed my mind about trading him. I've always loved his game and used him as a valuable trade guy, now I think it would be best to keep him. Problem is his contract hurts us for the future, when we draft, sign, trade for better players.

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                • #23
                  10 000 Hours wrote: View Post
                  I agree, but remember this is also a salary dump in the hopes of signing Wilson Chandler. So it would be more like: Calderon for Collison, a pick and Chandler, which to me, is a great deal.

                  However, since it seems likely that Denver will re-sign Chandler, I wouldn't do this deal with Indiana unless I was certain Toronto could get Chandler.
                  If that scenario took place, that would be great. I think Chandler is staying where he is at though so I wouldn't do it.

                  RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
                  You totally completely changed my mind about trading him. I've always loved his game and used him as a valuable trade guy, now I think it would be best to keep him. Problem is his contract hurts us for the future, when we draft, sign, trade for better players.
                  My thing with Jose is I think he may take less money on his next contract. He only has a year left on his current deal and the only reason we'd need his contract off the books is if we wanted to make more than one big signing or if we were going to pay someone the max. So I say keep him at least another season, let him continue to provide great leadership and passing and hopefully we can resign him for about 8 per year after next season. At worst, he simply walks next year and opens up cap room, which isn't that bad of a situation for us since it doesn't sound like he would bring that anything back that we couldn't just get off of the free agent market. At best he resigns for less and continues to perform at the level he has been for the next decade, leading us to multiple titles .
                  "Victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory however long and hard the road may be; for without victory, there is no survival."

                  -Churchill

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                  • #24
                    What is this recent obsession with young average starter-quality player?

                    First, it was Wilson Chandler who is as average as can be at the starting small forward spot and now Darren Collison. Their historical performance are very consistent year after year and to me, this suggests they are basically finished products and won't likely improve significantly.

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                    • #25
                      Hugmenot wrote: View Post
                      What is this recent obsession with young average starter-quality player?

                      First, it was Wilson Chandler who is as average as can be at the starting small forward spot and now Darren Collison. Their historical performance are very consistent year after year and to me, this suggests they are basically finished products and won't likely improve significantly.
                      Collison may not even be "average"... ;-)

                      But yeah, I'm hoping all this underrating/overrating of players is just a factor of the mid-season balhs + trade deadline excitement and a desire to be involved. I'd be 100% happy if Colangelo did NOTHING at the deadline and stuck with what he has until the summer.

                      This team is being built to make the playoffs next year. This is not about developing 12 under-25 guys in the hopes that they all become keepers and the Raptors make the playoffs when they're all hitting the late-20s. Toronto will be a 6-8 seed next year or Colangelo will die trying. That's my opinion, anyway, and one shared by a lot of folks out there.

                      If that's the case, why would you trade ANYONE this year unless they are bringing back cap space or a talented player who will be here for the next 3-4 years in return? Collison will never make up for the loss of Calderon, and will eat cap. Chandler *might* be the latter, but he also might be no better than James Johnson. Is that worth not only giving up a top-tier game manager in Calderon (which is *exactly* what this team will need next year and the year after as a younger PG develops into that role) but also locking up $30-40M in cap room for the next 4-5 years?
                      Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

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                      • #26
                        No you're right, we should stand pat with what we have. We'll win something eventually!
                        @sweatpantsjer

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                        • #27
                          ceez wrote: View Post
                          No you're right, we should stand pat with what we have. We'll win something eventually!
                          It's not about standing pat. It's about making the right moves at the right time. Now is not the right time, unless there's a sweetheart deal out there. Signing Wilson Chandler for $10M/year, or trading Calderon for Collison and/or cap space (now, vs. next season) is not the right deal, right now.
                          Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

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                          • #28
                            You worried we might not make the playoffs or something?

                            Edit: good lord I don't think anyone want to spend that much on Chandler
                            @sweatpantsjer

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                            • #29
                              ceez wrote: View Post
                              You worried we might not make the playoffs or something?

                              Edit: good lord I don't think anyone want to spend that much on Chandler
                              I'll be surprised if Chandler isn't looking for more than $8M per.

                              I'm not at all worried about making the playoffs. Losing more games this season isn't the issue (although it also shouldn't be the rationale behind any roster move; tanking is hardly a proven team-building method). The issue is how they will lose those games, and what they will be giving up, in terms of player development, in the process.

                              What does Chandler do for this team this season that he wouldn't do for the team if signed this off-season instead? On the one hand, you say he won't command that much cash, but on the other, Toronto has to rush to make a play for him now, in order to beat out all the other teams that will be vying for his services if they wait? Does not compute.

                              Either the guy is some kind of heavily-sought-after superstar wing who must be signed NOW or risk losing him forever (at the expense of giving up the one player on the team who can actually help to facilitate the development of the young players), or he is not.

                              If he is not a guy who is going to be a core part of getting this team into playoff contention, then crafting some trade just to get the cap space to sign him is not a great idea at the moment, in my opinion.
                              Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

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                              • #30
                                jimmie wrote: View Post
                                I'll be surprised if Chandler isn't looking for more than $8M per.

                                I'm not at all worried about making the playoffs. Losing more games this season isn't the issue (although it also shouldn't be the rationale behind any roster move; tanking is hardly a proven team-building method). The issue is how they will lose those games, and what they will be giving up, in terms of player development, in the process.

                                What does Chandler do for this team this season that he wouldn't do for the team if signed this off-season instead? On the one hand, you say he won't command that much cash, but on the other, Toronto has to rush to make a play for him now, in order to beat out all the other teams that will be vying for his services if they wait? Does not compute.

                                Either the guy is some kind of heavily-sought-after superstar wing who must be signed NOW or risk losing him forever (at the expense of giving up the one player on the team who can actually help to facilitate the development of the young players), or he is not.

                                If he is not a guy who is going to be a core part of getting this team into playoff contention, then crafting some trade just to get the cap space to sign him is not a great idea at the moment, in my opinion.
                                He very well could be. The only guy at HoopsWorld.com I take any faith in when it comes to rumours is Alex Kennedy. Bill Ingram is certainly on the bottom of the list so it is with a huge grain of salt I offer this:

                                For their part, the Nuggets are not interested in simply signing Chandler for the rest of this season; they want a multiyear deal starting at roughly $7.5 million. Chandler’s camp is pushing for a deal that pays him through the end of this season and allows him to become an unrestricted free agent in July. They’re even threatening to sit out the rest of this season in order to make that happen, though that is almost certainly an empty threat. Chandler signed in China because he hasn’t managed his money well and needed a quick payday. He’s not about to push his next payday back five months.


                                Source

                                If Denver is willing to do $7.5M per season, then I think we are reaching maximum dollars I'd offer anyways. If If Denver is in fact offering this and Chandler is looking for more than this, I think he is nuts and my interest would end there.

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